Okay, I need some help

What you overlooked was buying a Recording Audio Interface.

but for now go to options\audio.
turn your latency down to below 10ms, anything above that is too slow for keyboard/softsynth live performance.

also make sure you are using no high latency fx. best to turn them all off if you are not sure.

Good luck and welcome

Welcome to the 21st century much has changed since your time. However, you have discovered one of the problems that STILL has not been solved. Latency is a fact of life for any DAW no matter how powerful or well tuned it is.

There is no work around for the softsynth latency problem other then using a “stand in” sound from a hardware device until you get the MIDI recorded. Then you can re-assign that track to the software synth and hear what it sounds like with the song. With some sound card drivers you can get latency down fairly low at the start of the project with the computer is not very busy but in most cases you have to bump it back up later to do the full mix with all the plugins and stuff eating up CPU.

Here is what I do. When I want a MIDI track of a B3 organ lets say, I use one of the organ sounds in my keyboard to monitor with. You can do this with a hardware mixer or with a sound card that has a zero latency software mixer (more on this later). The B3 sound in my keyboard is not very realistic but when I’m done composing the MIDI track I can then assign the output of that MIDI track in Sonar to the software B3 that I’ve added to my synth rack. Now I get all the realistic sound of a B3 and can adjust it to fit the song using the MIDI track to drive it. This is no latency this way. Then when I have it just perfect I bounce that (MIDI track + Synth Track selected) to a stereo audio track and it’s ready for the mix. I can then archive the MIDI track and remove the softsynth so it doesn’t eat up CPU. I can then do the same thing with the next instrument I need in the mix. In the end I have all audio tracks just like if I had recorded real instruments for the final mix. And I have all my MIDI tracks archived in case I need to lay down a new audio track using a different sound or setting. You do the same thing with external sound modules you just have to record them in real time rather then doing a fast bounce.

Point number 2. You need a more professional sound card for sure. If nothing else get a cheap M-Audio delta series. It will have a software mixer to monitor with and will give you MUCH better sound for your audio tracks and to mix with. Many good sound cards come with such a software mixer now. What it lets you do is send a copy of any input on the sound card (like an Aux send) to any output on the sound card blended with what Sonar is playing. This happens on the card so there is no latency through the driver, the software mixer just lets you control it. This is NOT console view in Sonar, it’s another program that comes with the sound card driver. By using this mixer to do your monitor mix (mic, hardware synth, etc) you can choose not the use input monitoring in Sonar so latency is not an issue. This doesn’t solve the softsynth latency problem just for input to the sound card.

Any questions ?

You have plenty of power there. Drivers may be an issue. At any rate, still go to Options > Audio. If the latency slider is moveable with the mouse, drag it down to below 10ms as was suggested.

If the slider is grayed out but you have a button that says ASIO Panel, click that and pick a smaller buffer size. It should tell you somewhere what latency the setting will give you.

If the slider is grayed out and there is no ASIO Panel button, click on the tab that says Drivers and see what you have. If you have a WMD or ASIO driver available, pick one and work from there. You will probably have to restart Sonar first.

Maybe someone who has worked with that sound device will join in.

Let us know how you are doing.

ORIGINAL: Jaybee

Okay. Here's where I am now. I can't reduce the latency below 92 ms. However, I have to use the MME drivers. Whenever I switch to the WDM drivers I get stutters and repeated notes and other assorted noise with the softsynths. Buffers are set at 2.
So, I guess, for now, I'll have to use the outboard synths for recording and switch to the softsynths after I get the MIDI data correct. Then, I can do the bounce tracks thing and archive after each track is set until I'm ready for the final mix. Am I on a track which will be successful for now?
....

That's it Jerry... that's how it's done. It's a bit of trouble having to switch them and it can be hard to get the performance just right if the decay differs (piano sounds for example) but it's the best we can do for now. The good news is you get the full sound quality of the software synth direct into your project so the quality of your sound card doesn't hurt it. As soon as you get a better card you will be able to hear all those tracks in full glory because they are first generation quality bounced direct to a clip file.

However, if you are recording 16bit now the tracks will only be 16bit. So when you get a good card you will want to redo those projects as 24bit before you add any audio tracks. To do this you will need to create a new 24bit project (you will be able to because of the new sound card driver) and then open the existing 16bit projects and copy only the midi tracks into the 24bit new project. Then add the software synths and do all your bounces again into 24bit tracks. Now you have a new all 24bit project to continue building the song in and all new audio tracks recorded into that project will be 24bit.

The reason you would want to do that is because 24bit recording is much better sounding then 16bit. The sample rate is not as big a deal but the 24bit stuff is very smooth and lifelike with no zipper noise as it decays to silence. Very nice. As soon as you make the jump to 24bit you will no longer hate digital recording.

ORIGINAL: Jaybee

Frank,
What a great post of advice. You are indeed a great source of help. I've been researching some audio cards. I am kinda' looking at an M-audio Delta 1010LT. I have found it new at a really good price on eBay. Is this something I would be happy with? My only real concern at this point is, if I get this, how do I disable the onboard audio? The onboard audio is 5.1 capable. The only M-audio surround cards are the Revolution but they don't look to be designed for the musical market but more for the gamers. I'm definitely not going there.
Again, I appreciate your help.

The 1010LT is a good deal for the money if you need all those inputs. If you don't go for the Audiophile 192, it has balanced inputs so you will get less noise if your preamp has balanced outs. If you go with the 1010LT try to find some cables with a very heavy shield. Car stereo places have them for folks who have amps in the car, they work the best at keeping humm and buzz down.

if you switch from MME to WDM or ASIO, make sure you re-run the Wave Profiler each time or it will do wierd stuttering and what-not.

ORIGINAL: Jaybee

If you don't go for the Audiophile 192, it has balanced inputs so you will get less noise if your preamp has balanced outs.

Frank,
I took your advice and bought the Audiophile 192. Got it new (factory box) on eBay for $40 off MSRP and free shipping. When it comes in I'll be asking you how to set it up without messing up my onboard card. Thanks again - you've been a great help.

If you use WDM you should have no problems because both cards will show up and you can simply de-select the audio I/O of the old one in the Sonar audio options (you can leave the MIDI I/O if you want it won't hurt anything). The reason is so you can start working at 24bit as a default and if any one the old cards I/Os are selected it won't let you because all cards have to be able to do 24bit and the default sample rate you select. MIDI is a different driver and you can have as many as you want even if they are on the old card.

However, if your existing card has an ASIO driver installed and you try to use ASIO on the new one you will have to go to device manager in Windows and disable the old one till you get the new one set up in Sonar. Then you can go back and enable the old one for Windows sounds and stuff.

If you get stuck just disable the old one in device manager, close Sonar, delete the aud.ini file in the Sonar program folder and restart Sonar. With the aud.ini file gone Sonar will act like a new install and go out and look for sound card drivers. Since the old one is disabled at that time it will only find the Audiophile 192 driver and set it's self to use it. After Sonar has re-created the aud.ini automatically it will not try to look for cards again so it's safe to go back to device manager and turn on the old card. Any time you need to re-profile the Audiophile 192 just remember to disable the old one before you run the profiler in Sonar.