Helpful ReplyHot!How Often Do You Buy a New DAW?

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razor
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2018/11/16 18:16:25 (permalink)

How Often Do You Buy a New DAW?

Hey Group--
 
I'm doing a low-key search into a new PC DAW and just wondered, on average, how often do you buy a new rig?
 
I'm pretty handy with PC's so I always tend to maintain and upgrade them and make them last way longer than I think they were designed to last. As a pro, I save money. As a con, I get left behind with new, faster technology that would make my music production flow faster and give me more options to have plug-ins/samples running in real time, etc.
 
Just wondering.

Stephen Davis
 
Cakewalk by Bandlab
Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit
ADK DAW - (out of business 2018)
Intel i7 4930K CPU
Core i7 SB-E MOBO
16 GB DDR3 RAM
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Layla 3G SoundCard (11.5 ms Roundtrip Latency)
UAD-2 DSP
WaveLab 8 Pro 64-bit 
Sound Forge 10 Pro
#1
slartabartfast
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/16 19:28:41 (permalink)
The last time I bought a new DAW was after Gibson abandoned Sonar, and before BandLab rescued it. I find it hard to believe I will buy another one until I can no longer run what I have. DAW's are pretty much at the stage of word processors. There has not been a truly useful word processing feature added to MS Word since 2000.
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fireberd
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/16 20:21:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby razor 2018/11/19 18:07:03
I have a two year old system.  I usually keep them about 5 years then replace.  However, I'm going to build a new one, probably after the 1st of the year.  But, its because the system I have I'll be giving to my daughter for her home business.  The system she has is an old system that was originally a Vista system and on its "last leg".
 
 

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#3
DeeringAmps
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/16 21:51:38 (permalink)
StudioCat #1 2010; still running strong, is now my office rig.
StudioCat #2 2018; is my studio rig, I can't say enough good things about it!
 
Talk to Jim at studiocat you will not regret it!
 
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Tom Deering
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#4
razor
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/16 22:31:36 (permalink)
Sounds like I'm pretty similar. About 5 years or maybe a couple more. I do the trickle down with my old rigs too. The bottom goes in the trash, my old studio rig goes in the family room, and the top is replaced in my studio with a new rig. 
 
For me, part of the new rig experience is that is keeps things fresh and fun. Who doesn't like a brand new, screaming fast computer, right! ;-) I'm a tech geek and I can only go without the latest greatest so long! The last time I upgraded my rig is because the old one maxed out at 8 GB RAM and my newly purchased sampler program was choking.
 
Studio Cat is great, but after ADK went under this year, I'm very leery of small "ma and pa" shops for anything that might need future service. Here's where I'm leaning now --> pcaudiolabs
 
Thanks all!

Stephen Davis
 
Cakewalk by Bandlab
Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit
ADK DAW - (out of business 2018)
Intel i7 4930K CPU
Core i7 SB-E MOBO
16 GB DDR3 RAM
7 TB Storage
Layla 3G SoundCard (11.5 ms Roundtrip Latency)
UAD-2 DSP
WaveLab 8 Pro 64-bit 
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#5
mettelus
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/16 22:57:00 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby razor 2018/11/19 18:08:53
5 years is pretty standard, but there has been a shift in that the older system can be kept in service a lot longer (in the old days it was truly obsolete, but these days is just "slower"). If Win 10 stays its current course, that will remain true (and fewer programs will obsolesce themselves because there won't be a newer OS to take them out).
 
I have always associated "StudioCat" with Jim, and he has never struck me as the type of person that would drop off the radar even if he stopped building machines. Even companies vaporize, and then you are truly screwed, since you don't have a specific person to call, and even if you do get someone, they might not have a clue what you are asking them. Jim doesn't fall into that catagory either.

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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msmcleod
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/16 23:02:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby razor 2018/11/19 18:10:11
Software-wise, I've been with Cakewalk since the mid 90's upgrading at least every 2 versions, but I've upgraded every version since Sonar 8.
 
But for PC hardware, I've tended to hang on to my system as long as is possible - up to 10 years if I can - although I might upgrade my processor after 5 years or so (from middle of the range to top of the range) once the prices plummet.
 
I'm currently maxed out processor-wise on my current motherboard, but it's not struggling in any way.
 
The last time I upgraded my PC was when X2 stopped supporting Windows XP, but even then I was still running 32 bit on Windows 7.
 
It was only when I wanted to use some 64 bit only plugins that I moved to Windows 10, and then as a result had to retire my 2 x Yamaha DS2416 PCI cards which I'd used in all my PC's since 1997.
 
