Has anyone used a Smart Compressor in mastering?

Hey Jeff, I haven't heard or used the Smart C2 but I do know about it, what sort of music are you trying to master??  This will determin if the compressor is up for the task.

As for the MultiBand compressor and EQ, steer clear of the linar phase 64EQ, I whacked that over the master buss a couple of months ago and I thought I heard some phasing going on, I was using a pair of Beyerdynamic dt990's so I know I can rely on them.

I've looked over the specs of the C2 and it's a bit like my TL Audio A2, I love VCA compressor's now, they can add some real punch to masters but I wouldn't use it for everything as I say it depends on the music you are mastering.  It may be tricky to set as well, this is because it has limited attack and release settings, the TLAudio A2 has even more limited settings and so getting it to do what you want does take some knowledge and time.

Hope that helps Jeff, Ben

Thanks Ben and Hi Danny, I am glad it is you that has some experience with this. It means I will get an answer! Seeing as you had to use several fairly expensive plugins in order to get the sound, the obvious and easy way (and no cost) is for me to use the actual Smart Compressor itself. It is basically in a rack at the college where I teach and it rarely gets used! I can unrack it and bring it home easily.

I am not in a position to go out and buy a UAD card right now but I can easily get my hands on the Smart Compressor instead. Thanks for that link to that article. I did track that down previously and it is good as it goes through some settings.

The music is very well mixed and is mainly on the quieter and acoustic side. Even when drums are present they are more laid back, not a killer rock drum sound or anything. Electric guitars but clean and placed well. Almost dreamy like quality to the music. More about the songs and vocals really.

So I will be going for some more laid back but present type of compression. (just a touch of attitude!) Can it do it? I see it has got stepped ratio settings and the lowest is 1.5:1 I think but that should be OK or even 2:1 maybe.

The mixes are going to require very little EQ so I think I will do that digitally, no big reason to do that analog.

Thanks Danny.  I agree it seems to have a bit of a rep for being aggressive but I am confident that it can be set in such a way that it sounds very relaxed and not aggressive at all. I believe you can use any compressor that way. It really comes down to how one sets it up. Also not all the tunes on this album are laid back and delicate either, some of them rock it out a bit so I am sure they will benefit for sure.

I also found another SOS review on it as well and that was pretty informative too in terms of settings. They all say the AUTO setting for release is very hard to beat. I am not sure about the CRUSH setting though!

I am going to get it tomorrow and give it a whirl. I will let you know how it goes.

If I was going to buy a plugin I am curious which one would be good for more laid back mixes and very transparent sound. I see NI have released some new plugs. Also what about this one:

http://www.ikmultimedia.c...moreinfo/moreinfo4.php

Hey Danni and interested others. I hooked up the Smart C2 compressor tonight and did some preliminary tests. Yes very nice indeed and it can be tamed to relax over more subtle material. Unlike most compressors and they say this in the reviews and that it is a little brighter when in. It does not loose any top end it gains a little on the way.

Danni I would not mind knowing if I am in the ball park with some of these observations. You are someone that has spent time with this compressor. Attack, I seem to like it with longer attacks 10 ms and even 30 ms sounds great to me. Release. I agree with you about the Auto function. The reviewers say they liked it but I found it a bit long maybe. As soon as you go back to fixed settings it seems to jump back to life. I think I will find my own Releases. Ratio, so far 1.5 and 2 to 1 are great. Threshold you can slam it, and it still sounds nice. But with the threshold higher it can be more relaxed. Those VU's take a little getting used to.

I agree about as soon as you switch it out you suffer withdrawl symptoms. Even if you get the totally unmatsered signal at exactly the same level as the C2, when the C2 comes in I love what happens in the stereo image. Does it get big or am I imagining it. Rocky material, it sounds amazing. Easy to get it sounding huge. For me its about keeping the very acoustic tracks in check. That will take longer. Crush sounds very obvious to me and might be a little savage. But on some tracks it might be good. I have got the LP64 EQ on the stereo buss just before the signal goes out to the C2. After?

