tlw
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/18 23:26:55
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I've a big problem with amp sims in that I own real, hardware versions of much of the stuff I would need to simulate to get my basic setup.
I've yet to find an amp sim that actually sounds or behaves like the hardware version of what they claim to emulate. They also require very careful gain staging unless you want your low-output vintage style Strat or Tele to sound like some pointy heavy metal machine. The Sansamp Character series are reasonably close and, in my opinion, react and feel much more like and amplifier.
Out of the software emulators I find Amplitube the least offensive, though its models of the Orange Tiny Terror and Fender valve reverb don't sound or feel like the real thing. Nor for that matter does their Marshall plexi.
Another option is something like the Blackheart B1H1, a quarter watt valve amp that's not outrageously expensive. Add a small speaker cab and it's a very nice setup at domestic volume levels.
One thing to watch with vst amp sims is latency. You will be monitoring the guitar via Sonar's input echo. Unless your DAW and interface can give you a "round trip" time of 10 milliseconds or less expect to find it rather difficult to play accurately (or at all) as the gap between playing the not and actually hearing it come out of your monitors gets very noticable once latency gets much over 10ms.
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caminitic
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/19 00:02:01
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tlw
I've a big problem with amp sims in that I own real, hardware versions of much of the stuff I would need to simulate to get my basic setup.
I've yet to find an amp sim that actually sounds or behaves like the hardware version of what they claim to emulate. They also require very careful gain staging unless you want your low-output vintage style Strat or Tele to sound like some pointy heavy metal machine.
This best summarizes my daily struggle with amp sims...especially surrounded by the guitar-rich community of Nashville and wiz-player sessions. I have yet to capture a WARM, creamy, sustaining tone, similar to today's modern country styles using any of the amp sims out there. Not the AC/DC sounding cheese of Brantley Gilbert or Jason Aldean, but the stuff on recent McGraw and Blake Shelton tunes. I'm sure a lot are double tracked...or more...and played by the top players in the world through the best gear in the best studios in the world...so I'm not a (total) dope. Just once I would love to pick up my real guitar, plug it into my fake guitar amp (lol), and have it sound like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4CDXtBqKcA
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metz
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/19 01:37:58
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Bear in mind if you like me have a dislike for licencers that the Scuffham will give you another of those soft licencers running in the background of your computers.
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yellowcake64
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/19 06:22:32
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Will latency be a problem with software sims using something like a Focusrite 6i6 via direct monitoring?
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leekit1
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/19 07:15:17
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Really dumb question(I'm a newbie)....I can't even find Overloud in the plug-in's. I have the Studio version.....what am I missing??
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lawajava
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/19 08:35:33
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yellowcake64 - you will get all kinds of help here on the forum to get your latency under control. I have three kinds of audio interfaces. I switch between two for just the reason you've asked. I use a Focusrite for everything but guitar recording essentially. It's easy in Sonar to switch between two audio interfaces if you happen to have more than one. My second, the one I use for guitar recording, is a Line 6 KB-37. Very affordable, lots of upsides in capabilities, and completely unnoticeable latency. With effects applied and fully loaded when monitoring it is real time, sounds like it's coming out of an amp. Here are a couple links about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRpCXWSC8TEhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwBR1OfHRtMI should note that I'm the only one who ever mentions this device. But I can say that it works as I've described and I use it all the time for that purpose.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/19 09:53:39
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Scuffham uses challenge/response, as far as I know there is no background licenser running. Maybe this changed recently, I've only had it for six months or so.
Yellowcake64, you can not use a "direct monitoring" feature while playing through an ampsim. Direct monitoring is a feature of your soundcard which basically sends the input signals right back out, meaning not passing through any other software. This helps to keep latency down for recording purposes but means you won't be able to use any VST based FX during recording. If you want to use FX like ampsims while recording, you need to use the "normal" route and fidget with the buffer size until you get acceptable roundtrip latency settings. Quite possible though, with a reasonably modern computer and your soundcard. You may have to adjust settings again when your project fills up with tracks and fx, but for recording you will be able to make it work.
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Maarkr
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/19 10:40:59
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i've hardly used the TH2 cause it didn't do much for me... I didn't spend the time to really learn the fine tuning of it, and it reminded me of the amp sim in UAD, which i didn't like. Haven't used GR5 much, but I like some of the sounds on it. I've used Amp. 3 for years because of the variety. What you want to look for is their 'group buy' sale where you buy one and get two or so free. Depending on how many people buy them, they offer more. I have their SVX for bass, Amp Metal, Amp Fender, and the Orange series. You get that many amps and you can do about whatever you want, IMO. there's this review: http://www.musicradar.com...the-world-today-427789
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Paul P
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/19 10:59:50
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sharke
I've thought about this too, but I guess at the end of the day these amp sims are more suited toward recording guitar, not sitting around jamming.
