FastBikerBoy
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/07 17:05:10
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Jim Roseberry
Sitemester: when your ready to work this out !! Pm me I will sort it out !!
Firewire audio interface with "rogue" Firewire controller.
Replace with quality TI chipset unit... and the problem is solved. 
As a ZED-R16 user who recently bought a HP laptop for mobile DAW use I can confirm that is almost certainly the problem. As per my earlier post, plugged into laptop snap, crackle, & pop. Plug into TI chipset express card in same laptop - works perfectly.
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Guitarpima
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/07 18:32:58
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Jim Roseberry
Sitemester: when your ready to work this out !! Pm me I will sort it out !!
Firewire audio interface with "rogue" Firewire controller.
Replace with quality TI chipset unit... and the problem is solved.
Maybe suggest which one and where would be best? That's why I never bothered with firewire. It's tough to find what you want unless you know exactly what your looking for.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
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Jeff M.
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/07 18:39:59
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Platinum 64 RME UCX | Studio Cat Platinum: i7 2700k @ 4.5Ghz | 16Gb DDR3 | Win 7 64Komplete Kontrol S61 Gibson, Jackson, Parker, Suhr, Breedlove, Taylor, Lakland, Peavey, Marshall, Kemper
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/07 18:49:55
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Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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StarTekh
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/07 18:55:43
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Now if the user would just budge !! good work Jim !!
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/08 08:54:40
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Now if the user would just budge !! Well... that's the sad part of this The OP's problems can be solved for ~$30 (new TI chipset Firewire controller) The issue has nothing to do with software (Sonar or otherwise) And yes, NewEgg does have TI chipset Firewire controllers. Jeff M provided a link above
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Beepster
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/08 09:27:31
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The REALLY sad part is he's been suffering in silence for so long. He could have saved himself a lot of frustration. Oh well. Hopefully he can get things running smoothly now.
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Saxon1066
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/08 18:32:40
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vicsant
Excuse me, but what's wrong with the quick fix and the X2a patch?
Just finished an animation score which I did on X1d (btw, rock solid performance during the 3 weeks I was doing the animation score) and am about ready to install X2...
Please advise on whether to install the quickfix and X2 patch.
Thanks.
I'm one who complained about X2a performance on my Win7 x64 system. It's very sluggish on some of my high-track projects, and still buggy with take lanes. X1d is still working fine for me, and it looks great with SonarMods. If you have Win 8, you will probably be fine, like most people here. My problem with X2a also seems pretty rare and may not affect you at all. Why not go ahead and install? You can always go back to X1. I've also whined about switching to another DAW several times over the years, but Sonar is like a beautiful woman who is a pain in the A$$. I just can't walk away; she's too hot, and I know her already.
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Starbuckle
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/08 19:33:52
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I think it's cool that you came back and asked for help after all of that. Nicely done. It couldn't have been easy.
Duke
HP Pavilion dv7 Laptop, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit, Intel core i7 CPU @ 2.3 GHz, 8 gigs RAM, 1 TB Hard Drive, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 USB interface, X2 Producer 64 bit and very little talent!
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VariousArtist
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/08 20:10:11
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Suggested reading: "Why is a dedicated FireWire card with a Texas Instruments (TI) chipset important on a PC" http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/FAQ/en404647 Important quotes from the article above: "There are several FireWire chipset developers that build chips that are significantly cheaper than Texas Instruments, and for this reason, PC manufacturers are starting to use these less expensive chipsets. Unfortunately, many of these other chipsets are not as reliable as those manufactured by Texas Instruments. M-Audio cannot simply say only use Texas Instruments chipsets, because some of these other controllers actually work very well, and M-Audio does not want to endorse any particular manufacturer. " "Even if your motherboard has an on-board FireWire controller with a Texas Instruments chipset, you may encounter problems because all onboard devices, including the FireWire controller, are run through the Southbridge of the processor. This means that there is a lot of traffic that the FireWire signal must compete with for access to the processor (all USB, onboard audio, onboard video, serial ports, network controllers, etc...). Data coming from all of these devices creates a bottleneck and greatly increases the chance of the FireWire signal being interrupted. The interrupted data is dropped to maintain the delivery time of the rest of the data. When too much data is dropped, the audio signal may be appear as distorted, completely dropped, or the computer may even drop the connection with the FireWire audio device. To avoid this on a PC, we always advise installing a dedicated FireWire card. This is because the PCI bus runs to the Northbridge of the processor. The Northbridge provides more reliable access to the processor because it only manages the data from the PCI, AGP, and memory."