It's late here and I have only done everything at 80 db SPL or less. Tomorrow I want to see how it sounds loud.

Thanks Danny for your help. You have been very helpful on this. Yesterday I basically practiced with it and have got used to how it sounds. It can be set to basically not do much at all other than just create a smoother level vibe.

The stereo image of course does not change but it just seems like the extreme left and right tips of the image tend to come back into view with the C2 on. I don't mind the VU's now. I think the main thing they are good for is telling you how much gain reduction is going on and that is their intention. I am not hitting even -4 that often (how much gain reduction are you into as well?) With some of the more delicate tracks I am finding -3 db average of GR sounds nice. Even though you think there is not much going on, when you switch it out you really hear that still. (withdrawals !)

I probably spent too much time with the one song yesterday now I think of it but it still interesting in hearing how the mix changes and the sound of the stereo track while you are adjusting the C2. This client loves M Ward and I have got that playing as a reference all the time. (only the relevant tracks too, some of them are way over mastered) I can switch the ref track in any time.

It is great to reference EQ too. I am happy with the EQ being before the C2 as well. I am amazed at how in the EQ I have only got a peak that goes less than 1 db high and yet its effect is massive. I am doing just some very slight but broad brush stroke mid range and upper mid EQ just to bring out the mix slightly. Also that build up around 250 Hz area needs a little dip there too. The EQ works a treat. It must effect what the C2 does and how it behaves as well.

Crush is strong and probably mighty in a buss situation over anything I would imagine. I am just not going to use it on these nice mixes. Changes them way too much and then I would have to EQ everything back to normal, unnecessary.

Attitude is a word I like to use to describe compressors. This one adds attitude to the music, even a laid back delicate mix. The music just suddenly takes on a sit up and take notice pal or else sort of vibe!

I think I am starting to fall in love.  But I know there are other ways to get this effect and I am so digital ITB like you believe me. (The other day though I lapsed and listened to all the music I composed and produced using all tape analog setup with a room full of analog and digital synths all mixed with analog mixers and outboard and I just thought,  OMG that sounds very good! Am I ever going to be able to do that now with my all ITB world! But actually I say yes I can because most of the time I am hearing it when I am in all ITB)

I am never cranking it anywhere near the possibility of the snare or kick getting changed in any way. I don't want to damage anything in the music especially transients. But there are settings that still make the C2 very obvious and pleasant without any damage being inflicted onto the music. Today I am going to try some gutsy tracks and see what it can do. It will probably excel. I did the delicate music first because it is the hardest to deal with I think.

I just love 1.5:1 ratio but 2: 1 is great as well. I had a long chat with a fellow engineer friend who knows a lot about it and he said its OK to keep the releases not too long. He said he would only go as high as .6 seconds rarely. I had .6 over one of the slower tracks and it sounded cool. But .3 seconds and lower releases are nice too. It bounces back a little faster and it is a bit more in your face but only gently so. You never hear any pumping or silly artifacts that much either.

There are two ways for me to get the analog signal out and back in. I have only checked out one way so far. I need to try the other just in case it sounds different or better. It might. The other way for me is the Yamaha digital mixer I use as my central device. I know the Yamaha is just a wee bit bright so it might add something there. I hear what you say about the sound of the top end of the C2. You say it sounds analog and I think that in some ways it adds a bit of dark but also because of the warmth added one can hear the top end getting a little more so as well.

My friend said I should come into his setup and use his Aurora converters for getting out and back in. I would have to do all the C2 tweaking there. I don't know his speakers as well. I bet they (Aurora) sound good as well I am sure. I am using the equivalent to HD 192 interface converters but I like what I am hearing so it can't be all bad.

You think you are the only one that can write a novel. We are the novel writers. Between us no one could write any more!

