jbow
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/26 10:03:51
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☄ Helpfulby drewfx1 2016/03/26 13:27:36
I blame IK and Apple and of course anyone under 30. People who think a beat and a bad "poem" is music are a detriment to artists who play an instrument. Pop culture, what'cha gonna do? Not much.
Mainstream music and style always follows some new small cultural movement that no one else likes when it starts. The Beats. Carnaby Street. The Hippies. Black Power/the AFRO. Busting slacks. Rap and Hip Hop. Things like that always start out small and mainstream does not like it... then within 10 years it IS mainstream. It is how Pop Culture works. Most older people never like it but younger people embrace it partly because older people don't like it.
I'm sure the guitar will come back but never again like in the 60s and 70s. The blues and jazz guitarist will always be around as will rockers but mainstream music may or may not embrace the combo again. IDK.
In any case it is someone's fault!!
If Gibson will just make a good and affordable LP Standard, SG Standard, ES-335, Brydland, Hummingbird, Dove etc... GOOD QC and keep the price down and they will recover. No one wants to spend big bucks on an instrument that may or may not be well finished. Gibson has let their QC slip to the point where people half expect for the fit and finish to not be what it should be. There is NO excuse for that. IT's hard to recover a good reputation once it is tarnished. I wish them well.
J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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drewfx1
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/26 13:19:18
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Popular music is, and always has been, fickle.
And "sophisticated" music historically has rarely had all that much overlap with the music of the masses who just want to hear "a nice melody" or "something I can dance to".
But guitars are just sexy for some reason and an electric guitar can generate a response even with crude playing skills like almost nothing else. They just need the next icon to come along to inspire the masses.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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TerraSin
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/26 15:47:27
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drewfx1
Popular music is, and always has been, fickle.
And "sophisticated" music historically has rarely had all that much overlap with the music of the masses who just want to hear "a nice melody" or "something I can dance to".
Dunno if that's 100%. Look at Queen. If you ever get a chance to listen to their multi-tracks, it melts your brain. There is so much sophistication and perfection in what that band did and for a long while they were on top of the world in popularity. They just did it in a way that it was able to bridge the gap between pop culture and intelligent music.
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jamesg1213
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/26 15:56:17
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TerraSin
drewfx1
Popular music is, and always has been, fickle.
And "sophisticated" music historically has rarely had all that much overlap with the music of the masses who just want to hear "a nice melody" or "something I can dance to".
Dunno if that's 100%. Look at Queen. If you ever get a chance to listen to their multi-tracks, it melts your brain. There is so much sophistication and perfection in what that band did and for a long while they were on top of the world in popularity. They just did it in a way that it was able to bridge the gap between pop culture and intelligent music.
I'd add Steely Dan to that. Possibly the most sophisticated 'pop' music you're ever likely to hear (apart from 10cc). Then there's Burt Bacharach and Nelson Riddle of course.
post edited by jamesg1213 - 2016/03/26 16:28:07
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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Jesse Screed
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/26 16:17:41
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Why blame anyone? Especially the kids.
The times, they are changing.
But, this is the internet, so have your opinion. There will still be guitars if Gibson morphs out of existence, which it won't.
Jesse Q. Screed
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drewfx1
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/26 16:53:23
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jamesg1213
TerraSin
drewfx1
Popular music is, and always has been, fickle.
And "sophisticated" music historically has rarely had all that much overlap with the music of the masses who just want to hear "a nice melody" or "something I can dance to".
Dunno if that's 100%. Look at Queen. If you ever get a chance to listen to their multi-tracks, it melts your brain. There is so much sophistication and perfection in what that band did and for a long while they were on top of the world in popularity. They just did it in a way that it was able to bridge the gap between pop culture and intelligent music.
I'd add Steely Dan to that. Possibly the most sophisticated 'pop' music you're ever likely to hear (apart from 10cc).
Then there's Burt Bacharach and Nelson Riddle of course.
I wasn't arguing that popular music was/is never sophisticated but that over the course of hundreds of years sophisticated popular music is the exception not the rule.
In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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jamesg1213
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/26 17:13:32
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drewfx1
jamesg1213
TerraSin
drewfx1
Popular music is, and always has been, fickle.
And "sophisticated" music historically has rarely had all that much overlap with the music of the masses who just want to hear "a nice melody" or "something I can dance to".
Dunno if that's 100%. Look at Queen. If you ever get a chance to listen to their multi-tracks, it melts your brain. There is so much sophistication and perfection in what that band did and for a long while they were on top of the world in popularity. They just did it in a way that it was able to bridge the gap between pop culture and intelligent music.
I'd add Steely Dan to that. Possibly the most sophisticated 'pop' music you're ever likely to hear (apart from 10cc).
Then there's Burt Bacharach and Nelson Riddle of course.
I wasn't arguing that popular music was/is never sophisticated but that over the course of hundreds of years sophisticated popular music is the exception not the rule.