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/08 20:39:53
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VariousArtist
Suggested reading:
"Why is a dedicated FireWire card with a Texas Instruments (TI) chipset important on a PC"
http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/FAQ/en404647
Important quotes from the article above:
"There are several FireWire chipset developers that build chips that are significantly cheaper than Texas Instruments, and for this reason, PC manufacturers are starting to use these less expensive chipsets. Unfortunately, many of these other chipsets are not as reliable as those manufactured by Texas Instruments. M-Audio cannot simply say only use Texas Instruments chipsets, because some of these other controllers actually work very well, and M-Audio does not want to endorse any particular manufacturer. "
"Even if your motherboard has an on-board FireWire controller with a Texas Instruments chipset, you may encounter problems because all onboard devices, including the FireWire controller, are run through the Southbridge of the processor. This means that there is a lot of traffic that the FireWire signal must compete with for access to the processor (all USB, onboard audio, onboard video, serial ports, network controllers, etc...). Data coming from all of these devices creates a bottleneck and greatly increases the chance of the FireWire signal being interrupted. The interrupted data is dropped to maintain the delivery time of the rest of the data. When too much data is dropped, the audio signal may be appear as distorted, completely dropped, or the computer may even drop the connection with the FireWire audio device. To avoid this on a PC, we always advise installing a dedicated FireWire card. This is because the PCI bus runs to the Northbridge of the processor. The Northbridge provides more reliable access to the processor because it only manages the data from the PCI, AGP, and memory."
NICELY added, Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Sitemester
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/09 06:45:51
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Wow...... I'm truely greatfull of all the time and effort you guys put in to help me out. That alone make me regret my initial frustration.... And John - I understand your points of view in your latest post.... I have dedicated the coming weekend to systematically filter out all suggestions from the posts and start with the most obvious things to do ( Yeeees - I have ordered a TI chipset FW interface ) The other two computers are equipped with TI interfaces.... who knew... I will reinstall Win 7 x64 with the updates and service packs and then remove the network again and do (yet another) installation of X2. By the way: Anyone with experience on installing Sonar on a Solid State Drive ? Again - thanks a lot for your time and knowledge. I'll drop a line when it works.... Rgds Bruno
post edited by Sitemester - 2013/01/09 06:53:30
X2 Producer, 2 x 28" monitors, i7-3770, 32Gb RAM, 1 Tb SSD drives, 3 Tb HDD, Win 8 64 bit, A&H ZED R16 FW mixer
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/09 06:48:08
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Are you installing Windows & Sonar on a freshly formatted blank hard drive?
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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Sitemester
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/09 06:51:21
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Bristol_Jonesey
Are you installing Windows & Sonar on a freshly formatted blank hard drive?
Yes - I have done that every time with the major updates... 8.xx -> X1 -> X2
X2 Producer, 2 x 28" monitors, i7-3770, 32Gb RAM, 1 Tb SSD drives, 3 Tb HDD, Win 8 64 bit, A&H ZED R16 FW mixer
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Westside Steve
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/09 07:19:36
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Sorry for some reason I can't input text via speech with mobile devices. Anyway any experience I've ever had with tech support has been excellent. They've walked me through a few problems with success and never make me feel like an idiot. Even if I am...... WSS
post edited by Westside Steve - 2013/01/09 07:29:38
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/09 07:55:59
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Sitemester
Bristol_Jonesey
Are you installing Windows & Sonar on a freshly formatted blank hard drive?
Yes - I have done that every time with the major updates... 8.xx -> X1 -> X2
Ah, good. I was going to talk about Registry edits, but it's not necessary in this case.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/09 08:48:39
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Sitemester
Bristol_Jonesey
Are you installing Windows & Sonar on a freshly formatted blank hard drive?
Yes - I have done that every time with the major updates... 8.xx -> X1 -> X2
Sitemaster - I am SOOOO happy you stuck with this long enough to realize that once you actually posted some detail on your issues that a BUNCH of folks here in the forum rallied on your behalf to resolve the issues that caused that initial declaration of leaving. SOOO many times, people have silently struggled with one or more problems, never posting that things were broken, until one day they just sort of snapped and posted a giant "I'm OUTTA HERE" rant and poof they were gone. When people do that, it is very frustrating, because in just about ALL of those cases, were we in the forum given an opportunity to help, those users would have been able to get past those problems, either through some education, or by a collective application of assistance in debugging settings and hardware until the problems were resolved. You coming back to this, and HOPEFULLY regaining your sanity by ending up with a stable system, is a wonderful thing - I hope that moving forward, when you encounter any additional problems, or just have questions, that you now know that there are quite a few folks willing to go to great lengths to help. To the forum folks who continued to try to work these issues - you are a blessing to all of us. You have been there many times for me, and it is a principal motivating factor in my trying to make sure I am there for the next guy. Thank you. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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KPerry
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/09 09:32:41
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And the forum (for all its faults :-)) is one of the very good points about SONAR - you almost certainly will get help here if you come to it with the right attitude.