Hey Jeff, I'm with danny on UAD plugs, i hated the bomb factory 1176, then I got the UAD version and I love it, also the Fairchild limiter is a goto plug.  I use the Pultec EQ a lot too esp for mastering and would use that over the phase linear EQ, what the Pultec seems to do is give a bump in the low-mids somwhere even before you tweak it.

Peace
Sorry don't mean to but into your converstaion but I was interested in the dialouge about the C2. 

Actually Jeff, I guess it depends on your exact mastering procedure. No matter how great something is on my end or who it comes from, I have a ritual of editing and manually leveling that needs to be done at all times. Like for example, I just don't bring something into my mastering DAW and do it. There are 2 phases the audio has to go through first for me. THEN I bring it into my DAW to be mastered.

By the time I get it into the DAW, I actually CAN use nearly the same compressor settings for just about everything on the album once I create the template for the first song. Mind you, if something on the album is super soft, it wouldn't get the same treatment as a song on the album with power and grit. But for the most part, once I go through "my phases" the template I create of course gets tweaked per song, but the settings don't change drastically unless the songs change drastically. The manual leveling procedure really helps in this area as well as eliminating peaks that stick out like sore thumbs. I zoom in so tight to control them, that process alone can take me nearly an hour for a song. But when all is said and done, and you are at a solid and consistent -3dB and ready for the actual mastering procedure, you'll find that you won't be tweaking compressors like crazy.

I mean honestly speaking...we're really not using enough compression to make a huge difference when we master...we're just gluing things together a little and making things more consistent while maintaining dynamics. And of course when we get to the limiter stage...we're doing the same thing with the final volume push. Even after that though, I'll STILL run one more manual leveling adjustment if need be after everything has been completely processed and mastered. I just feel things sound better for me that way and I can maintain consistency without allowing the limiter to have its way with the song. So I go a little lighter on the limiter than most people may and then I control things on my own manually. It sounds like it takes a long time to do (which it did at first) but I rip through it pretty fast these days. The good thing about my first two phases is, besides manual leveling and peak control, I'm eliminating every pop, click, lack of crossfade, oscillation and snert that can be heard...and some that can't be heard by most people. I'm totally anal with my mastering jobs to the point of insanity but thank God it's paid off and my clients love the work as well as working with me. So though I'm a weirdo that probably takes extra steps in doing this stuff, it's definitely made a difference for those I've worked with. :)

-Danny

Help Danny!!! I have done all the mastering and the client is over the moon and so am I. The C2 did a wonderful job. But we have a problem. He wants it louder now. I have got it fairly loud and IMO it is a fine volume but he is comparing it now to other louder CD's. This really narks me now because it should be able to be left alone!

OK you say the PSP is a good choice. I cannot afford it right now and he is not willing to pay more but I see the demo functions for 14 days. Is this right and I think this one does not need an ILock as well would that be right too?

We are probably only wanting about 3 db on where it is now so I asume it going to be able to do it without too much stress. It sounds fantastic now and I really do not want to loose an ounce of quality just for the sake of loudness. Can the PSP do it?

http://www.pspaudioware.c..._processors/psp_xenon/

What about the Slate Digital limiter. It is also meant to be a cracker too. Do you or anyone know anything about that one.

http://www.slatedigital.com/fgx.php

Hey Danni  It's all good. He does want it louder but not much thank god. And certainly not like smashed up to a high volume. The PSP demo works for 14 days, does not need an ILock and it is fully functional. So I will be able to put it through its paces and see how it goes. I see a few very respectable mastering engineers have endorsed it. I think your recommendation for the PSP is a good one. I have got a good feeling about it. It is also K system setup and I really like that too.

It's not like the tracks are soft or anything like that just  maybe 3 or 4 db below a well mastered acoustic/electric track so it should be achievable. Any recommendations for settings on the Xenon remembering the music is mostly acoustic with drums and things but just not kickass like. More subtle. I realise you are manily dealing with music that is more full on than what I am working on here. There are two kickass tracks on this CD but the rest are more laid back etc..