Yes, OK then. I'd hate to make anyone think they'd been misconstrued.
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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craigb
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/26 17:31:19
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Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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BobF
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/26 18:59:48
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 IMO, music has two primary aspects as it relates to people. One is from the perspective of the creator; self expression. The other is the way the music connects to listeners. There are many ways -frames of mind- that people enjoy listening to music from. From either perspective it seems a bit over the top to claim any music, whether a form of self expression or a piece that a listener connects with, to be beneath another. I personally create music for myself, and listen to music of all styles and levels of sophistication at one time or another. I even find comfort in the slow rhythm of an old 2-cylinder tractor engine at times. So if you find yourself looking down on other musicians or listeners, maybe some time in front of a mirror would be time better spent.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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craigb
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/26 19:22:16
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☄ Helpfulby BobF 2016/03/26 19:49:08
That could be mean to the mirror...
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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BobF
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/26 19:34:25
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craigb
That could be mean to the mirror...
I hear 'dat!
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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bapu
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/26 19:34:38
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☄ Helpfulby BobF 2016/03/26 19:50:03
I keep away from mirrors for all the obvious reasons.
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BobF
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/26 19:35:23
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bapu
I keep away from mirrors for all the obvious reasons.
You and me bofe!
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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bapu
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/26 19:36:13
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I find I'm prettier, sexier and skinnier that way.
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yorolpal
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/27 00:30:24
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Music is no different than any other discipline. Except perhaps, like all the "arts", susceptible to subjective appreciation in the discernment of the unschooled and untrained layity. And, at times, (dear lawd) even schooled and trained peers. Go figure.
But, as with any discipline, there are definite hierarchical levels of pedagogy to be both accomplished and mastered. Given that, it is quite possible, in most circumstances, to discern ones level of "musicianship" and virtuosity. In short...either you got it...or you ain't. Amazing expertise and total suckatude being the two extremes of the scale. Like it or not...them's the facts, Jack.
Try going ahead and paying your plumber for fixing a leaky faucet by creating a spewing fountain of cascading water emanating from said faucet because "it satisfies his inner groove". And calling him a "genius" to boot.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/27 10:42:19
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I see 'Orphaned' has been banned. Probably more for THIS POST rather than for THIS ONE. Although the official line for the ban is because he/she " is yet another alt for the same person whose posts all have the common theme of shilling for Studio One and Reaper, hatred of SONAR, and contempt for the community". Maybe something a few of us need to be aware of, including one former Forum Host: " I try to be tolerant but multiple alts are against the terms of service. I've banned most of them and this will be no different." Edit: mistaken identity corrected... thanks Craig.
post edited by SteveStrummerUK - 2016/03/29 11:28:57
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BobF
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/27 10:46:16
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Differences between arts and trades, and obvious outlying extremes aside, the fact that the artist plummer is doing commission work for somebody else is an important distinction. Doing water art for someone else would *possibly* involve some up front expectation about the form of the result. Unless the customer is an unquestioning patron.
OTOH, if the plummer were to create a fountain for his own enjoyment, having someone else "appreciate" his masterpiece would be optional - if it was truly created for his own pleasure.
I think in most cases, certainly not all, artists strive for greater mastery of their medium as they mature as artists. This will certainly gain greater levels of satisfaction internally and greater appreciation externally.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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Moshkito
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/27 10:48:04
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jamesg1213
I'd add Steely Dan to that. Possibly the most sophisticated 'pop' music you're ever likely to hear (apart from 10cc).
Then there's Burt Bacharach and Nelson Riddle of course.
Agreed. Also adding Henry Mancini to that ... I was just listening to some of the different Pink Panther themes for various movies of his, and let me tell you ... that jazzy stuff was hip as heck ... but we don't listen to it because some of it was in a movie, not in a CD ... and yeah ... there was some really good stuff worth playing and enjoying and then some ... and he always had guitar moments on his music!
Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides!
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craigb
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/27 18:37:57
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SteveStrummerUK
I see the OP has been banned.
Not the OP (BobF), but the troll Orphaned at Birth.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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bitman
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/28 09:53:53
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It's not the good old days for anyone anymore.
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Moshkito
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/28 14:58:52
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jbow
...
If Gibson will just make a good and affordable LP Standard, SG Standard, ES-335, Brydland, Hummingbird, Dove etc... GOOD QC and keep the price down and they will recover. No one wants to spend big bucks on an instrument that may or may not be well finished. Gibson has let their QC slip to the point where people half expect for the fit and finish to not be what it should be. There is NO excuse for that. IT's hard to recover a good reputation once it is tarnished. I wish them well.
...
I don't know the quantum mechanics of the design and things, but what is weird to me, is seeing the "new models" each year on Guitar Center or Sweetwater, or wherever and ... they all look the same ... and I can't imagine me owning one and thinking ... these are the same ... why are they "better"? And the price keeps going ... Fender will run into this soon as well is my bet! I mean ... the only design that had me hooked in the past 5 years is the Stratus Graphite headless bass and I want A 5 string of those ... just for the heck of it. It looks far out and finally ... not shaped like everyone else's guitar!
Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides!
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bapu
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/28 16:33:34
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You can have my alts when you pry them from my cold dead posting hands. 
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michaelhanson
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/28 20:06:52
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Moshkito
jbow
...
If Gibson will just make a good and affordable LP Standard, SG Standard, ES-335, Brydland, Hummingbird, Dove etc... GOOD QC and keep the price down and they will recover. No one wants to spend big bucks on an instrument that may or may not be well finished. Gibson has let their QC slip to the point where people half expect for the fit and finish to not be what it should be. There is NO excuse for that. IT's hard to recover a good reputation once it is tarnished. I wish them well.
...
I don't know the quantum mechanics of the design and things, but what is weird to me, is seeing the "new models" each year on Guitar Center or Sweetwater, or wherever and ... they all look the same ... and I can't imagine me owning one and thinking ... these are the same ... why are they "better"? And the price keeps going ... Fender will run into this soon as well is my bet!
I mean ... the only design that had me hooked in the past 5 years is the Stratus Graphite headless bass and I want A 5 string of those ... just for the heck of it. It looks far out and finally ... not shaped like everyone else's guitar!
I don't want a new design. I'm vintage....I like vintage. Give me a '58-59 LP any day. How do you improve a 59 LP? I agree with Julien, stick to the basics that got you there. A Studio and Standard is all you really need of each model. Give me quality in a Studio and a Standard. Nicer color options on the Studio's would improve their sales greatly. More along the lines of some of the classic bursts.
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drewfx1
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/28 20:30:11
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Keep in mind that they may be trying to sell to repeat customers, so therefore they might purposely create a whole bunch of variations that are just different enough.
In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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craigb
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/28 20:45:13
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Below is what my goal was with my custom guitars. All would have similar body styles, neck radii and lengths (except as noted). The idea is similar to a good set of golf clubs: Cover several requirements with something that, generally, feels the same to use.
1) 25" scale guitar - H/H with Variax circuitry - no trem - covers acoustic needs (had this, but was forced to sell)
2) 25" scale guitar - S/S/H Classic Rock tones with trem and TONS of tonal options (had this, but was forced to sell)
3) 25" scale guitar - S/S/H Modern tones with trem and extra tonal options (paid for, but on hold for now)
4) (Future) - 28" scale baritone guitar - H/H (probably modern tones)
5) (Future) - 30" scale short-scale 6-string bass - S/S/S (similar to Fender's)
6) (Future) - 25" scale 12-string guitar - ?/? Classic Rock tones
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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michaelhanson
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/28 20:45:32
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Repeat Customer would be … Black, Vintage Sunburst, Ice Tea, Honey Burst, Cherry Sunburst, Light Burst, Desert Burst, Transparent Red..... That gives me about 30k worth to collect and I haven't scratched the surface.
post edited by michaelhanson - 2016/03/28 21:50:39
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BobF
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/28 21:06:29
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I only have two Gibsons, both LPs, both bought shiny new. My '99 '57 Historic Black Beauty (2 pup) and a '14 Studio Pro, fireburst I think it's called.  This is before the SD pup swap in the Studio 
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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pwalpwal
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/29 07:48:13
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dmbaer A generation ago, he said, at least one guy in ten wanted to be a guitarist or drummer. These days, interest among the pre-teen/teenage generation has dramatically declined over the last couple of decades.
well my five-year-old wants to be a "rock guitarist" when he grows up :-) (as well as a train driver, tram driver and pilot)
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pwalpwal
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/29 08:01:08
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☄ Helpfulby BobF 2016/03/29 08:20:17
slartabartfast
When a herd of rappers with a drum machine backup becomes a super-band, why would you want to practice a difficult to acquire skill in your spare time. Heck, why even learn to mutter in the background while walking around a stage, when you can become a DJ and not have to create anything from scratch except the occasional scratch that is.
this is a massive over-simplification of both rap and dj "genres" (god i hate that word) - personally, i consider both of these (as well as others) to be modern folk music - people making music with the tools they have available, it's just that these days people are more likely to have a computer than a ****ing banjo knocking about the place /fwiw
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BobF
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Re: Gibson credit downgrade, selling Nashville property
2016/03/29 08:05:58
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pwalpwal
slartabartfast
When a herd of rappers with a drum machine backup becomes a super-band, why would you want to practice a difficult to acquire skill in your spare time. Heck, why even learn to mutter in the background while walking around a stage, when you can become a DJ and not have to create anything from scratch except the occasional scratch that is.
this is a massive over-simplification of both rap and dj "genres" (god i hate that word) - personally, i consider both of these (as well as others) to be modern folk music - people making music with the tools they have available, it's just that these days people are more likely to have a computer than a ****ing banjo knocking about the place
/fwiw
This is a very good point, IMO.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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