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cclarry
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/09 09:48:47
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Sitemester
Wow......
By the way: Anyone with experience on installing Sonar on a Solid State Drive ?
Again - thanks a lot for your time and knowledge. I'll drop a line when it works....
Rgds
Bruno
I have X2a installed on a SSD...it works fine....my Win 8 and Sonar drive is a 128 gb SSD and my instruments and libraries are on a 128 gb SSD. No problems... I started off by doing a fresh Win 7 install on my original HDD (system restore) and then cloned the drive to my SSD with Acronis True Image...all went without a hitch...afterwards, with SSD installed, I installed Sonar... When I upgraded to Win 8 I had to re-install everything, as it wouldn't let me do a "save programs" install. One thing to be aware of when installing non Win 8 programs is that when it tells you the program is not compatible there is a "More Info" button...if you press that a button appears that says "Install Anyways" Hit the button and everything installs and works fine... The only programs I have REAL issues with are IK Multimedia...the standalone applications don't recognize the Win 8 Quad Capture driver....so they won't work with it, but in Sonar they work just fine...all my other Win 7 programs work fine too... If you're staying with Win 7 then no worries...other then the typical ones...LOL Cheers!
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Sitemester
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/17 06:06:46
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Hi
Just a short feedback on all the suggestions and efforts.
I got another firewire Card with TI chipset.
I used most of the suggestion in order to get rid of dropout and crashes
And it actually Works..... but...
Now I get an insane distortion on both playback and recording.
It Works fine from 5 - 60 minuttes and then without warning or even touching anything a massive digital-like distortion takes over. One click on MIDI AUDIO RESET cures it for the Next 5-60 minuttes and then it goes again.
At first I thought it must be the audio engine in Sonar since clicking on reset helped - for a while - but by switching to the computers internal soundcard I can not recreate the distortion in playback mode. (And I havent recorded from the internal soundcard )
So - it could be audio engine, it could be the ZED R16 driver ( I have tried different version but it's the same. ) or even it's built in firewire Card.... - or maybe even an issue with the computers video Card as described somewhere in Cakewalks recommandations...
Do you have any experiences with this sort of problem ? Or even better: Any solutions ?
Thanks
Bruno
X2 Producer, 2 x 28" monitors, i7-3770, 32Gb RAM, 1 Tb SSD drives, 3 Tb HDD, Win 8 64 bit, A&H ZED R16 FW mixer
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/17 06:36:45
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Sitemester
Hi
Just a short feedback on all the suggestions and efforts.
I got another firewire Card with TI chipset.
I used most of the suggestion in order to get rid of dropout and crashes
And it actually Works..... but...
Now I get an insane distortion on both playback and recording.
It Works fine from 5 - 60 minuttes and then without warning or even touching anything a massive digital-like distortion takes over. One click on MIDI AUDIO RESET cures it for the Next 5-60 minuttes and then it goes again.
At first I thought it must be the audio engine in Sonar since clicking on reset helped - for a while - but by switching to the computers internal soundcard I can not recreate the distortion in playback mode. (And I havent recorded from the internal soundcard )
So - it could be audio engine, it could be the ZED R16 driver ( I have tried different version but it's the same. ) or even it's built in firewire Card.... - or maybe even an issue with the computers video Card as described somewhere in Cakewalks recommandations...
Do you have any experiences with this sort of problem ? Or even better: Any solutions ?
Thanks
Bruno
Hi, Bruno. I have a similar issue occurring with my Presonus 1818 VSL audio interface, and it is most certainly a driver issue for me, so maybe so with you too. I have been working with the Presonus tech support guys for about a month now, going back and forth with diagnostics and such, so hopefully they will fix something there. When my interface starts freaking out, it is after a much longer period, but it too gets a horrible noise for no apparent reason. I looked up the drivers for your ZED R16, and they seem to indicate Win 7 support, along with XP and Vista. Can you please let me know which drivers you have tried? Also, please let me know which operating system version you are using. Thanks, Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/17 07:15:47
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I have a similar issue occurring with my Presonus 1818 VSL audio interface, and it is most certainly a driver issue for me, so maybe so with you too. I have been working with the Presonus tech support guys for about a month now, going back and forth with diagnostics and such, so hopefully they will fix something there. When my interface starts freaking out, it is after a much longer period, but it too gets a horrible noise for no apparent reason. Do you have all power-management disabled for USB?
