the wildman
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/24 14:26:01
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TraceyStudios
An interesting previous post on the intel vs. amp:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2660354
Yes I just looked at the link to that. This is from that thread: I had a singel core AMD machine dedicated as a DAW, used it for 7 years with sonar 5, Woekwd great. decided to upgrade to x1 about 6 months ago so bought a new amd 6 core machine. It is working perfectly. The only time I have dropouts is when I am mixing and have a TON of stuff going on (effects etc). I can run a lot of efects etc (and I mean A LOT!!) before any dropouts happen. When I mix I use a high buffer size and have very little issues with it. I am not sure but I beleive the 64 bit allows to use more RAM. Overall X1 is really stable on my machine. Can't tell you much about the intel, but I'm sure they are good also. Tha same machine I have with the Intel chip was $100+ more.
This guy used X1 and it was great. Now tis guy uses X2 and it is suddenly not great.
That guy? Traceystudios
Hey mate, do you see the point here. X2 can screw up your pc.
I had the exact same eperience as you. Random bsod, and other crashes and major probs running X2.
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Paul P
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/24 14:47:26
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wildman, you wouldn't happen to have an amd machine would you ? :-)
It seems that with each new version/patch some systems fall by the wayside. Over the long run I could see this happening from new functionality no longer being supported by older equipment, but there has to be something else going on. It's as if our systems are all teetering on the edge of a cliff and when a new patch comes along that requires 1% more throughput some of our systems fall off.
Either that or the software is so full of bugs that certain combinations of hardware activate different sets of them, leading or not to disaster.
It makes intalling a patch or upgrade a pretty scary enterprise. And you can't even sit back and wait to see what happens to others. They may be fine but your system ends up being one of the unlucky ones.
I wouldn't mind hearing from one of Sonar's developers as to what they think is the cause of instability suddenly raising its ugly head. Maybe it's Windows, for all I know.
This kind of computer problems can keep me awake at night for days and days. Hope I'm not destined to be hit by the ghost any time soon.
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the wildman
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/24 15:14:17
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Paul P
wildman, you wouldn't happen to have an amd machine would you ? :-)
It seems that with each new version/patch some systems fall by the wayside. Over the long run I could see this happening from new functionality no longer being supported by older equipment, but there has to be something else going on. It's as if our systems are all teetering on the edge of a cliff and when a new patch comes along that requires 1% more throughput some of our systems fall off.
Either that or the software is so full of bugs that certain combinations of hardware activate different sets of them, leading or not to disaster.
It makes intalling a patch or upgrade a pretty scary enterprise. And you can't even sit back and wait to see what happens to others. They may be fine but your system ends up being one of the unlucky ones.
I wouldn't mind hearing from one of Sonar's developers as to what they think is the cause of instability suddenly raising its ugly head. Maybe it's Windows, for all I know.
This kind of computer problems can keep me awake at night for days and days. Hope I'm not destined to be hit by the ghost any time soon.
Yes I did have an AMD machine, but it was scrapped when X2 killed it. I could have rebuilt it AGAIN but decided it would be pointless, having already done that. I went the Intel i7 route. All ok with X2 there now although had to get the config right to get good results. Just need the bugs fixing. I am convinced tha X2 is the culprit as too many people apart from myself have experienced too many issues with X2. Again I know that others have negated such experiences as "more negative comments" but hey, people have ditched Sonar as a result of the problems! I nearly did as well, but for my Intel machine working out ok. Folks are not making this stuff up! Their issues are real. I never had any probs with cakewalk up until and inc. X1, and I have have had cakewalk since it was on floppy! X2 is great when it works, but the bugs need to ironed out. We need NO more new features, rather we need what we have to work correctly and be stable for everyone. I hope X2b sorts it out properly, and pronto! (For instance, why does the Dock not resize when you undock an item. This bug got introduced with X2a, it never did i in X2) I would not consider upgrading again in the future untill X2 runs perfectly, as I have had my fingers burnt with this. I have spent more time 'fixing' the pc than making music.
