wst3
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RE: B.I.A.B. vs Jammer, vs? for Pop/Arrangements?
2009/03/28 08:52:13
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ORIGINAL: retroz
<snippity>create some chords, add in Trilogy, BFD, real guitar, vocals, EWQLSO, or VSL and you will hardly be laughed out of productions houses, especially for television composer, they are lucky to make $5000 grand a week let alone the time it would take to bring in (both time and budgets) session players and/or orchestrations. TV requires quick turn around as do ADD houses. I scored a few trailers using a synth and Acid 4.0 or I think 3.0. So anything is possible in the right hands......
That last sentence really sums it up nicely... anything is possible, but it requires that one really "get inside" the tools that they use. I have a friend that still uses an old 360 Systems sampler for certain tasks, solo sax is one of them. If you just plinked on the keys you'd be hard pressed to believe this was a professional instrument, if you heard one of his tracks you'd be hard pressed to believe it wasn't a live player! While I do find some of the low end software synthesizers to sound, well, weak, I'll never be shocked to find folks using them effectively. The TTS-1 is a great example, I never use it anymore as I find it too limiting. Others here have demonstrated just the opposite. I have not used BIAB, Jammer, or any of the Ntonyx tools in several years now, they all made me batty. I'm encouraged to see praise for at least two of them, and I will have to give the demos another try. The last algorithmic composer I used that I absolutely loved was "M", but it is only available on the Mac these days, I used it on an Amiga. Cycling 74 could port it to windows, but they don't perceive that there is much of a market for it. ORIGINAL: retroz
My point was wondering the differences. In addition, I would also like some sort of program or chord book for guitar that talks about alternative chords (inversions, progressions) as I understand it in piano (theory.harmony.counterpoint) and although guitar is my main instrument, I do not know TAB reading very well. So am also looking for something simple that would, (for example) if I have a song in "G" major, and use the I, V, IV (which is what everyone does G, D, C), lets says instead of "D" I could replace it with an alternative voicing that stays in the range of "D" and flows with the bassline.....
Any books or internet sources available? Think George Harrison and how well he would compliment, Paul and John's simple guitar structures.
The theory is the same... e.g. you can often substitute a relative minor (I often play an Em when others are playing G just to see their faces<G>!) Similarly a relative major 6 makes a nice sub for a minor 7 - and these are you probably ran across in your theory training. The thing that gets me is that chord substitution is largely defined by musical style, changes that might work in be-bop won't work in swing. So a big part of understanding chord substitution is learning the rules for each genre. Sadly I've yet to find a book that really covers the topic from A to Z. You can find genre specific books, especially for guitar, but nothing really general. Or at least I haven't<G>!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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kwgm
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RE: B.I.A.B. vs Jammer, vs? for Pop/Arrangements?
2009/03/28 17:26:25
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Yes, Bill, you're right. Maybe looking specifically for a guitar book isn't the right way to go about this (guitar is such an awful way to understand theory, anyway, because of the six strings). One has a disadvantage not knowing the keyboard when undertaking the study of music theory.
Piston's early chapters in "Harmony," on Harmonic Progression, Scales, Tonality, Modality, Harmony, Figured Bass (well, maybe not Figured Bass), are as relevant to today's pop music writers as they were to the music majors of the 1940's.
Piston was an academic and wrote for young aspiring academicians. Fortunately, today's publishers have catalogues full of music theory and music instruction books on theory by the cart load -- you can generally find a harmony instruction style book in many of today's relevant idioms if you look hard enough. Try shops like Aebersold.com, who carries much more than jazz play-along these days if you're interested. Even Berklee has branched beyond jazz to cover other genres and techniques.
And no, there won't be one, single book -- learning is a lifelong habit. I am preparing to move, and I'm paying the price of my habits -- packing and schleping my book collection until I get resettled, whatever that looks like. But get in the habit of reviewing and buying books that will be useful for a lifetime. That means spending some time with a book before you purchase, and it's a damn shame we don't have the book store, "brick and mortar" like we once did, were a person like myself could wile away the hours choosing between Mehegan or Andy LaVerne might be a bit more appropriate for my particular improvisational needs that day. (It's also nice to live in a town like San Francisco because of neighborhoods like Clement St. with its fascinating used book stores (I bought a fair copy of Piston's Counterpoint at Green Apple Book), and dusty cafes designed for quiet contemplation or thoughtful discourse with a total stranger, or strange character -- either.
