Here is a perfect example of the Sonar CPU discrepancy:

• I have Sonar open, but sitting idle.  Windows Task Manager shows cpu for Sonar bouncing between 1-10%, and my TOTAL cpu usage at 5-14%
• Sonar's cpu meter (in lower right status bar) is bouncing between 18-25%

How can Sonar alone be using more than the total cpu on my computer?  Not logically possible, unless the Sonar cpu meter is displaying something much less intuitive.

I would say it doesn't matter, but it is quite significant to me.  Sonar fails (crackles/slows down/drops-out) when it's cpu meter gets too high.  However, even when Sonar's cpu meter maxes out (100% and "Warning"), I still have plenty of cpu available on my computer.

As stated earlier, the core parking fix did not work and did not seem to apply to my dual core Xeon, but I'm willing to try again if it makes sense.

Yeah I'm thinking tarsier is on the right track with some process running... something else must be snotting you.... I'm presuming there is no virus type activity?

Something odd happening here outside of the box (so to speak )

- Sample rates are matched up (48khz)

I assume this means the card's settings, and the windows audio sound I/O settings.

Learning I had to change the windows settings was too time consuming. Definately made clicking noises.

Setting everything to 44 has the same results with new project?

Hi all, sorry I'm late to the party, but I'm guilty of skipping over posts with "W7" in the subject line because I don't run it myself. Happily chugging away on XP here.

So let's review the evidence, so I can catch up:

1. Your DPC latency is in the green, so we can eliminate IRQ overhead as the problem. So scratch any avenues having to do with IRQ conflicts or with disabling adapters such as the usual suspects: wi-fi, NIC, video. Not relevant.

2. Video cards can be responsible for overhead that won't show up in the DPC Latency checker, but you've already replaced the video adapter and it made no difference. I think we can at least tentatively eliminate the video card.

3. The problem persists with the integrated audio interface and the Echo disabled, so we can eliminate the interface, its driver, and firewire. So forget the TI chipset, backrevving the driver, replacing the firewire interface or cable. None of that is relevant.

4. You sometimes see SONAR's CPU meter at 100%. As tarsier explained, SONAR's CPU meter measures something different than Task Manager and there isn't necessarily any direct correlation between the two. However, the SONAR meter does tell you something very important: that it was unable to service the audio buffer in the time allotted to do so.

So if the CPU wasn't servicing the buffers, then what WAS it doing? That is the pivotal question.

4. When the CPU meter maxes out, it's just one of the two cores. That's to be expected, actually. Many processes, including most VSTs, can only use one core at a time. If one of these processes gets stuck in a loop, it'll naturally eat up just one core's CPU cycles. Some VSTs perform much worse with multiple cores. Kontakt, for example, works much more efficiently when you tell it to use one core.

Here are some important questions that either haven't been asked yet, or have been asked but not answered:

- is the problem specific to one project, or all projects?
- are there any specific soft synths you use in all your projects, e.g. GPO, Kontakt, VSL or other heavy-duty samplers?
- does the problem persist if you click Global Bypass?
- does the problem occur with other audio applications such as WMP?
- have you performed memory and disk tests to confirm both are working properly? Intermittent read or write failures in either RAM or the hard drive could cause your symptoms.
- it's an older machine: how long has it been since you cleaned out the dust bunnies from the CPU heatsink? An overheating CPU will slow itself down as a self-preservation tactic.

So far the evidence suggests that the problem stems from either a plugin or a background process. If a plugin, that should be easy to find through a process of elimination. I'm guessing you've already done that by testing with a minimal, audio-only project. This avenue may also be eliminated if the dropouts occur in WMP as well.

That leaves some other process as the prime suspect. Task Manager does not list all processes. Did you know that a program can actually instruct Windows to NOT include itself in Task Manager's list? (Handy for virus writers, since viruses don't like to advertise themselves.) Many of Windows' own processes aren't listed there, either.

If you want to see ALL the processes, use Process Explorer from sysinternals.com instead of Task Manager. If a background process is getting greedy with CPU resources, this tool will steer you toward it. It will not, however, tell you if a process is blocking hardware, if your disk drive is taking correctable errors, or if the CPU is slowing down.

Another diagnostic tool you might want to look into is xperf, which is part of the Windows Performance Toolkit. WPT is a 4BG(!) download, so you'll want to use the web installer which lets you download just the tools. I don't have a lot of experience with xperf myself, since I am on XP (XP users can use the older kernrate utility, which I can tell you all about if you want), but this tool will let you peek into the secret life of your CPU and tell you just what it's really up to.

Ah!  The score seems a bit low for CPU-memory intensive 64bit DAWs

Memory and Processor seem pretty minimal.  Is uprading these (and the hard drive) an option (or the computer itself at this point?)

I've read the whole thread and haven't seen anything mentioned about increasing the size of your buffers. You mentioned what your latency was; something like 5msec with a considerably longer round trip latency.

So try increasing your buffers.

have you tried the other host sequencer (demos?) with the same plugin setup, just to cross check if it is perhaps the Sonar issue? I have the same results but all runs well in an other host application so,

you know most others have also x64 demos on web like Cubase , also Reaper....