I'm not much of a guitar player, and maybe this only applies to loud rock, but watching others I thought that there was some sort of interaction between the player/guitar and the sound coming back at them from the cab. I can't see this happening through software and studio monitors. How do you simulate the sound from the speaker feeding back to guitar and strings ?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/19 11:09:55
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If you play your monitors loud enough this works the same way. I can get feedback tones and all that.
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stevec
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/19 15:20:57
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Same here. I also use a Vox Tonelab live through a keyboard amp, and I can get feedback there as well. Just like a real amp you need to push a few molecules around. 
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caminitic
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/21 10:28:01
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Just to speak firsthand on the Scuffman amps...I downloaded the demo...brought it into X3...and
WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The range of tones and sounds is beyond incredible. My biggest problem with other amp sims is that those presets were just soooooo ridiculous and required so much tweaking. Fuzzy outer space sounding, some of the ones I tried. I've barely made my way through 30-40 of these and am already sold HOOK, LINE, AND SINKER.
No...I don't work for the company at all. Hee hee. I totally recommend it for any guitarists out there looking for different. And by different, I mean awesome. And by awesome, I mean totally awesome.
I'll be enjoying the 15 day full demo before purchasing it. Thanks for whomever on this thread mentioned checking it out. =)
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hockeyjx
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/21 11:36:33
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You always have to tweak the stock presets to get the sound you are after. What might sound good when you track may might need to be changed during a mix - and that is the beautiful advantage of the sim.
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Ibanezer
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/21 13:54:23
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When I read these posts about Amp sims I always wonder what some people are using to "monitor" these sounds. I can just see the programers in their laboratories with the greatest flat response tube amps and high quality speakers getting it as good as possible only to have their products be monitored through some crappy earbuds or mediocre studio monitors or laptop to solid state guitar practice amp. I think that is one of the bigger components of the system as a whole. Seems to never come up in these discussions. I bought a Carvin TS100 tube amp and some 1x12s and my GR5 presets sound night and day different from my daw when recording straight in.
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hockeyjx
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/21 14:35:56
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/21 15:07:34
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caminitic
Just to speak firsthand on the Scuffman amps...I downloaded the demo...brought it into X3...and
WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The range of tones and sounds is beyond incredible. My biggest problem with other amp sims is that those presets were just soooooo ridiculous and required so much tweaking. Fuzzy outer space sounding, some of the ones I tried. I've barely made my way through 30-40 of these and am already sold HOOK, LINE, AND SINKER.
No...I don't work for the company at all. Hee hee. I totally recommend it for any guitarists out there looking for different. And by different, I mean awesome. And by awesome, I mean totally awesome.
I'll be enjoying the 15 day full demo before purchasing it. Thanks for whomever on this thread mentioned checking it out. =)
I would like to take credit for that, although I had nothing to do with the actual software :) I had the same experience though, and I'm not even a guitarist. Bought it in a "quest for the ultimate ampsim", after the TH2 upgrade, Waves Guitars, Amplitube 3 with a lot of expansions (some of which I really do like) and GR5. It's just great, and became my go-to ampsim unless I really need a feature it doesn't have (which isn't that often). I have DynAudio BM5As btw, since we're sharing :)
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lbk3918
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/21 15:28:50
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FWIW I think the included TH2 is pretty good - I especially like the THD Univalve amp.
I also like the Softube Acoustic Feedback plugin which gives some extra realism when playing hi-gain, it makes it feel more like a tube amp.
Here is an example track I did using both of those for the lead sound;
(embedding soundcloud doesn't seem to work here)
Cheers,
Laurence.
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lbk3918
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/21 15:33:47
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Try again, link didn't seem to work above;
Maybe this time!
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tlw
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/21 17:05:34
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Monitoring? The same Genelec system I use to monitor hardware guitar stuff post tracking with no problems at all.
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Ibanezer
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/21 17:50:02
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I guess what I meant was how could anybody tell if you were actually hearing the sim in it's intended state unless you had the same equipment as the programers. They all sound pretty darn good to me at times. I guess I really don't care if this one sounds exactly like a certain tweed with a certain mic and that one sounds exactly like one of the hundreds of Marshall systems. Maybe as a studio owner you would could get a request for a specific amp setup. It's all art to me! 
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TheStringMaster
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/21 18:18:53
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Ibanezer
I guess what I meant was how could anybody tell if you were actually hearing the sim in it's intended state unless you had the same equipment as the programers. They all sound pretty darn good to me at times. I guess I really don't care if this one sounds exactly like a certain tweed with a certain mic and that one sounds exactly like one of the hundreds of Marshall systems. Maybe as a studio owner you would could get a request for a specific amp setup. It's all art to me!
+1
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Anderton
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/21 18:47:58
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hockeyjx
You always have to tweak the stock presets to get the sound you are after.
Unless the person who created the preset plays the same guitar, with the same pickups, strings, picking style, picking force, and pick type you use...and likes the same kind of music I've mentioned this story before but it's worth repeating. I had done quite a bit of editing to my original POD and got many sounds I liked out of it, so I was really looking forward to POD II. But when I plugged in, the heavy distortion sounds were awful and I couldn't understand how Line 6 lost the recipe so badly in an "improved" model. Then when I turned down the drive control by about 25-30%, everything fell right into place. I play with a thumbpick and use 010s; I bet whoever did the presets used a thin flat pick and 009s.