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chuckebaby
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/24 16:09:29
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the wildman
Paul P
wildman, you wouldn't happen to have an amd machine would you ? :-)
It seems that with each new version/patch some systems fall by the wayside. Over the long run I could see this happening from new functionality no longer being supported by older equipment, but there has to be something else going on. It's as if our systems are all teetering on the edge of a cliff and when a new patch comes along that requires 1% more throughput some of our systems fall off.
Either that or the software is so full of bugs that certain combinations of hardware activate different sets of them, leading or not to disaster.
It makes intalling a patch or upgrade a pretty scary enterprise. And you can't even sit back and wait to see what happens to others. They may be fine but your system ends up being one of the unlucky ones.
I wouldn't mind hearing from one of Sonar's developers as to what they think is the cause of instability suddenly raising its ugly head. Maybe it's Windows, for all I know.
This kind of computer problems can keep me awake at night for days and days. Hope I'm not destined to be hit by the ghost any time soon.
Yes I did have an AMD machine, but it was scrapped when X2 killed it.
I could have rebuilt it AGAIN but decided it would be pointless, having already done that.
I went the Intel i7 route. All ok with X2 there now although had to get the config right to get good results.
Just need the bugs fixing.
I am convinced tha X2 is the culprit as too many people apart from myself have experienced too many issues with X2.
Again I know that others have negated such experiences as "more negative comments" but hey, people have ditched Sonar as a result of the problems! I nearly did as well, but for my Intel machine working out ok.
Folks are not making this stuff up!
Their issues are real.
I never had any probs with cakewalk up until and inc. X1, and I have have had cakewalk since it was on floppy!
X2 is great when it works, but the bugs need to ironed out.
We need NO more new features, rather we need what we have to work correctly and be stable for everyone.
I hope X2b sorts it out properly, and pronto!
(For instance, why does the Dock not resize when you undock an item. This bug got introduced with X2a, it never did i in X2)
I would not consider upgrading again in the future untill X2 runs perfectly, as I have had my fingers burnt with this.
I have spent more time 'fixing' the pc than making music.
x2 killed your computer? 
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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the wildman
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/24 16:17:17
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Yes chuckebaby,
It effectively killed it.
I could not reboot it, after one o it's many bsod crashes.
I ad to take it to my local computer repair centre.
They got it up and running again for me, but that was it for me.
I had struggled with it so so much since X2, that it was like banging my head on a brick wall.
It was driving me nuts!
My choices were
1/ try again,
2/ scrap it and salvage the good bits, while replacing the rest.
I'd had enough already, so chose option 2.
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TraceyStudios
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/25 14:17:05
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wildman, yes i understand what you are saying! LOL!
some folks are having good luck with x2. years ago I had version 5, purchased the upgrade to version 6, couldn't use it because cakewalk and tascam didn't coordinate (don't know how, what why). so I paid for something I couldn't use. continued to use 5 until i purchased x1, only because i needed a new machine. Then I purchased the upgrade to x2. I would really like to get it to work properly on my machine. I understand now, that sonar may perform differently on amd as intel, however I am already $800 into a machine. I was really frustrated when I posted the other day, not so frustrated now. I may go backwards back to x1, but the last few sessions, x2 has been working pretty well. Maybe i updated something that fixed something. I will just keep recording and see what happens.
AMD FX-6100 six-core processor 3.3GHz 8 Gig RAM SONAR X3 Producer Tascam FW1884 Mackie Blackbird Presonus Digimax Avalon U5 BFD2 SL Trigger Alesis DM8 Pro drums KRK Rokit 8s KRK 10s ARC2 Folgers Dark Roast, a bit of crazy :) & lots of help from the forums! http://www.reverbnation.com/blakkmire
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the wildman
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/25 14:36:01
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I had that too.
If you keep saving as you go along, just in case it crashes after a great take!
Should be safe.