I'm out of my league here and you're being helped by the best this forum has to offer...but I'm sitting here reading this trying to think of anything we might have missed and remembered one of my biggest issues. Do you happen to have the 64 bit precision engine enabled in options/audio/general? If so, just for the heck of it, take the check out of that box and see if it makes a difference. For some odd reason, I cannot use that option on any of my pc's with any of my OS's. I get clicks, pops, stutters and drop-outs on XP Pro, Vista and Win 7 64 bit. As soon as I kill that option, I never have a problem and can run even my Realtek HD without any issues using ASIO4ALL drivers. Sorry you're having issues....I really hope you can get to the bottom of this. Good luck.

This has got to be a basic issue.

Did it work correctly in the beginning?

You wrote it has become worse over time. Was it gradual?

Have you tried reaper, audacity?  With / without the echo interface?

Are the windows audio sound I/O settings the same as  the echo?

Mr. Danzi, thank you for your input.  I've tried 64 bit precision engine on/off, no difference.
 
thebiglongy, I'm not certain what model motherboard my Dell Precision 490 has; I will see if BIOS can tell me.  I did purchase direct from DELL (NEVER again, and not because of this issue).  I customized the setup when ordering.  It was XP x64 at the time, which was never perfect w/ Sonar, but much better than Win 7 x64.  I did a memory test (came up clean), and the innards are physically clean as well.
 
jm24, it worked a lot better on XP x64, but I hoped Win 7 would provide better performance.  I upgraded my audio interface (Echo Audiofire 8), trying to get better latency/performance, but the issues remained (or got worse). 

I have not tried other sequencers, and I don't want to install any at this time (thanks for reading, Supercomposer). But I am only using the onboard soundcard for now to troubleshoot.
 
I just tried the "SONAR Audio and MIDI DEMO2.cwp" again, and it is full of static/crackle, until I set latency way up over 100ms.  This project uses NO soft synths, and the MIDI track doesn't play since I don't have "Microsoft GS Wavetable SW synth".
 
 
One question for now... From what I understand, when you plug USB/Firewire devices into a new port, drivers are loaded.  I've moved stuff around so much in troubleshooting, there must be excessive drivers on each port.  Is there a way to clear out all those type of drivers?  I.e. refresh all USB/Firewire ports?
 
PeterMc, thanks, I will look deeper (and carefully) into more BIOS settings.  I'll see if I have "C-State" or other power-saving features.  In fact, I'm about to reboot and do that now. I'll see if there are any obvious and reversible things to change and test.

Here are some current BIOS settings, if anybody is familiar...
SpeedStep = Off
Virtualization = Off
Snoop Filter = On
ACL (Adjacent Cache Line) Prefetch = On *
HW (Hardware) Prefetch = On
FSB Optimizations = On *
[EDIT] SERR Message = On (missed this one)
 
* The factory default for these two is OFF.  I don't know how they got turned on.  BIOS update perhaps?
 
There is no "C-State" but I do have "Low Power Mode" set to Off.

itllcometogether


Here are some current BIOS settings, if anybody is familiar...
SpeedStep = Off
Virtualization = Off
Snoop Filter = On
ACL (Adjacent Cache Line) Prefetch = On *
HW (Hardware) Prefetch = On
FSB Optimizations = On *
[EDIT] SERR Message = On (missed this one)
 
* The factory default for these two is OFF.  I don't know how they got turned on.  BIOS update perhaps?
 
There is no "C-State" but I do have "Low Power Mode" set to Off.

I suggest you try turning off the Snoop Filter, ACL, HW prefetch and FSB optimizations and see if anything changes. You can always turn them on again. At this stage, it's worth trying simple things like these before re-installing (which is a pain, and might not cure it anyway). Again, good luck.

Cheers, Peter.

p.s. I found myself thinking while trying to sort out my own crackling problems, wouldn't it be great if someone could write a software tool to trace the audio signal path and find out where the crackle is being added. There has to be a particular point at which the signal goes from clean to crap.

itllcometogether


I appreciate you reading this thread Mike; it's not a simple task!

I have tried increasing my Playback and Record buffers (Audio Options > Advanced).  Even jacking them up to 2048 made no difference.

Sometimes shutting off the SONAR buffer is the right answer. -Bruce

John


When I say a Vista/Windows 7 capable graphics card it does not need to be an expensive one. I paid $79 for mine. It works great.

Hi John,
   Could you tell us which card you got?  I'm looking for a W7 compatible card with dual vga outputs.

dance_lets@yahoo.com

John


When I say a Vista/Windows 7 capable graphics card it does not need to be an expensive one. I paid $79 for mine. It works great.

Hi John,
  Could you tell us which card you got?  I'm looking for a W7 compatible card with dual vga outputs.

Mine is an XFX 8600 fanless model that I bought at MicroCenter. There are better ones for less now. It was $79 when I bought it.  I have not had any trouble with this one. I run Vista with full Aero support on dual monitors. I may upgrade if/when I see a real bargain.  It has served me well.

Just checking around I found a few for $39 at Newegg. Not the same as mine but better. LOL