Love the C2 though. (that tiger can be tamed!) The client is very happy and the mix engineer is considering using me for the project he is curently working on depending on how this one comes out so I am keen to do a good job. I might try and get my hands on the API you mentioned and see how that stacks up too. I can compare it as well to the C2. The LP64 did a magnificent job EQ wise too.

It's interesting you mentioned turning up the mix and see how is stands up loud. At the moment the way I have mastered it the volume can be cranked up to insane levels and it still sounds great so I must be in the ball park. It has passed the car test as well with flying colours. I have got a great car stereo though which helps a bit. It is well balanced and the bottom end is very smooth and natural unlike most car stereos!

The other thing too is that the client was more worried about level comparisons on I Tunes. So I might be able to do two versions of this. A slightly louder more relaxed one for the CD and maybe a harder even louder one for the mp 3 files on I Tunes. That is one way to get around it.

Thanks for your help too it has been invaluable.

Hey Danny  Just downloaded and installed PSP Xenon and did a quick test. Very nice indeed, yes you are right it is a very nice limiter indeed. I was able to push 3 to 4 db straight out of the box without any effort and the music still sounds great so I am one very happy camper here.

I also like the fact that it dithers down to 16 bit as well all in the same process. The files are all 24 bit you see and I was importing everything into Sonar to just convert from 24 bit down to 16 bit at the last minute using the POW 3 process but it seems Xenon can handle all that too.

K System metering is also a bonus for me. It just means I cam reading everything at K levels etc which is great too.

But for those of you who might be wondering can I use this over my stereo two buss mix in your session, I am sure you can, but this is NOT the same thing as running your mix through a million dollar compressor first like the Smart C2 and then doing the limiting afterwards. That is a very different story.

Hey Danni now you are starting to scare me. LOL! I respect your opinion a lot and if you say those Emperical Labs thingies are good then they must be! I am just getting over the C2!

My mastering work may be taking an upward trend so I am keen to get a compressor. I am still keen to check out the API 2500. You seemed pretty excited about that one. I should be able to arrange a unit from the distributers here in Australia.

I love the fact too that you just don't mind using the virtual equivalents of these things. That is probably the way to go because all of these in hardware cost an arm and a leg and you can get so much for less money in terms of the UAD card and the plugins.

We have got a (hardware) distressor at the college I teach at too but I gather that is not so much a mastering tool or is it? I brought home the C2 because I thought it was the better choice for what I was doing. The only downside is tomorrow I have to take it back!

I would like to very much thank Danny for his recommendation of the PSP Xenon limiter. I am just amazed. I have just finished a long session doing all the limiting work over the tracks and I must say it sounds huge and loud! You are a gem Danny and I mean that! I cannot thank you enough!

I pushed things up 6 db would you believe and he still wanted to go higher! I got 8 to 9 db out in the end (that is over an above where I left it and that was loud!) it is loud but still way punchy and not distorted either. That limiter can match current levels well. What is amazing about it is the amount of control you have via all the controls (over 10!) over how that limiter actually sounds while it is limiting. Most limiters give no such control. They have some sort of input drive and output ceiling control. Boring! This thing is stunning. The 4 rotary controls are complex but after a while you can start to hear the changes in your music in terms of transients, punch, loudness, firmness etc.. I have found you really have to get the EQ right on the sound before it hits this limiter.

The sound of this limiter depends on how well your spectrum is setup going in. Some of tracks turned out to be over bassy in the very low register. It was not playing well with the limiter at all. But after a cleanup down there things took a major turn for the better. You have to keep an eye on your mid range presence in your tracks too. Many tracks out there are pushing that forward right now. But it is easy to dial it in and if you have got a great mix then the mids and upper mids can be pushed forward a bit and then the whole thing explodes through this limiter!  Getting the EQ right before hitting the C2 makes a huge difference as well.

