TraceyStudios
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/12 15:26:55
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Glad to see I am not the only one sruggling with it!
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tunekicker
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/12 15:33:46
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Another thing I find helpful is setting up the ProChannel EQ on the Kick and Bass to be complementary. Basically it's a combination of: - Quick Grouping where you select both tracks and hold CTRL to do the same thing on both tracks at once. Anything where you want the exact same thing to happen on both tracks at once should be set up this way
- Manual Grouping where you choose Custom and swap values on one track. This is great for settings where you want the opposite thing to happen for both tracks at once
Usually for Kick and Bass I will set the amplitude on two bands to opposites using Manual Groups, and leave the Frequency and Q to Quick Groups. This allows me to tweak both tracks with complementary EQ that I can hear in realtime as I tweak. Most commonly this means boosting the kick around 80 (which automatically cuts the kick there in this setup), boosting the bass around 120 (which automatically cuts the kick there in this setup.) To tweak you can try using different EQ modes, since cycling through them changes the way the Q works. I tend to find broader boosts and narrower cuts sound great. I then tend to cut the low mids a bit in both tracks, often using Quick Groups to cut the same frequencies with one mouse stroke. It takes a little setup the first time, but adding this to my standard template makes it SUPER fast.
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tunekicker
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/12 15:38:00
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pentimentosound
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/12 18:46:11
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RE Tuning the bass track; even when I think it sounds really in tune I run Auto Tune and am always surprized that it "fits" better and sounds better. So I raise my hand on that one,too. RE Mattplaysguitar's comments. How do other recordings sound in that room on those speakers?!?! How does the bass "fit"? on other "records". Make a test CD and play it in your car and on a cheesey little boombox CD player with 18" between left and right!, which is always a great way to reel myself in with reverb! HA! Bass will be the same, no doubt. I have a 1980 G&L L-1000 single pickup with 3 position switch which always seemed HUGE, HUGER and HOLY CRAP to me! So, once I learned about multiband compressors, I use to feel like I couldn't get that bass to fit "easily"(read -quickly). Then there's the New York school of mixing the bass track and running a parallel bass copy channel with heavy compression and EQ boosts might give you what you are wanting. Start with the basic (bass ick?) track and mix the other underneath til you find your bliss!
post edited by pentimentosound - 2012/09/12 18:58:58
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bobguitkillerleft
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/12 18:55:01
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As far as Fender Precision Basses,they can sound muddy,due to the placement of the pickup IMO.
A Fender Jazz style pickup arrangement,has always sounded much cleaner/clearer,or at least on some brands,where they have the standard Precision pickup,but also a treble position Jazz style pickup as well.
Bob
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indravayu
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/12 20:50:51
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Countless awesome-sounding albums albums have been recorded with fender Precision basses! Unless the style of music that you are recording calls for a very clean/clinical bass with lots of high end (definitely not most styles of Rock!), you cannot go wrong with a P-bass. Definitely have it professionally set up, though - proper intonation is important (and if you have a cheaper Fender or a Squier, upgrade the electronics and pickups). Odd that some here have mentioned using new strings - most people prefer the sound of worn in bass strings.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but another cool trick is (if you use a Drum bus compressor), insert a send on your bass track to the Drum compressor bus (I usually turn the volume down a bit on this send - just want a touch of bass in there, but YMMV).
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Cactus Music
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/12 21:32:01
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Old strings loose their intonation. Have you ever looked at the bottom of an old set of bass or guitar strings? That's right ,, there's a bunch of dents at each fret. There goes your intonation. The windings get full of crud and they are just plain dull sounding.
I have yet to meet a good bass player who doesn't change strings when there are obviously worn out. Thank god they never break..well hardily ever...
+1 the Leftybob's post.
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jrfrogers
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/12 22:30:50
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Nice tip Jeff, thank you. That worked great for me.
Sam
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bobguitkillerleft
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/12 23:43:07
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indravayu
Countless awesome-sounding albums albums have been recorded with fender Precision basses! Unless the style of music that you are recording calls for a very clean/clinical bass with lots of high end (definitely not most styles of Rock!), you cannot go wrong with a P-bass. Definitely have it professionally set up, though - proper intonation is important (and if you have a cheaper Fender or a Squier, upgrade the electronics and pickups). Odd that some here have mentioned using new strings - most people prefer the sound of worn in bass strings.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but another cool trick is (if you use a Drum bus compressor), insert a send on your bass track to the Drum compressor bus (I usually turn the volume down a bit on this send - just want a touch of bass in there, but YMMV).
