StratoJava
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Midi Question re Routing MIDI Output in Sonar
First let me say... I'm a guitar player... not a midi guy by any stretch of the imagination. That said, I've hooked up my old Roland XP-50 and I'm ready to try and record some midi. After looking thru all the relevant manuals, help files, tutorials, I can get my keyboard to work as a controller for the Cakewalk TTS-1 soft synth and select patches for that soft synth. My question is how do I get Sonar to display/select the patches from my own keyboard? It may be considered a dinosaur by now, but I still like some of the sounds in there, and I'd like to be able to access and play them. I've been to Options>Instruments and added my XP-50 (it was actually in the list... I was psyched about that). I can set all the output chanels to it as well. What do I have to do to be able to select the patches that are in my own physical keyboard... not the ones in the soft synth? Also, is the softsynth the ONLY way I can get my keyboard to work in Sonar? Do I need to select a softsynth for output, or is there another way I can do this. Thanks in advance, Neil
post edited by StratoJava - August 11, 05 11:38 AM
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baritone
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RE: Midi Question re Keyboard Patches in Sonar
August 11, 05 2:27 AM
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Look to the left at the midi output of the track you are trying to play, click on the midi out zone, and you should get a choice of options, vsynth or external midi out, so choose midi out. This is well covered in the manual. If you get doubled notes, turn off local control on the keyboard...
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LoopJunkie
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RE: Midi Question re Keyboard Patches in Sonar
August 11, 05 5:28 AM
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Also, is the softsynth the ONLY way I can get my keyboard to work in Sonar? Do I need to select a softsynth for output, or is there another way I can do this. Not at all. 1 - Run MIDI cable 1 from from your keyboard's MIDI out to your PC's MIDI in, and MIDI cable 2 from PC's MIDI out to keyboard's MIDI in. Connect the Line outs of your keyboard to your monitoring path ([mixer]->amp->speakers) 2 - Sonar needs to recognize your MIDI interface and you have to make sure you have the correct MIDI in/out selected in -> Options->MIDI Devices. 3 - You need an *.ins file with the instrument definitions (bank/patch/controller names) for your keyboard. Go to ->Options->Instruments and assign the definitions to the MIDI port/channels you want to use with your keyboard, 4 - Now point a new MIDI track to the port/channel to which you have assigned the instrument definitions, assign a channel, and bank/patch names should be available and correct in the dropdown lists. 5 - Arm that track and record some MIDI stuff from your keyboard. You hear it on your monitors and see the MIDI recorded on the track. 6 - Playback. You should hear the same stuff. Change the patch in the track parameters - you should hear the recording played with a different patch.
loop 
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StratoJava
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RE: Midi Question re Routing Output
August 11, 05 11:32 AM
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Loop, Thanks for your clear response! I'm 90% there... just having a brain cramp w/ how to assign the output so I can hear what I play. I've got the XP set up as an instrument in Sonar and when I select the channel the banks and patches are all good to go. I can see MIDI being recorded on the track but I can't hear a damn thing. In step 1, I've connected the MIDI cables exactly as you say. The same way it's shown in the manual and help files... 2 MIDI cables each connected from the others IN/OUT respectively. If I connect a 1/4" output from the keyboard to an audio input on the firepod and record it in Sonar, doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a MIDI connection? I was under the impression that with the MIDI connection I should be able to hear the result in Sonar. I think I'm good on steps 2-6. In Options>MIDI Devices it shows Firepod MIDI IN and Firepod MIDI OUT respectively. My only choices for output on the MIDI track are: 1 - Presonus Firepod MIDI-Out (isn't this going back to the keyboard tho?) 2 - Cakewalk TTS-1 New Drum Map Drum Map Manager I want to be able to playback, change patches, mix and adjust the levels in Sonar. I've gotta be missing something that should be obvious were I not a MIDIOT... but its driving me nuts at the moment. Thanks again! Neil
post edited by StratoJava - August 11, 05 12:03 AM
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ohhey
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RE: Midi Question re Routing Output
August 11, 05 12:18 AM
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ORIGINAL: StratoJava
Loop,
Thanks for your clear response! I'm 90% there... just having a brain cramp w/ how to assign the output so I can hear what I play.
I've got the XP set up as an instrument in Sonar and when I select the channel the banks and patches are all good to go. I can see MIDI being recorded on the track but I can't hear a damn thing.
In step 1, I've connected the MIDI cables exactly as you say. The same way it's shown in the manual and help files... 2 MIDI cables each connected from the others IN/OUT respectively. If I connect a 1/4" output from the keyboard to an audio input on the firepod and record it in Sonar, doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a MIDI connection? I was under the impression that with the MIDI connection I should be able to hear the result in Sonar.
I think I'm good on steps 2-6. In Options>MIDI Devices it shows Firepod MIDI IN and Firepod MIDI OUT respectively.
My only choices for output on the MIDI track are:
1 - Presonus Firepod MIDI-Out (isn't this going back to the keyboard tho?)
2 - Cakewalk TTS-1
New Drum Map
Drum Map Manager
I want to be able to playback, change patches, mix and adjust the levels in Sonar. I've gotta be missing something that should be obvious were I not a MIDIOT... but its driving me nuts at the moment.
Thanks again!
Neil
Are you wanting to use the sounds from XP-50 or the sounds from the TTs-1 ? The MIDI can be sent to either one. But understand that the sound of the XP-50 will not come out of Sonar untill you record it as audio tracks. If you have a mixer or your sound card has a software mixer to montior inputs you could use that to hear what you are doing as you play but the XP-50 is an external device so there is no way for the sound to get into Sonar till you connect the audio outs of the XP-50 to your sound card and either setup monitoring through your sound cards mixer or add an audio track in Sonar and arm it for record with input monitoring on.