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/17 08:28:45
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@Jim, yeah, that's the first thing I do on a Windows install. The driver has some issues, and Presonus is sending me diagnostic apps to run to send them info so they can address them.
I am not sure, but do not think that the power management tab for USB hubs would apply to the Zed 16 issues, because if it starts working again without cycling the device it looks like it is not getting disconnected.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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riojazz
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/17 10:02:04
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Sitemester, yes, I have had that happen (insane distortion on FW-1884) after playing a video. In any event, do you know about the FW-1884 Control panel? It's a tiny icon in the system tray that looks like the unit. Adjust the Audio latency slider. On my older Core 2 Duo PC, I use 64 or 128. Higher and lower values give me ringing, distortion, and sometimes 'insane' distortion.
Software: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Adobe Audition; Band-in-A-Box audiophile; Izotope Ozone; Encore; Melodyne; Win 10 Pro, 64-bit. Hardware: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd; Roland Integra-7; TCE Finalizer; Presonus Central Station, Behringer X-Touch. Home built i7 with 16 GB RAM, SSDs.
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riojazz
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/17 10:06:00
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Jim Roseberry, for audio, should the USB Selective Suspend be Enabled or Disabled? And would a setting about USB power affect the FW-1884, a firewire device?
Software: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Adobe Audition; Band-in-A-Box audiophile; Izotope Ozone; Encore; Melodyne; Win 10 Pro, 64-bit. Hardware: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd; Roland Integra-7; TCE Finalizer; Presonus Central Station, Behringer X-Touch. Home built i7 with 16 GB RAM, SSDs.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/17 10:21:40
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Jim Roseberry, for audio, should the USB Selective Suspend be Enabled or Disabled? And would a setting about USB power affect the FW-1884, a firewire device? It should be disabled... but it would only affect USB audio/MIDI devices.
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Heroics
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/17 11:21:05
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Sitemester
That is it ! I have had it with Sonar.
7 days with no studio income because of X2 Producer. Nothing but dropouts, ticks, crashes, sudden distortion after countless hours of tweaking and no useful reply from support. X1 wasnt much better but at least it worked for a few hours every day with only a dozen engine stops and a few crashes and a little distortion here and there.
So.... Goodbye... Tomorrow I have to find a new program...
Any suggestions ? I mean GOOD suggestions that works day and night without agony...?
Its ur DELL it sucks for audio sure
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Heroics
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/17 11:22:34
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Heroics
Sitemester
That is it ! I have had it with Sonar.
7 days with no studio income because of X2 Producer. Nothing but dropouts, ticks, crashes, sudden distortion after countless hours of tweaking and no useful reply from support. X1 wasnt much better but at least it worked for a few hours every day with only a dozen engine stops and a few crashes and a little distortion here and there.
So.... Goodbye... Tomorrow I have to find a new program...
Any suggestions ? I mean GOOD suggestions that works day and night without agony...?
Its ur DELL it sucks for audio sure
Its a gaming PC ---my DELL was horrible 2 !!!! DELL not good for audio ,maybe one is good ....get HP .-.....or Toshiba
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vlab
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/17 11:36:44
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Hey guys !
I've been doing so many songs on Sonar on Dell computers ...
From an old P4 3.2ghz, to a Q6600 Precision desktop, now I'm on a Vostro 3750 business laptop ..
Never had a problem with Dell computers with Sonar ...
Dell might not have the right firewire chipset, or ram a little slower than someone would like,
but dismissing them in favor of HP, ends pretty much the same, Sonar works great on most computer,
and marginally worst on some system... and truth be told, the problem is always on the software/drivers/user side.
I don't see the point in dismissing a whole brand of computer maker to help anyone.
Cheers!
V
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Heroics
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Re:Goodbye Sonar - hello.......anything that works
2013/01/17 11:44:07
(permalink)
vlab
Hey guys !
I've been doing so many songs on Sonar on Dell computers ...
From an old P4 3.2ghz, to a Q6600 Precision desktop, now I'm on a Vostro 3750 business laptop ..
Never had a problem with Dell computers with Sonar ...
Dell might not have the right firewire chipset, or ram a little slower than someone would like,
but dismissing them in favor of HP, ends pretty much the same, Sonar works great on most computer,
and marginally worst on some system... and truth be told, the problem is always on the software/drivers/user side.
I don't see the point in dismissing a whole brand of computer maker to help anyone.
Cheers!
V
my Dell inspiron was a absolute no Go for audio ! face truth
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