In fact, it wasn't until I moved to Windows 10 that I started using VST's & VSTi's in anger. My 2 x DS2416's had EQ & dynamics on every channel, and 4 x effects; and all my synths were hardware.
 
Prior to X2 I was using an Athlon 4000 (2Ghz dual core) with 4GB memory running XP 32 bit. I used that since around Sonar 5.
 
Before that it was a Athlon 800Mhz machine (later upgraded the processor to 1.2GHz) with 750MB RAM. I'd had that since Sonar XL.
 
I think CWPA 7 through CWPA 9 I had running on an old Cirrus P166 (64 MB RAM), but still with the Yamaha DS2416.
 
And before that... 10 years of using an Amiga 500 with Music-X, using a Yamaha MT1X 4 track and later a MT8X 8 track.
 

Mark McLeod
Cakewalk by BL | ASUS P8B75-V, Intel I5 3570 16GB RAM Win 10 64 + Win 7 64/32 SSD HD's, Scarlett 18i20 / 6i6 | ASUS ROG GL552VW 16GB RAM Win 10 64 SSD HD's, Scarlett 2i2 | Behringer Truth B2030A / Edirol MA-5A | Mackie MCU + C4 + XT | 2 x BCF2000, Korg NanoKontrol Studio
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Leadfoot
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/17 00:35:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby razor 2018/11/19 18:10:28
I've got a DAW that's about 10 years old. It's got an Intel Q9550 Core 2 Quad(2.83Ghz), 4Gb RAM, a 480Gb SSD system drive, and 2 WD Blue 1Tb drives, one for audio and one for whatever. I've upgraded hard drives over the years, but that's it. I'm running Windows 7 Pro with Splat, Mixbus 32C v5, and Samplitude X3 Suite. Unless I find some money somewhere, I'll be running this rig until it dies. It's been real solid for me these last ten years.
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abacab
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/17 03:04:17 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby razor 2018/11/19 18:10:56
mettelus
5 years is pretty standard, but there has been a shift in that the older system can be kept in service a lot longer (in the old days it was truly obsolete, but these days is just "slower"). If Win 10 stays its current course, that will remain true (and fewer programs will obsolesce themselves because there won't be a newer OS to take them out).




I agree with that.  I'm at about the 4+ year point now, and some of the software I have gotten in the last year has me thinking it would be nice to move from a dual core to a 4 or 6 core setup.
 
What I have now has served me well since jumping into the 64-bit arena with Win 10 from a 32-bit Win 7 rig.  I wouldn't say what I have is obsolete, but certain operations with virtual instruments can challenge my CPU  at times.

DAW: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Sonar Platinum, and others ...  Other: AIR AIEP; Akai VIP; BIAB; Fathom; Ignite; iZotope Iris 2; Miroslav; Notion; Overture; SampleTank 3; SynthMaster; Syntronik; Waves  OS: Win10 Pro x64 1709  System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Fender P-Bass

#9
fireberd
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/17 11:33:17 (permalink)
As new "versions" of Win 10 are introduced (e.g. V1803, etc) some older hardware is no longer supported.  Depending on the PC hardware, the newer versions will not even be offered.  Thus even though its still "Windows 10" the hardware issue remains.
 
 

"GCSG Productions"
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Kev999
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/17 23:46:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby razor 2018/11/19 18:11:45
I started in 2007 and I'm now on my third DAW PC. The second one, based on an i7-950, lasted nearly 7 years and replacing it was never a priority as it always coped easily with large projects. The only real reason for replacing it was when the old family computer started to die last year. I began building a new DAW PC so that the existing one could be put to general use in the lounge room. As it turned out this was timely, as suddenly out of the blue I was asked to edit some complex video. The old DAW PC would not cope with it, so I had to quickly finish building the new one before dealing with the video.

SonarPlatinum(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)
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Having fun at work lately
#11
Kev999
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/17 23:50:26 (permalink)
slartabartfast
...There has not been a truly useful word processing feature added to MS Word since 2000.

 
I agree. I still use Office 2000. It requires some fixes to run properly on recent operating systems, plus an add-on to read DOCX files etc., but otherwise it's still ok.