But if not, then best go back to X1 d to sqve your sanity and your recordings.
X1 is good anyway. If I were to have further probs then I have decided that I would just revert to X1, but so far so good!
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/25 16:26:04
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☄ Helpful
Firstly - I am sorry for any frustration you and others have with X2/X2a.
I have a question or two for you, regarding the X2 portion of your post.
1. Was Windows brought up to current maintenance levels prior to your installation of X2?
2. Did you also download and install the X2a maintenance patch?
3. If you DID install the X2a patch, did you then follow the instructions for re-scanning plugins and all of that?
If my understanding is correct, from various snippets of posted text from the Cakewalk developers (who post here fairly frequently), the X2a patch contained something like 250 bug fixes from the original X2 release.
And, in at least one patch, one of the developers said that X2a was DEFINITELY a more stable version than the original X2.
One of the things it is important to note is that X2a requires at least a maintenance level of Service Pack 1 for Windows 7, for it to run properly. This is due to certain C++ routines that are expected to be installed in Windows for running X2a, and those routines are part of that Service Pack 1 for Windows 7.
In any case, I hope things are working for you - I am curious on seeing your responses to the above questions,
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Bub 
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/25 16:47:35
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What I don't understand is, why does Windows have to be updated when Sonar wasn't coded on the latest version of Windows?
I never got that.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/25 18:13:58
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@Bub - I certainly do not know all of the ins and outs of the coding of Sonar. I do know that certain code routines for the X2a patch are called - they simply MUST be present, and these particular routines only came into being with Service Pack 1 of Windows 7 (to the best of my knowledge).
Certainly the bulk of Sonar goes back quite a long while, but there comes a point in development where to advance some functionality of a product minimum system maintenance level requirements must come into play, and that is what has occurred with the X2a patch. I am actually quite pleased that they have done this, as I think it will make it easier for them to develop moving forward, as well as to support. That will hopefully make things both easier and better for us too.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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TraceyStudios
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/25 18:16:23
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robert:
1. Was Windows brought up to current maintenance levels prior to your installation of X2? - I don't remember, probably not.
2. Did you also download and install the X2a maintenance patch? - yes
3. If you DID install the X2a patch, did you then follow the instructions for re-scanning plugins and all of that? yes
yes I have service pak 1 now, not sure if I had when x2 & x2a were installed. I updated windows a few days ago. But I checked to see what updates were made, and I do have it.
AMD FX-6100 six-core processor 3.3GHz 8 Gig RAM SONAR X3 Producer Tascam FW1884 Mackie Blackbird Presonus Digimax Avalon U5 BFD2 SL Trigger Alesis DM8 Pro drums KRK Rokit 8s KRK 10s ARC2 Folgers Dark Roast, a bit of crazy :) & lots of help from the forums! http://www.reverbnation.com/blakkmire
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/25 18:28:21
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Thanks - I do not know the ramifications of installing Service Pack 1 AFTER installing the X2a patch.
I am hoping someone else out there can further guide the poster through this bit of a twist.
If nobody responds to shed further light on this, then you might consider doing a removal and re-installation of X2 and then X2a, now that you are patch current with Windows. HOPEFULLY that will fix it all for you. (perhaps though, this could be avoided by someone else from the forum community having a better understanding of the conditions as they are currently existing on your computer).
There are some threads out there with detailed instructions for complete removal of a given release of Sonar from a computer - there are Registry keys to delete, and some roaming data folders and such as well.
Here are the famous Britol_Jonesey removal instructions (I copied them out of a different thread):
1) Completely un-install SONAR from your computer. This is normally done from Start | Programs | Cakewalk. This will not remove any of your project files or audio data.
2) Open the Run Command
In Windows Vista and 7 this can be done by holding down the ‘windows’ key and pressing ‘r’
3) At the prompt type regedit and click OK.