You can get all worked up about the loudness wars but I say switch your paradigm and go with it and have fun with it! Make your tracks damn loud and compete directly with the stuff out there and keep the music sounding great while you do it. You can always limit your own music the way you want but when a client comes to you and says he needs his music loud then you can do that too. Give it to him. I think there is a sane amount of distortion that can be tolerated in exchange for loudness! I can still hear distortion in every loud master that is out there though. They all have one thing in common and that is things get distorted in some sort of a way. I still also believe we should back off a little and turn our amps up a little more!

You can make things incredibly loud with this limiter. It is serious weapon! This thing is worth every penny.

Guys, this has been an increadible discussion.  You actually got me....some one who conciders UAD 2 to be well out of my reach at the moment,....to go to their website and start reading up on all of these plugs.  I hope to be at your experience level one of these days and be able to put some of this knowledge to use.

I still honeslty, just struggle with compressors and hearing and understanding what I am doing.  Getting better, but my ears are not trained as well as I  would like yet.


Jeff...don't know if you are allowed  too, but some before and afters would have been kind of cool to hear.

Jeff, forget those upload places man....they kill all your sound. Just grab drop box and put the mp3's in Drop Box your public folder, right click on the file for a link, paste the link here...you got an instant server without worrying about quality loss. If you decide to try it, use my link for a reference so it gives me more free space. http://db.tt/hSpWEaF

MakeShift: Huge post for you here, but I believe you will enjoy the read. Your struggle is common. The first thing that I think is essential when learning about compression, is having examples presented to you so you know what to listen for as well as how to listen for them. For example, when I teach compression to my students (which is one of the most requested for me) I have to literally show them examples of how and why you'd use certain compressors as well as how the settings all work. It's like...if you're a guitar player, and I show you a Dm scale and I don't show you how you would use it, you're basically stuck with 2 options.

1. You play the scale verbatim and it always sounds like a scale just the way you learned it.

2. You hopefully use your creativity and attempt to expand it on your own.

I think the better method of course is #2, however, it to really get your creativity going, it would help if I said "ok, here's this Dm scale we learned. Now I'm going to fire up different backing tracks and show you 5 ways you can use it." Now the black clouds part and your juices are flowing because you've been shown examples. You'll find out that though we may be playing in Dm at times, I may not start on the notes as I taught them to you. I may be playing something else and then incorporate part of the scale in...I may start on the second note of the scale the way I taught you which would change the mode of the scale...yet, we're still in Dm.

All that stuff, is the same with learning a compressor. It's just a "scale" until someone shows you how to really use it by example. Each ratio, attack time, threshold and release time has a value that will alter your music in some way. When we start messing with all this stuff, it's just like adding stuff in that Dm minor scale. We change modes, we use tension....it's really the same principal. But the key in all of it, is to know what and how to listen for these things.

Compressors are the most "dark art" of all the effects in my opinion because they have so many uses, yet people sometimes cannot hear them. That's where it gets nuts and this is where the art of it comes in. When using a compressor, it's what you don't hear sometimes that actually makes it correct. That said, it's not a matter of not hearing it...it's a matter of not hearing the EFFECTS of it.

For example, let's say we have a bass guitar where the player isn't very good. He uses his fingers but he's not a consistent "puller" on the strings. This is going to make what he plays sound like it's all over the place. Sometimes you'll hear his bass, other times it will fade into the abyss. Proper tone is key here as well...but let's say we've already taken care of the tone issue and we like what we hear.

For a guy like this...depending on how bad he is as well as how good or bad the bass is, how well it's set up...all this will determine what we may have to do. Sounds like a lot doesn't it? And we've not even compressed him yet! I'm using this sceanrio because this is something just about all amateur engineers are faced with at some point in their mixing endeavors. So let's proceed onward. :)

Ok, let's make this a non-extreme situation so I don't totally confuse you. So we have a good tone, the bass is good, but we have inconsistencies. So we run a compressor on this guy...but which do we use? Just abotu anything will work, right? Not always...again...it depends on what you're dealing with. But for this example, let's say a Sonitus compressor is all you have. It usually works for most things. So we put it on the bass...how do we set it? what do all these things really do and how can this thing help me with my problem?

