[Fixed] Turning snap on/off in PRV, only possible with mouse click

In pre X3 golbal snap has always been exactly that. GLOBAL. When turning global snap off, nothing snapped anywhere in Sonar. I often used this in PRV when nudging notes back and forth and changing note lengths to give the performance the right feel.
 
Turning off global snap in X3 does NOT however stop the notes in PRV from snapping. The snap icons react exactly as in X2 and get greyed out even though the notes still snap to the (now greyed out) value set in PRV..
I sent a problem repport to Cakewalk and described the behaviour. A few days later I got this mail:
 

Cakewalk Problem Reporter
Subject: CWBRN-20814, Turning off global snap still snaps notes in piano roll
 
Hello Samuel Lidström,
The status of your problem report has updated to "As Intended" with the following notes:
The behavior you are describing is as intended and is not an error in the application.
If you need assistance with a feature please contact our support team at....

 
When I got this mail I thought "Ah.. Okay.. Then maybe there's a separate shortcut to turn off the snap in PRV.." ..I searched for this in preferences but came to the conclusion that there's not a shortcut for this anywhere and I couldn't find a function for this to bind a key to either..
 
How can the intention be that the global snap shouldn't really be global and that you have to use the mouse to turn off snap in PRV!? The word workflow is a word Cakewalk uses a lot now a days.. How does workflow benefin from this intended change??
 
I couldn't find anything searching the online user manual either, but I really really hope I'm just missing something here..

'n' works here as well.

Loptec
In pre X3 golbal snap has always been exactly that. GLOBAL. When turning global snap off, nothing snapped anywhere in Sonar. I often used this in PRV when nudging notes back and forth and changing note lengths to give the performance the right feel.
 
Turning off global snap in X3 does NOT however stop the notes in PRV from snapping. The snap icons react exactly as in X2 and get greyed out even though the notes still snap to the (now greyed out) value set in PRV..
I sent a problem repport to Cakewalk and described the behaviour. A few days later I got this mail:
 

The PRV snap is independent from global snap. The is helpful for users who need very specific snap settings for the PRV exclusively.  For most editing jobs the follow settings will likely work best for you based on the information you gave.
 
- Set PRV to follow snap setting (PRV | View | Grid Resolution)
- Set the global snap to smart snap (Right-Click the drop down)
- I always like to enable grid lines in the PRV because this will display the current snap settings 
 
Now for most edits based on your zoom level you'll get different snap resolutions. Closer for more surgical edits and further for rough or large edits. This works for a lot of things but of course not everything...
 
Another way to control snap is to use the secondary global snap setting by holding the [N] key. This by default snaps to 1 sample but could be set to anything. This is handy for making edits that are not the most common. After releasing the [N] key the snap module will automatically return to the previous settings.
 
If you feel that having a keybinding for the PRV specific snap would be helpful I encourage you to submit a feature request to the link below.
http://www.cakewalk.com/support/contact/featurerequest.aspx 

Lance Riley [Cakewalk]

Loptec
In pre X3 golbal snap has always been exactly that. GLOBAL. When turning global snap off, nothing snapped anywhere in Sonar. I often used this in PRV when nudging notes back and forth and changing note lengths to give the performance the right feel.
 
Turning off global snap in X3 does NOT however stop the notes in PRV from snapping. The snap icons react exactly as in X2 and get greyed out even though the notes still snap to the (now greyed out) value set in PRV..
I sent a problem repport to Cakewalk and described the behaviour. A few days later I got this mail:
 

The PRV snap is independent from global snap. The is helpful for users who need very specific snap settings for the PRV exclusively.  For most editing jobs the follow settings will likely work best for you based on the information you gave.
 
- Set PRV to follow snap setting (PRV | View | Grid Resolution)
- Set the global snap to smart snap (Right-Click the drop down)
- I always like to enable grid lines in the PRV because this will display the current snap settings 
 
Now for most edits based on your zoom level you'll get different snap resolutions. Closer for more surgical edits and further for rough or large edits. This works for a lot of things but of course not everything...
 
Another way to control snap is to use the secondary global snap setting by holding the [N] key. This by default snaps to 1 sample but could be set to anything. This is handy for making edits that are not the most common. After releasing the [N] key the snap module will automatically return to the previous settings.
 
If you feel that having a keybinding for the PRV specific snap would be helpful I encourage you to submit a feature request to the link below.
http://www.cakewalk.com/support/contact/featurerequest.aspx 

Thanks, Lance Riley for replying!
 
Yeah, I know the individual snap setting in Piano Roll View is independent from global snap in the sense that the resolution can be set to a different value. I use this all the time, often editing notes in PRV with 16th note resolution and having the global snap resolution set to one bar.
 
I'm a MIDI-editor nerd and often wants to turn off the snap setting in Piano Roll View to be able to just slightly move notes and change the lengths of them to get the "right feel" to the performance (as I described in my first post).
 