SonarPlatinum(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)
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Having fun at work lately
#12
xiwix
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/18 00:04:40 (permalink)
I'm still on a Sandy Bridge i7 with even older MOTU + M-audio hardware and very happy with how everything has aged although it is showing signs of wear.  I really like the new intel i7 9700k and if prices drop next year I'm looking to build something fresh.
#13
kitekrazy1
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/19 16:37:11 (permalink)
Leadfoot
I've got a DAW that's about 10 years old. It's got an Intel Q9550 Core 2 Quad(2.83Ghz), 4Gb RAM, a 480Gb SSD system drive, and 2 WD Blue 1Tb drives, one for audio and one for whatever. I've upgraded hard drives over the years, but that's it. I'm running Windows 7 Pro with Splat, Mixbus 32C v5, and Samplitude X3 Suite. Unless I find some money somewhere, I'll be running this rig until it dies. It's been real solid for me these last ten years.



 I have a system running a Phenom II 945 on W7.  It's still a decent processor

Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4,  NVidia 750ti, AP2496
 
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kitekrazy1
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/19 16:42:18 (permalink)
There's a lot of DAW users who still upgrade those Mac 6 boxes that had them from 2010.

Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4,  NVidia 750ti, AP2496
 
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/19 18:49:27 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby razor 2018/11/21 17:34:46
razor
Studio Cat is great, but after ADK went under this year, I'm very leery of small "ma and pa" shops for anything that might need future service. Here's where I'm leaning now --> pcaudiolabs
 



I can't speak for numerous others, but this "Ma and Pa" shop was open quite a bit before ADK started... and we're still here. 
We've seen a lot of good competition go over the years (Lee's Computers, Mission Recording, Sound Chaser, ADK, etc).  
 
We've been here for right about 25 years.
That's longer than PC Audio Labs.  
 
Use whoever you're comfortable with...
As far as overall knowledge/experience as computer technician, DAW user, and active musician... few (if any) on the planet have a more broad/encompassing background than mine.
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#16
batsbrew
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/20 20:12:31 (permalink)
no less than 10 years for me.

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#17
Starise
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/20 20:24:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby razor 2018/11/21 17:35:13
I roll my own.I usually upgrade every 5 years. I actually forget when I last built one. I think I'm maybe three years out or thereabouts. Solid machine.Not a commercial studio. I don't track loads of tracks. 5820K over clocked to 4.4ghz. 6 cores. Never stalled on me. Never had any issues. 

Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, ,
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Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface.
 CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 
 
 www.soundcloud.com/starise
 
 
 
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#18
BenMMusTech
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/20 23:41:16 (permalink)
In this day and age, and depending on what you do besides audio...a good gaming laptop, somewhere in the range of 2500 to 3000 dollars Oz should last between 3-5 years - depending on factors like cleaning the fan and SSD drives versus spindle drives.

Honestly, no one needs to faff about with building a DAW computer anymore...I stopped doing so 8 years ago, and I haven't built a DAW computer for 10 years. My Acer Nitro has 32 gig of ram, thunderbolt, SSD drive for programs, spindle drive for storage and a 4k monitor. I have a portable SSD drive hooked up to the thunderbolt port and I can run over 100 tracks with 20 busses at 64bitfp audio and 48khz, and only then was I pushing it to the limit. I froze all the audio tracks but on each of the 20 buss/aux tracks I had a slew of Wave's plugs, and binaural type effects too.

In the year since I brought this laptop, the CPU specs have gone through the roof and I believe we should be able to run a live rig natively - as long as you have a thunderbolt audio interface and you stick to 24bit audio recordings. I have yet to test this, but I do believe from all the data I've got that it should be possible.

One of the reasons why, I'm advocating getting rid of building computers and buying a good gaming laptop is - there's less faffing about and more music making. The issues that plagued PC laptops for creativity are gone - so long as you don't go under 2000 dollars Oz and their designed for games. And with thunderbolt or USBc you have can upgrade the laptop with new types of ports and even add on a desktop gpu - how neat is that?

For me to fully answer the OPs question, because I do 3d animation, film editing and vfxs I try and upgrade my laptop every 2 years. I suspect that my next upgrade might last a bit longer because the next gen gaming laptops with be at least as half more powerful than the one I've got currently due to hexa core cpus and 8gig GPUs

Ben

Benjamin Phillips-Bachelor of Creative Technology (Sound and Audio Production), (Hons) Sonic Arts, MMusTech (Master of Music Technology), M.Phil (Fine Art)
http://1331.space/
https://thedigitalartist.bandcamp.com/
http://soundcloud.com/aaudiomystiks
#19
abacab
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/21 00:12:07 (permalink)
BenMMusTech

One of the reasons why, I'm advocating getting rid of building computers and buying a good gaming laptop is - there's less faffing about and more music making. The issues that plagued PC laptops for creativity are gone - so long as you don't go under 2000 dollars Oz and their designed for games. And with thunderbolt or USBc you have can upgrade the laptop with new types of ports and even add on a desktop gpu - how neat is that?