***Backup your Registry before making edits - you do this by clicking the File menu, Export Registry File. ***
4) Now delete the following Registry keys:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\X2
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\X2
NOTE that this will remove any effects presets and key bindings you may have made in Cakewalk. You can back these up separately if you like, using Options|Key Bindings, Tools|SONAR Plug-in Manager, and Options|Colors. Hit F1 in these views for detailed instructions on how to do this.
5) Open the 'Run' command again.
6) Copy and paste the following into the prompt: %appdata%\Cakewalk
7) This will open your Cakewalk Application Data folder, right-click on the SONAR folder and choose rename.
8) Rename this folder SONAR X2 Backup.
9) Open the 'Run' command again and type msconfig Click OK and then click on the Startup tab at the upper right of the window that opens.
10) Uncheck all items listed, click OK, then restart your computer. You can always recheck those items again at a later time.
11) Then reinstall SONAR. Make sure to have any virus scanners disabled on installation. It is not required or recommended to turn off any windows services.
I did NOT have anything to do with that choice of fonts, by the way :)
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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TraceyStudios
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/25 18:38:48
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As I posted earlier in the thread, since I did windows update, I have still experienced a couple of minor bugs (nothing that stopped me from working) but x2 has been working really good, I was suprised. LOL. So now I am wondering if I just installed the service pack, unknowingly, I rescanned the vst, cuz i was trying to clean up my fx menu. Did both last friday. And I worked on it for about 16 hours sat & sun with only 2 issues, 1 I connected a usb drive in the middle of an export, so I believe that was my fault and the 2nd, I changed my asio buffer size and lost the audio ( i have a seperate post for this, not sure its a sonar issue or driver issue). a reboot and no more issues. I was really pleased with how well x2a was working, but then again its only been 2 days, so I am not going to claim success quite yet. :) hmmmmm..... Also here is something I just realized. The projects I was working on this weekend were created in x2a recently, within the month and last week. The projects that were really giving me greif were created in x1 and version 5. However I do have a project created in x2a which was also giving me greif. I will revist that project this week to see if I still experience issues. Anyone know of issues between projects created in differrent versions of sonar? May be nothing, just coincidental.
post edited by TraceyStudios - 2013/02/25 18:52:56
AMD FX-6100 six-core processor 3.3GHz 8 Gig RAM SONAR X3 Producer Tascam FW1884 Mackie Blackbird Presonus Digimax Avalon U5 BFD2 SL Trigger Alesis DM8 Pro drums KRK Rokit 8s KRK 10s ARC2 Folgers Dark Roast, a bit of crazy :) & lots of help from the forums! http://www.reverbnation.com/blakkmire
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ohgrant
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/25 18:52:32
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Not sure if you had a look at your IRQ's yet Tracy, but I was reading that FW cards with Ti chips are pretty finicky and pretty much need their own IRQ. I tried 3 Ti cards on my machine and couldn't get any of them to work without problems. Lucky for me I have no issues with my onboard VIA controller. You can check your IRQ by running MSCONFIG by going to the tools tab> system information. Drop the HW resources tree and check out conflicts/sharing. If you think there may be a problem with it you can change the IRQ by trying a different slot if available. If you have an onboard 1394 controller that you are not using I would try that. Glad the updates got you more stability I do apologize for my bad behavior in this thread and I hope Alex accepts the apology I sent to him. My coffee pudding had a bit to much body that night.
post edited by ohgrant - 2013/02/25 19:49:28
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Sir Les
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/26 00:41:24
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ohgrant
Not sure if you had a look at your IRQ's yet Tracy, but I was reading that FW cards with Ti chips are pretty finicky and pretty much need their own IRQ. I tried 3 Ti cards on my machine and couldn't get any of them to work without problems. Lucky for me I have no issues with my onboard VIA controller.
You can check your IRQ by running MSCONFIG by going to the tools tab> system information. Drop the HW resources tree and check out conflicts/sharing. If you think there may be a problem with it you can change the IRQ by trying a different slot if available. If you have an onboard 1394 controller that you are not using I would try that.