In X2 this was possible with the 'n'-key, because this turned off all snap in Sonar. And I really see no reason why 'n' shouldn't turn off all snap in Sonar. Why would anyone hit 'n' to turn off global snap just to continue wanting to edit notes with snap on in PRV?
 
My big big issue here really is just this: I want to be able to turn off snap in Piano Roll View with a shortcut, just as I could do in X2, but I can't :/ ... Editing notes in pianoroll is a huge part of how I work in Sonar and having to use the mouse to hit that independent snap setting icon in PRV every time I want to move notes freely is really time consuming..
 
What I really would want isn't ANOTHER shortcut to turn off snap in PRV .. 'n' is a great shortcut. Why can't 'n' just work as it has always done; to turn off snap all together?? =/
What was wrong with this behaviour in the first place?

I think the OP is only concerned about the On/Off status. Everything else pretty much works as advertised except for Grid Follows Snap not updating dynamically, which goes back a ways.

Loptec
I'm amazed that you're the only one that seems to understand this, even though it's in this thread's headline:

 
Well, it's not amazing that I didn't understand your post correctly but it IS amazing the baker didn't. :-)
 
I've never had the independent PRV snap resolution activated because I set 1/16 to the primary snap and Whole to the secondary snap, and this combination can achive most of what I want to do. However, reading your post I realized I should probably have the feature activated because I mostly move clips by measure in the TV and work on the 1/16 grid resolution in the PRV.
 
Since the bug won't be fixed soon, I suggest that you try using the num pad to nudge notes left and right. Nudge works without turning off the global snap, so you won't have to hit "n" anymore.
 
 

Yes, PRV snap resolution settings are bindable, but not Enable/Disable or MIDI landmarks or Markers.

Exactly.

Loptec
Doing this I found another bug(?).. :P (a very small one though, but anyway..)
The function PRV Snap 1/128 Note doesn't really give you this resolution. It gives you 1/64 triplets. .. I'm guessing it's as intended though, so I'll let it be..

 
I'm not seeing that. 1/128 gives 32 divisions per quarter as expected, vs. 24 for 64th trips.

Okay I misunderstood. I thought you were saying selecting 128th in drop-down was giving you 64 triplet resolution. I can see how the keybindings might be indexed incorrectly, since they omitted the listing for 64th trips.

You don't find the num pad nudge solution very helpful? I think nudging 10 ticks or so left or right will "give the performance the right feel."

Lance Riley [Cakewalk]
 
- Set PRV to follow snap setting (PRV | View | Grid Resolution)
- Set the global snap to smart snap (Right-Click the drop down)

 
Nice tip. I found my problem which was not seeing the PRV snap setting at the far top right.

I agree that this should be fixed, but what I don't understand is how it's too much trouble to click the PRV snap on/off with a mouse if you're moving notes around the piano roll with a mouse anyway. Sure a key binding would be great for this but I can't see its absence as being too much of a productivity drain. Maybe I'm alone in not minding moving the mouse much (phew!)

Keni

sharke
I agree that this should be fixed, but what I don't understand is how it's too much trouble to click the PRV snap on/off with a mouse if you're moving notes around the piano roll with a mouse anyway. Sure a key binding would be great for this but I can't see its absence as being too much of a productivity drain. Maybe I'm alone in not minding moving the mouse much (phew!)

Or you must play much better and not need as much editing... ;-)
 
No, seriously, when I'm doing a lot of editing, the difference between a key click and a mouse move is a lot of redundancy... it gets old very fast...
 
It used to be a separate value for PRV, but it got toggled by the global N... then we lost having separate values for PRV and the Clips Pane... finally got it back but it's been fraught with difficulties ever since... Sometimes it won't turn on/off and I must enable/disable global to get the PRV-snap to toggle... sometimes the grid doesn't follow the PRV snap setting and I must dance around with toggling both global and PRV snap before I get the right resolution on my screen...
 
I tried working with smart grid a few times and it's never given me the resolution snap I want at the zoom I want... So I can't use it... Though it would be tedious, maybe (and this is a big maybe) if users could set their own smart-snap values (linked to particular zoom ranges) it might work better, but as you see I question that as well...
 
I think the easiest thing would simply be to tie PRV snap to a shortcut (or at least allow it to be assigned such by the user)... I'm sure the other little bugs will disappear eventually.... Unless of course we get another face lift before then... :-)
 
Keni
 

Believe me I play terribly...I think my workflow must be a little different. I usually play a part, edit out any bum notes, then quantize to 95% or so (sometimes on a note by note basis). I might then change some note positions with snap-by turned on, then I turn snap off and do any fine "feel" tuning in one final pass. So I guess I'm not switching in and out of snap as much as you. Everyone has their own workflow however, and I guess it's the job of the program to cater to all of them.