John Paul Jones from that kinda well known band Led Zeppelin preferred the Jazz bass pickups for clarity,but then used flat wound strings for low end guts,after using a Tele headstock Precision for years,the Jazz/Flatwound combo became his workhorse until,an Alembic 8 string,came along,and started getting in the way of Pagey's guitar sound. All only MO of course,but I'd go with a Jazz Bass any day over a mid range mess of a Precision.....again just MO,and of course,there are these things called "bass" on the EQ section of amps etc,to get any percieved loss of lows from the Jazz pickup arrangement. Each to their own. Bob
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 00:53:52
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+1 for flatwounds :) Almost like old bass strings but a smoother low end and no intonation problems :)
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NW Smith
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 09:31:13
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My favorite placing the bass in the mix technique is using the Sontius Surround Plug-in. When you select this plug in, you are able to place the bass sound in a 3-dimensional manner. There's always a spot in the mix where the bass will sound best. Try it!
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Kenneth
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 10:40:52
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I'm sure some bassists already know this, but if you can't afford buying new strings often, take them off and boil them in ether (do this OUTSIDE and be careful, LONG extension cord, plug it in when it's far away, let boil, turn it off, let cool at least 30 min. before retrieving them)
Enjoy your old set of strings sounding like you just put a new set on.
Years back when I played with a perpetually broke jazz band the bassist used to do this once a week.
If you blow yourself up doing this you didn't hear this from me (Jedi wave...)
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sharke
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 11:05:01
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Kenneth
I'm sure some bassists already know this, but if you can't afford buying new strings often, take them off and boil them in ether (do this OUTSIDE and be careful, LONG extension cord, plug it in when it's far away, let boil, turn it off, let cool at least 30 min. before retrieving them)
Enjoy your old set of strings sounding like you just put a new set on.
Years back when I played with a perpetually broke jazz band the bassist used to do this once a week.
If you blow yourself up doing this you didn't hear this from me (Jedi wave...)
I cannot hear the word "ether" without also hearing the words "Hunter S. Thompson" and "Las Vegas."
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Del
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 13:05:36
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tunekicker
For those that like pictures, I go through the complimentary EQ using the Pro Channel on my blog: http://mezzaninefloorstudios.com/blog/?p=62
Thanks tunekicker, there is some nice information on your blog site! Thanks!
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Gaffpro
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 13:49:52
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A good P Bass is not midrangey.....the one's I've played are fat, round, and still retain the clarity........BTW, I picked up a MIM Fender P Bass Active Deluxe and it sounds great. P Bass body, Jazz neck, and a split configuration....P bass pickup in front and jazz pickup in the rear with plenty of onboard eq....highly recommended....got it for $600 new
Without going into eq for the kick drum (since I don't know what your kick sounds like), if you add 800 hz to the bass track, it will bring out the articulation of the notes...depending on what else is going on in the song, a little bit of 3 khz would also help
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Guitarpima
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 16:10:06
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I'm trying to fathom the idea of boiling your strings outside. What's wrong with a pot of water on the stove? People have been boiling water on the stove for since we've had stoves. Call me silly but why all the extra work just to boil your strings?
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SF_Green
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 16:39:03
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jamesyoyo
After you follow everyone else's fine advice, try using this
Thanks James!
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SF_Green
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 16:41:22
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his can net you that old-school Chris Squire, Geddy Lee type bass tone.
Of course, playing a Rickenbacker 4002 helps with that too! 
AMD FX-8370, Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3, Win7x64 SP1, 16Gb CorsairDDR3-1600, GeForce GTX 950 (390.65), SSD 525Gb (OS), SATA 3 & 1.5Tb, MOTU microlite, RME FireFace 800 (D 3.124, fw 2.77), UAD-2Q, Adam A7X, A-800 PRO, CC121 Cubase Pro 10.0.5, SonarPt- 2017.10 (x64), Reason10.2, Live 10.0.5 Suite, Wavelab Elements 9.5.40, Komplete10Ult, POD Farm2.5, Omnisphere2.5, BFD3, Alesis QS7.1, Arturia BeatStep Pro, POD HD500, Alesis ControlPad, ARP Omni, many things with strings. GrSltz My Studio
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SF_Green
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 16:43:00
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dlesaux
This month's Sound on Sound magazine has a great article on mixing the low end..
+1
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Zenwit
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 19:22:10
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Guitarpima
Call me silly but why all the extra work just to boil your strings?
+1 I always boil the strings while they are still attached to my MIM Jazz. I get a much fatter sound that way.