The first thing I do, is tap the back of my mind for information with ratios. The way I've learned compression is to always start with a ratio that best compliments that particular instrument. Here's a little run-down on ratio situations that have worked for me for the past 30 years and then we'll get back to our bass guitar issue.

1:5: This is a safe ratio that you can use if you've compressed destructively going to disc. I use this on my electric guitars after they've been recorded. Why you may ask? I like the sound of my hardware compressors going to disc but I don't want to abuse them and ruin the audio. So I set the hardware comps to just give me a nicely conditioned signal which literally gives you better quality tracks in the long run as long as you don't abuse it. So 1:5 ratio is going to work nicely on my guitars with a threshold of about -12, 3.5 ms attack, maybe a 300-400 release. This is going to remove about -2dB of gain from my distorted guitars and tighten them up. Now, in this scenario, it's about what you will NOT hear that makes this compressor setting a good one. Without it, you will hear certain notes on my guitar slightly jump out at you where I don't really want them to. Yes that's dynamics, but there are good dynamics and bad ones. With distorted guitars...especially high-gain, it's more about consistency not dynamics when the guitar is cracked wide open. So we want those lashing notes to be tighter...when we use this compressor setting, that's what we get. So to hear this compressor setting....you no longer hear the notes lashing. The track is consistent...it will not have large spikes in the wave form if you send it to a bus and turn on wave preview in Sonar....which I will get to because it is an EXCELLENT tool to use when teaching compression. 1:5 is a good setting for anything that needs a little extra love and care that was already processed with compression on the way in or anything in need of a slight peak control. Your threshold and knee will determine how the compressor reacts. The attack time tells it how early to kick, the release tells it when to release and kick again.

2:1: This is a lot like 1:5, (notice I didn't mention 1:1...I've never had a use for ratio's that low before) but the compressor will now get slightly more aggressive. This setting is always a good starting point for mastering for me and by luck of the draw, ends up just about always being my magic number. Although there are times when 1:5 won for a mastering situation. This setting is also great for acoustic guitars and piano's where the people playing know how to dynamically make love to the instruments. This is also a good 2-bus glue setting as well as drum bus compression to sort of glue the kit together as an entity. This makes the compressor work as glue and isn't too damaging.

3:1 & 4:1: These are really great for electric guitars, acoustic guitars, piano, upright bass, violins, sections on a bus....it all depends who and what you're dealing with. 4:1 being the most popular because it just seems to always work with distorted guitars or high gain guitars. These are really good for just about anything where you want to have the compressor controlling things a bit more. Above I mentioned to you that 1:5 was good for MY particular guitar tone. If I didn't use a hardware compressor going in and was using a plug on my guitars, 3:1 or 4:1 is where I would immediately turn. It just works well with guitars of this nature.

Now mind you, due to this ratio being increased, we'll need less threshold...maybe -6 threshold to remove -2dB of gain. -2dB of gain always seems to be my magic number for heavily distorted guitars. I don't even look at the gain reduction....I just mess with the threshold until I hear what I want (or what I don't want) and I always end up somewhere around -2dB. I'm actually glad about that too because one of my favorite guitar producers (whom I know personally) Beau Hill, told me that he too always seemed to end up near or around -2dB of gain reduction in his dirty guitar tones. I have had the occassional -3dB or more on some guitars...those low 7 strings are a bear to tame...and some of the guys are tuning down to low A!

5:1 to 9:1: These ratios are going to really make the compressor work hard. They work on bass guitar, anything that's super percussive, kick and snare drum crack along with attack and release of course....and in this range is where we will end up with our bass guitar friend that is all over the place. These settings can also be used on anything where the normal settings of 1:5 to 4:1 fail. Meaning, if you can't seem to get something under control with those other ratio's, increasing will help along with the other settings on the compressor. Anything over 9:1 to infinity is going to be used for effects purposes. Smashing room mics, certain parallel compression...trippy swelling effects via automation...or if you just want something to have 0 dynamics with no breathing room at all.