Glad the updates got you more stability
I do apologize for my bad behavior in this thread and I hope Alex accepts the apology I sent to him. My coffee pudding had a bit to much body that night.
Yes!!!!....this post is important...Thank you. So go to the start menu..select accessories / select system tools/ system information...in the left pain of the now open window..select hardware resources/ sharing and conflicts....and look at your devices IRQs...You can copy and paste em up for a techie to look at. Before doing any Bios flashing...see what is up with the IRQs....and then maybe it can be resolved...maybe.
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the wildman
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/26 04:49:52
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ohgrant
Not sure if you had a look at your IRQ's yet Tracy, but I was reading that FW cards with Ti chips are pretty finicky and pretty much need their own IRQ. I tried 3 Ti cards on my machine and couldn't get any of them to work without problems. Lucky for me I have no issues with my onboard VIA controller.
You can check your IRQ by running MSCONFIG by going to the tools tab> system information. Drop the HW resources tree and check out conflicts/sharing. If you think there may be a problem with it you can change the IRQ by trying a different slot if available. If you have an onboard 1394 controller that you are not using I would try that.
Glad the updates got you more stability
I do apologize for my bad behavior in this thread and I hope Alex accepts the apology I sent to him. My coffee pudding had a bit to much body that night.
+1 for that. Yes thats a good point to bring up. I had a look in the mobo manual, where it said which slot to use for the Firewire card, one without any shared resources.
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/02/26 10:15:25
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@TraceyStudios
Please do post back in a bit with an update on how it is all going for you - it is tentatively good that it is tentatively good - hopefully things will remain more stable.
Just a thought - I think I remember seeing that some folks had some issues opening older projects, due to plugins (might have been 32-bit, look-ahead buffering, that kind of stuff). Perhaps you could try opening one of your problematic projects in Safe mode and not loading the plugins - then load them in one at a time to see if any of those are contributing to any weirdness. And, if a 64-bit version of any of the plugs exists, try changing those from 32-bit to 64-bit and see if that helps too.
Certain plugins use something called look-ahead processing, or look-ahead buffering, and these can put the whammy on things, from what I understand, depending on how it is used in a project. Perfect Space is one such plugin.
For one of your problem projects, can you please detail which plugins are used, and whether or not they are 32 or 64 bit? That may be helpful to know.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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TraceyStudios
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/03/01 15:39:58
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Well, I have about 30 hours under my belt with almost no issues. I went back to the problematic projects and, still have a couple minor bugs, but sonar is working well. As per the advise from this post, I did a windows update, made sure I had the correct drivers for my audio device. I did not do the bios update. I took a good look at the services running on the computer and disabled the obvious ones that I didn't need. (iTunes helper, etc). Verified I had the latest version: X2a. So I am please with how the program is running. I have an AMD machine, so it appears that they can run well.
Thanks all who posted advise!!!
AMD FX-6100 six-core processor 3.3GHz 8 Gig RAM SONAR X3 Producer Tascam FW1884 Mackie Blackbird Presonus Digimax Avalon U5 BFD2 SL Trigger Alesis DM8 Pro drums KRK Rokit 8s KRK 10s ARC2 Folgers Dark Roast, a bit of crazy :) & lots of help from the forums! http://www.reverbnation.com/blakkmire
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pbognar
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Re:Frustration, crashed and weird crap happening.
2013/03/01 16:53:02
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robert_e_bone
<snip>
One of the things it is important to note is that X2a requires at least a maintenance level of Service Pack 1 for Windows 7, for it to run properly. This is due to certain C++ routines that are expected to be installed in Windows for running X2a, and those routines are part of that Service Pack 1 for Windows 7.
In any case, I hope things are working for you - I am curious on seeing your responses to the above questions,
Bob Bone
It appears your advice helped TraceyStudios, which is great. Is the part about having Service Pack 1 for Windows 7 installed before installing X2 / patching to X2a documented by Cakewalk anywhere?
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