Sonar Platinum x64 Windows 10 x64 Couple of guitars, a bass, bunch of plugins, not enough time....
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drumr
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 20:11:37
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ltb
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 20:25:06
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Kenneth
I'm sure some bassists already know this, but if you can't afford buying new strings often, take them off and boil them in ether (do this OUTSIDE and be careful, LONG extension cord, plug it in when it's far away, let boil, turn it off, let cool at least 30 min. before retrieving them)
Enjoy your old set of strings sounding like you just put a new set on.
Years back when I played with a perpetually broke jazz band the bassist used to do this once a week.
If you blow yourself up doing this you didn't hear this from me (Jedi wave...)
Great tip when gigging 6 nights a week. Brings them back to life & saves you a few $$.
post edited by carl - 2012/09/14 08:25:40
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TraceyStudios
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 21:42:05
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I have a P Bass special, SD 1/4 pounders in a pj set up, jazz neck. I think the intonation is good. I check every so often with a tuner. It plays great. Strings are not very old. Bass stays at home in the studio.
My bass in the mix is getting better. The most helpful tips i received were: turning the bass down and starting with a flat freq response (not eq). I am using guitar rig 5, a bassamp model, more intuitive for me to work with. I hit the each string to make sure they are all the same volume, adjusted the eq to get them the same. while playback I adjust the eq again where needed to bring out/blend the bassline. I also hpf at around 80 hz, let the kick come thru a little better. I am still working on it, but it is far better than before I posted in the forum. I received all of these tips from this thread.
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bigboi
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 21:55:49
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IM sure someon mentioned this: Take a good parametric EG and apply to offending tracks (ones where freq crossover is a problem). you really need one that will allow you to see the freq spectrum of each track. (Fabfilter,in my opinion, has the best EQ hands down http://www.fabfilter.com/products/pro-q.php). Now, take a look at each track's spectrograph and see where they are overlapping. Make cuts and boosts to carve out space for each instrument in the mix. Don't be afraid to pan lead or acoustic guitars around. Be careful panning your bass....can thin it out rather quickly. The avalon is a good DI for bass, so you definitely have the potential for greatness. Good luck.
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TraceyStudios
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 22:31:46
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bigboi
The avalon is a good DI for bass, so you definitely have the potential for greatness. Good luck.
Now all I need is skill and talent...lookout greatness, here I come! LOL!!
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Guitarpima
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/13 22:38:37
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You can also try cutting frequencies in other instruments around 400hz, give or take some, making more room for the bass.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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LLyons
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/14 17:05:30
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Getting the bass to sit in the mix with EQ and a little compression is the most important thing.
For additional help you may want to try out a little VST that someone on this forum YEARS ago enlightened us with, and I am still using - try BAXXPANDER for grins... When I can't get enough space to sit in, sometimes its because the bass isn't thick enough itself.
I use an older 1980 PBass, usually new strings, and run it through my old SWR 900. I take a direct out and mic one of the goliath III's 10's with a d112. MOST of the time, I choose the direct out (don't use the mic track at all), and add a little of this VST - and in its case, a little goes a LONG way.
Best regards,
L
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Beepster
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/15 17:41:00
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Bumping this for easy access. Got some bass mayhem to sort out.
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pentimentosound
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/15 18:06:25
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I used to do the boil 'em thing, until a guy at GC completely loosened one string at a time and then snapped it, letting it whack the fingerboard, a half dozen times and then tuned it back up. It sounded new, to my shock and delight! So from then on if someone with dirty hands (some folks seem to shed skin REALLY FAST when playing MY guitars! LOL! ) played my guitars or basses, I did this little process and was back in business PRONTO! This of course freed up the stove for regular stuff! Try it out. It is the quicker way and I still wipe them off before retuning from underneath going over the nut and bridge, just to be thorough. Michael
post edited by pentimentosound - 2012/09/15 18:31:37
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Beepster
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Re:Getting the Bass Guitar to sit in the mix correctly
2012/09/15 18:17:18
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Just loosening them off and cleaning them with some rubbing alcohol dabbed onto a cloth one at a time brings some life back. I would never go through the bother of boiling strings unless it was an emergency. At a certain point it's best just to change them. Considering they last far longer than guitar strings it's a pretty minimal maintenance investment and it makes such a huge difference. I used to break bass strings so often I never had to worry about them going dead. Fortunately I could get No Fame replacements for $15 a pack. Are they still even selling those? I would have been screwed without that brand. Pretty darned good strings too for the price.
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