So now that you know my chart for this stuff..let's get back to our bass friend. We need to fix his consistency...so do to this, we need to find a good compression setting for him. So we test out a few things...and we find out for this particular guy, 9:1 seems to control him the best. Because of the bass line he played, it's one of those bass lines that needs to be clean and doesn't need much in the way of dynamics. He's pulling so hard at times, it's just a nightmare. So we're going to have to sqaush him good. We find that we can control this with a threshold setting of about -22. This is probably going to remove anywhere from -12 to -18dB of gain reduction. We will also have to determine how soon the compressor hits. We don't want it to totally clamp down on him, but we need to control his exectution attack. 2-5ms depending on the player should work pretty well here with the limiter on the Sonitus disabled because I just don't like it. Release times should be set to taste depending on just how long or how short we want this compressor to stay engaged or retrigger itself. For this particular guy (by the way, this is an actual mix I'm doing while I'm typing this to you. LOL) 2.5 attack, 500 release seems to work the best. He's choking off a bit now so the -22 I had on the threshold has now been decreased to -19. Perfect! Now for this dude...to get it how I want it because of the execution being so bad, I'm remove about -11 dB of gain. It seems extreme, but it sounds right for this particular song and the bass is no longer disappearing from the mix nor does it have that horrible transient attack that it had before the compressor.

Now, there is only so much I can do here. You can't use a compressor alone on something like this. I tried my best to control him, but now we have to automate because some of the notes are not quite where they should be. Sometimes you need to decrease the compressor and use more automation...sometimes you need more compression and *some* automation. But you will just about always have to automate on anything that is heavily compressed like this guy here.

Now let's look at another quick scenario. In the event this dude didn't have a nice bass....and it had bad action, some strings high, some strings lower and closer to the pups, plus his horrible execution like I mentioned....then we have to use something different. This is where a multi-band would be the better choice. The multiband is going to control those notes closer the the strings that give us more tone instead of more pull. We can comp the frequencies that are lashing out at us. For example, everytime someone hits a low B or a low A on a bass, 8 times out of 10 it's going to ring out more than the others. So we look at what that frequency value of that B is...and we see it's around 61 Hz. Set the multiband to 61 Hz, and bang...that low B is now controlled. OR...you draw in automation. I mentioned using the multi-band in this situation, but I'd also be using a regular compressor on the bass to control the entire thing as an entity. You could also use automation on the eq at 61 Hz every time that low B hits...so see? You have quite a few options on how to handle this stuff now.

But with compression, the key is to choose the right one. For me personally, I'd not use an 1176 on a bass. For some basses, maybe...but it depends on the player, the part played, the sound he has, the genre...this is why it's so important to have a few compressors. I prefer a DBX compressor on my basses because DBX knows how to compress bass...period. They've been doing it for years and just have a clue on how to tame that maniac known as "the bass guitar". Also, you HAVE to know what to listen for as I said before. The whole thing with compressors and how to use them, depends on what you were presented with. That dictates what your game-plan will be. And what's cool is, it's rare you'll use an exact setting twice...so don't ever rely on presets unless you use the same instruments.

For example, I can get away with using the presets I have created for my bass, drums, guitars, vocals and everything else that I use in MY studio. My house drum kit and my V Drums have settings that I use for certain situations. I can use these again and of course tweak them for the song. But as soon as someone else comes in with their drum kit, amps, bass, bass rig etc, all my settings are moot. New ones need to be created. The thing that makes this so hard is, you're never in the same boat twice unless you're in YOUR boat. LOL! But once you know how and what to listen for...and have the sound in your head that you want to hear, the compression thing is quite easy.