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Anderton
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/21 18:49:56
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TheStringMaster
Ibanezer
I guess what I meant was how could anybody tell if you were actually hearing the sim in it's intended state unless you had the same equipment as the programers. They all sound pretty darn good to me at times. I guess I really don't care if this one sounds exactly like a certain tweed with a certain mic and that one sounds exactly like one of the hundreds of Marshall systems. Maybe as a studio owner you would could get a request for a specific amp setup. It's all art to me!
+1
Another +1. I don't want my amp sim to sound like a Marshall, I want to sound like the perfect, idealized Marshall sound I hear in my head...and it takes a lot of effort to get there.
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tlw
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/21 22:53:31
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While I plug a guitar into a pedal board (or not, depending) then reverb then amp and out comes the sound I want. Takes less time than it took me to type this.
OK, there is effort in selecting gear, getting the settings right etc., no setting is ever exactly duplicatable and it requires committing to a particular basic sound at the tracking stage which is the downside of doing things the old-fashioned way.
In the end we all use what we prefer, what we've got and what we can afford, though not necessarily in that order :-)
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Anderton
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/21 23:32:49
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I think a lot of people have bought into the hype from manufacturers about emulation instead of simply evaluating products on their own merits, for what they do.
Nothing creates the sound of a tube amp better than a...tube amp. This shouldn't come as a surprise. However, no tube amp can create the sounds that are possible to obtain with amp sims. Nor is there any law against using amp sims with physical cabinets or tube pres with virtual cabinets.
I ditched guitar amps decades ago and went for FRFR keyboard amps and/or PA systems because I didn't like the sound of guitar amps, except for specific applications. Also I could have much more fun with feedback because I could almost "tune" it, which I couldn't do to the same degree with amps. The reason why I started designing my own effects like the Quadrafuzz was to create sounds that translated well over FRFR systems.
However, the fact remains that a guitar amp is a very complex and sophisticated signal processor; when you want that sound, an amp will do it best. So, for those applications I have a versatile Line 6 DT25, a Peavey Windsor (which is very tolerant of tube substitutions), and an Orange Tiny Terror that kicks butt. For the sounds I hear in my head, I have amp sims.
To me, there are only two elements to the debate. Does an amp sim playing back at moderate volumes through studio monitors give the same experience as standing in front of a stack of Marshalls? No. Can a stack of Marshalls make the sounds I really like that are based on amp sims? No.
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mettelus
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/22 08:40:04
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BenMMusTech
[...] One thing though...I would get a tube pre amp to patch your guitar into. The amount of extra wow and sizzle not to mention sustain that a tube pre amp gives will knock your socks off. [...]
Ben
Ben makes a nice point... back when I was first learning guitar I chose specifically to blow off effects till I proved I had a passion to play, but still needed a good amp. After a lot of research I went with a Carvin tube amp (MOSFET technology was in its infancy then, so a "tube simulation" was a flaky proposition done "digitally"). Sadly, that amp had been sitting like a piece of furniture for over 10 years due to the "amp sims" (including pedal boxes) and the ease of using them. I just recently pulled that amp apart and cleaned the pots in it, and is like having a new toy all over again. I had forgotten how nice that amp sounds stand-alone, and I have no amp sim that sounds similar (I own GR5 and TH2). I have not researched this at all lately, but real tubes make the real sound of a tube amp. I had shifted to running "clean audio" into X3 (so I can modify it later "at will"), but am now rethinking this strategy...
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/22 09:11:27
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I think playing through a real amp is still really nice, and I don't get to do it too often at home. That doesn't necessarily always translate to a good recording or mix though, for many reasons :)
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Ibanezer
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/22 09:31:31
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Hey Mettelus is your Carvin the TS100? I really like mine. I have the guitar rig 5 with their pedal. It's cool to mic all that and then run another line straight into the daw. Gets both worlds and options for later
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hockeyjx
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/22 12:25:33
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Out of curiosity, I wonder if a lot of people who use the traditional setup have their opinion altered from hearing the amp in all it's glory in a live room or JUST the mic'd signal.
Because a Marshall in a room of course has more power than a sim.
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Anderton
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Re: Guitar amp simulator software
2014/08/22 12:44:33
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hockeyjx
Out of curiosity, I wonder if a lot of people who use the traditional setup have their opinion altered from hearing the amp in all it's glory in a live room or JUST the mic'd signal.
Because a Marshall in a room of course has more power than a sim.
That is an EXCELLENT point. One of the first things I do with any amp sim is to build an environment for it. Also note that when you play through an amp, you're moving around and because you're in a room, the frequency spectrum changes constantly and adds animation to the sound. If you put your ear three inches from a Marshal's speaker cone, it's not going to sound all that great.
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