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lfm
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RE: Midi Question re Routing Output
August 11, 05 12:54 AM
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ORIGINAL: StratoJava
Thanks for your clear response! I'm 90% there... just having a brain cramp w/ how to assign the output so I can hear what I play.
You can just connect the synth with two audio cables to soundcard and open two audiotracks(or one stereotrack if your soundcard driver has this option) with the monitor function on, to listen to the external synth itself. This while recording and everything. (If happy taking mono from synth, one cable is enough). The rest is as already mentioned with the midi stuff. One of the tutorials to convert midi to audio will explain how to get a permanent audiotrack from you miditrack, using an external synth. Or you can actually do it at mixdown directly, by doing mixdown in realtime. Then the miditrack will be played and audioinputs recorded. But I think it's easier to do that as a separate process before final mixdown.
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StratoJava
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RE: Midi Question re Routing Output
August 11, 05 1:00 PM
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Lightbulb moment...  Loop - I have to say you were absolutely right. It just seemed counter-intuitive to me to connect a line out from the keyboard to the firepod... but that does the trick exactly as you say. I can change patches... and I hear the difference... ahhh, that's nice :) Frank - I'm wanting to use the sounds in the XP-50 itself. With this setup now at least I can hear what I play... which is important for a guitar player after all lol. Maybe you can still help clarify something for me tho. I want to record onto a MIDI track first... so I have 'MIDI flexibility', change patches, velocities etc... and then I need to take that MIDI track and send it to an Audio track ultimately for mixing etc. Doing it this way (instead of just recording from a 1/4" jack lets say) should yield greater fidelity/ less noise/ better audio results no? I need to know this because otherwise I would have been done recording hours ago LOL. Thanks guys! Neil
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StratoJava
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RE: Midi Question re Routing Output
August 11, 05 1:07 PM
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lfm
Thanks, that's exactly where I'm at... I'll look into converting the MIDI to audio next.
I would think this would be a pretty common task and one that Sonar makes pretty clear and straightforward... I hope. I'll get this yet :)
Neil
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ohhey
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RE: Midi Question re Routing Output
August 11, 05 1:24 PM
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ORIGINAL: StratoJava
Lightbulb moment...
Loop -
I have to say you were absolutely right. It just seemed counter-intuitive to me to connect a line out from the keyboard to the firepod... but that does the trick exactly as you say. I can change patches... and I hear the difference... ahhh, that's nice :)
Frank -
I'm wanting to use the sounds in the XP-50 itself. With this setup now at least I can hear what I play... which is important for a guitar player after all lol. Maybe you can still help clarify something for me tho. I want to record onto a MIDI track first... so I have 'MIDI flexibility', change patches, velocities etc... and then I need to take that MIDI track and send it to an Audio track ultimately for mixing etc. Doing it this way (instead of just recording from a 1/4" jack lets say) should yield greater fidelity/ less noise/ better audio results no? I need to know this because otherwise I would have been done recording hours ago LOL.
Thanks guys!
Neil
I don't know what you mean by ..take that MIDI track and send it to a Audio track.. You still have to hook the output of the XP-50 to the sound card. All MIDI does it press the keys for you, it doesn't make any sound. What I do is work with the MIDI track till I get the performance I want and then record that to an audio track that will be used in the final mix. Then I archive the MIDI track and move on to the next track I need. If at some point I decide I want to chance that performance I can always un-archive the midi track, edit it and use it to drive the synth or sound module to re record the audio track. The goal is to have only Audio tracks active in Sonar during mixdown. This is also good in case synth I'm using is not available in the future, I at least have the tracks in audio so the song is complete.
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StratoJava
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RE: Midi Question re Routing Output
August 11, 05 4:49 PM
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Thanks Frank,
Yeah... I understand now... it just took me a lil bit lol. I had originally thought that the MIDI cables alone were capable of getting the sound into Sonar... I know better now. The manual refers to converting MIDI to audio (p.429 I think) and that really had me confused. I now understand that that's something you do only w/ software synths w/in Sonar... not w/ an outboard MIDI keyboard.
It's too bad the XP-50 doesn't have spdf connectors, because then I would have been able to go straight digital audio into the Firepod, and I wouldn't be taking any mic/line inputs away from it. I don't know if I can justify buying a new keyboard just because of that... its not like I'm a keyboard player lol. If it becomes a nuisance tho, I'll ebay it and pick up a hopefully not too expensive keyboard w/ the spdf connector.
Take care,
Neil
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LoopJunkie
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RE: Midi Question re Routing Output
August 11, 05 5:45 PM
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It's too bad the XP-50 doesn't have spdf connectors, because then I would have been able to go straight digital audio into the Firepod, and I wouldn't be taking any mic/line inputs away from it. I don't know if I can justify buying a new keyboard just because of that... its not like I'm a keyboard player lol. If it becomes a nuisance tho, I'll ebay it and pick up a hopefully not too expensive keyboard w/ the spdf connector. First figure out your priorities: is it a connector type or the sound you need to make music? I thought you liked your XP-50 patches.... If it's about staying digital as much as possible - go soft synth, there are some incredible units out there, and just get any keyboard controller. Don't overestimate the digital aspect, though: if you have good converters/soundcard and cables you probably won't notice a difference.
loop
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