I can go on and on about this...but this post is probably the longest in history as is. But compressing kicks and snares to literally make them pop is another important factor. I've basically shared good compression techniques with you here...but when we create kicks and snares with identity using compressors, that's BAD compression techniques...meaning, "badass" to where we are now using the compressor to create a specific sound as opposed to just smoothing or leveling an instrument. I'll cover that some other time though so I don't get banned for writing novels. :) You should visit my forum some day if you ever want to read some of my twisted comments. Some good stuff over there that you might enjoy. Anyway....hope some of this was helpful or at least planted a few seeds for you and anyone else that's read this far. :) Sheesh...this is so long I'm not even gonna attempt to check my spelling....you know I can spell...hahaha!

-Danny

You're quite welcome, Mike. :) I figured you might be interested in seeing some of that stuff...and I knew Jeff wouldn't mind me using his thread. He'll probably chime in and add his experiences to this knowing him. :)

As for the eq and compression thing, you're right..it is like another instrument. But the key thing to remember is to have the right listening environment or you can totally waste years of your life. A prime example of this (not a wasted life mind you lol) but Bapu was to me, and engineer that always had decent sounds but was somewhat missing certain things. It had nothing to do with his engineering skills or his gear as Ed has some really insane toys. However, no matter how good your gear, the wrong monitor representation will kill you every time and this was one of Ed's issues. I got him to try ARC, fed his head a little bit about frequencies, compressor settings and problem areas, and the next thing you know, within a week, the dude sends me this mix that has all the right stuff.

It's amazing what you can hear when you hear it right...esepcially with eq's..which is the other animal that plagues us...especially bass frequencies. I find that most near-fields just fall short in bass represenation no matter which ones you buy. I didn't start getting the low end stuff down until I got a sub...then of course ARC fixed everything up for me. I know...more stuff to buy, just what we need when we don't have the money, right? Well, let me tell you...pro, hobbiest, semi-pro, bedroom guru...whatever you consider yourself, you can't put a price on removing those black clouds that frustrate you or stop you from enjoying this field. If ARC would have cost me $1000 or even $5000...and I knew it would have worked as well as it has for me...you better believe as much as I think that's a super steep price to pay, it's one I'd have no problems parting with for me to enjoy what I do. Let me tell you...I was in such bad shape, I hated recording. I knew that my place would only be pre-pro only and thought I was the reason. How could I know all the stuff I think I know and fall short every time?

I WAS the reason...being stubborn and cheap. If you don't have the money...that's one thing...you have to save for certain things that make a difference...there's no way around them. But if you DO have the money and you're so tight you squeak like me because you just don't believe some of the things you read/hear about and are afraid to waste your money, that's when you actually do yourself an injustice. I had credible engineers and producers at my studio telling me "wow, you got everything in here...except good monitors and room tuning." I'd always answer with "bah, I got NS-10's....the monitors the entire world uses....new monitors and room tuning ain't gonna help...it's me, I'm just a crap engineer!" The funny thing there...anytime I was in a studio with room tuning and good monitors, all the stuff I couldn't hear as problematic in my mixes, came right out to me in an instant. This told me right there "hmm, maybe you're not such a bad engineer...maybe you do need some monitors and some sort of room eq and tuning?"

I of course decided on some pricey monitors...Genelecs and then Adam A 7's with the Sub 8. Guess what...yep...I still couldn't mix much better! Things improved but I was still missing things that I justc ouldn't hear. I was ready to hire someone to come in and do all that room stuff..bass traps etc, room eq...and then I heard about ARC, tried it, and I've been loving everything I do ever since with things translating perfectly everywhere. So the compression thing...we can teach you. Eq, if you're not in the right environment, you'll never hear the right stuff to even be able to have someone teach you what to listen for and how to deal with frequencies. That's definitely the first thing to save up for so it helps you get that annoying beast out of the way. The day the clouds clear for you is the day you sit back ane really enjoy this little hobby we have. Yeah it can get a bit expensive at times...but at least you're not out drinking and getting into trouble....if we went back in time and looked at how much we spent on "party favors" I'd be willing to bet most of us could own a loaded up 500k studio. :) Hang in there brother. Glad some of this stuff has been helpful.

-Danny