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Roflcopter
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RE: B.I.A.B. vs Jammer, vs? for Pop/Arrangements?
2009/03/28 18:05:20
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While I do find some of the low end software synthesizers to sound, well, weak, I'll never be shocked to find folks using them effectively. The TTS-1 is a great example, I never use it anymore as I find it too limiting. Others here have demonstrated just the opposite. I think it's a strange mixture of making do with what you have (or understand), while still having an enormous drive to tinker with something until you like the result. I could do a whole track in TTS-1 and get away with it, but it would take some doing. I totally dived into the whole style structure in BiaB2007, I can make it more or less do what I want. Other parts I hardly ever look at. Stlye tweaks, reharmonizing, drums, a basic track. That's what such a program should excel at, for me. Not 'do it all for me'. Just give me umpteen variations on that idea, fast, so I can A/Z the results on the fly, and pick something that sounds promising, for further tweaking elsewhere. It's a limited program if you are completely dependent on it, but if you dive into what makes those styles tick, you're in heaven.
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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Snehankur
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Re: RE: B.I.A.B. vs Jammer, vs? for Pop/Arrangements?
2015/12/09 04:50:04
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mudgel
I find Jammer V6 (Latest) the best. I have used it since V2 and it is indispensible when it coms to fleshing out a piece and giving me ideas for accompaniament. when I'm done I export to MIDI and import into Sonar and go from there to really tweak it.
I am a hobbiest so its just fun for me but I can see how a serious composer could use this for speeding up the arrangement process especially if you can't play everything and or don't have access to a bunch of other live musicians.
regards,
Mike V
Hi Mike... Jammer is still available? there site is down and going for a facelift ! I had a demo so can't do much with it. [referring a decade old quote] Thanks SG
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mudgel
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Re: RE: B.I.A.B. vs Jammer, vs? for Pop/Arrangements?
2015/12/11 18:06:57
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Yep the site still sells Jammer and the various packs but despite efforts to contact the developer it's been a few years since he's responded to any of my messages. Last word was he was still developing Jammer.
Last request I had for him was to make a 64 bit version of the Jammer plugin but history shows he didn't do it.
I haven't used it in years.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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jbow
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Re: RE: B.I.A.B. vs Jammer, vs? for Pop/Arrangements?
2015/12/11 19:05:00
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I haven't seen Jammer... going to take a look. I've been going back and forth on getting a Digitech TRIO pedal so I can sit in the comfort of my chair or out on the deck, play and get ideas with the help.. it uses BIAB. BIAB puts me off because of the price. I know I could get a cheaper version but then I would constantly be wanting to upgrade it, besides there is the idea of being away from the DAW... that is why I think about the TRIO before BIAB. Going to look at Jammer now... will BIAB or Jammer work with Bluetooth and a Sonos or a Line6 Amplify? That would be good too and offer other options. IDK
J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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Snehankur
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Re: RE: B.I.A.B. vs Jammer, vs? for Pop/Arrangements?
2015/12/12 03:07:35
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You can download the trial of Jammer 6. I had downloaded long time back. You cannot save though but you can record to MIDI Track and then use.
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bapu
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Re: RE: B.I.A.B. vs Jammer, vs? for Pop/Arrangements?
2015/12/14 12:21:45
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jbow
I haven't seen Jammer... going to take a look. I've been going back and forth on getting a Digitech TRIO pedal so I can sit in the comfort of my chair or out on the deck, play and get ideas with the help.. it uses BIAB. BIAB puts me off because of the price. I know I could get a cheaper version but then I would constantly be wanting to upgrade it, besides there is the idea of being away from the DAW... that is why I think about the TRIO before BIAB. Going to look at Jammer now... will BIAB or Jammer work with Bluetooth and a Sonos or a Line6 Amplify? That would be good too and offer other options. IDK
J
Jammer has not had any development i quite a few years. In fact over this weekend their site was down (may still be IDK).
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