For me to fully answer the OPs question, because I do 3d animation, film editing and vfxs I try and upgrade my laptop every 2 years. I suspect that my next upgrade might last a bit longer because the next gen gaming laptops with be at least as half more powerful than the one I've got currently due to hexa core cpus and 8gig GPUs

Ben



I think that is great that you can afford to do that, but really doubt that applies to the majority of users around here.
 
I view laptops with the opinion that if it breaks you cannot fix it yourself easily.  To me they are only disposable toys, and I am reluctant to spend more than $300-400 USD on one.  So laptops are a low priority for me, but they are useful for use as a mobile office, or musical scratchpad when on the road.  Even a cheap one can do decent remote location recording with a proper interface.
 
I would stick with a desktop for home studio use, unless I absolutely needed a laptop for live performance, and had the income from that to afford to do so.

DAW: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Sonar Platinum, and others ...  Other: AIR AIEP; Akai VIP; BIAB; Fathom; Ignite; iZotope Iris 2; Miroslav; Notion; Overture; SampleTank 3; SynthMaster; Syntronik; Waves  OS: Win10 Pro x64 1709  System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Fender P-Bass

#20
BenMMusTech
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/21 04:20:49 (permalink)
abacab
BenMMusTech

One of the reasons why, I'm advocating getting rid of building computers and buying a good gaming laptop is - there's less faffing about and more music making. The issues that plagued PC laptops for creativity are gone - so long as you don't go under 2000 dollars Oz and their designed for games. And with thunderbolt or USBc you have can upgrade the laptop with new types of ports and even add on a desktop gpu - how neat is that?

For me to fully answer the OPs question, because I do 3d animation, film editing and vfxs I try and upgrade my laptop every 2 years. I suspect that my next upgrade might last a bit longer because the next gen gaming laptops with be at least as half more powerful than the one I've got currently due to hexa core cpus and 8gig GPUs

Ben



I think that is great that you can afford to do that, but really doubt that applies to the majority of users around here.
 
I view laptops with the opinion that if it breaks you cannot fix it yourself easily.  To me they are only disposable toys, and I am reluctant to spend more than $300-400 USD on one.  So laptops are a low priority for me, but they are useful for use as a mobile office, or musical scratchpad when on the road.  Even a cheap one can do decent remote location recording with a proper interface.
 
I would stick with a desktop for home studio use, unless I absolutely needed a laptop for live performance, and had the income from that to afford to do so.


Ok, I understand your point of view - but two things...first I'm so poor I'm struggling to pay rent and food. I've sacrificed everything to be the best I can be. Which if you view my latest work is far higher than even the so-called 'pros' - I make no money from work, because I don't care about social norms. This doesn't make me a bad person of course, but it does make seem like one to those unaccustomed to people like who just fire straight. The above statement for instance will probably piss you and others on this forum off for example...but to me I'm just stating a truth and haven't been infected by 'when they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years' because I'm an ultimate outsider.

The other issue with what you've said is 'what if it needs repairing?' Well what would need repairing? A broken USB port maybe? I stated that you can use the USBc or thunderbolt port to basically replace any broken port and or indeed GPU...and spindle drives are obsolete apart from storage, so a production 500 gig SSD drive can also run off the USBc port and with a 40gbps throughout and access to the PCI buss like a device connected to the motherboard...you can drive a few things off that one port without comprising said throughput. Then there's the warranty of a laptop - if you pay a few bucks more - you get a 3 year one that can cover accidental damage. You won't get that with a home built computer!

Look I'm not knocking your opinion - we're all entitled to one! The issue is the technological eco-system has matured...and this is a fact that is still not very well understood. And this is why I've made the statement I've made and indeed why I've rebutted your opinion.

If I told you, you could make an 8 minute Star Wars short...I could make you a full length Star Wars if I had two render machines, but if I told you, you could make a short Star Wars type moving image work with only a laptop, a 4k dslr and a few other bibs and bobs - you and most others wouldn't believe me! But it's the truth! We are truly in an age of wonder when it comes to technology, the issue is we're surround by people who keep telling others that this is not possible.

Ben

Benjamin Phillips-Bachelor of Creative Technology (Sound and Audio Production), (Hons) Sonic Arts, MMusTech (Master of Music Technology), M.Phil (Fine Art)
http://1331.space/
https://thedigitalartist.bandcamp.com/
http://soundcloud.com/aaudiomystiks
#21
pwalpwal
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/21 13:55:19 (permalink)
problem with laptops is it's all integrated, so say your video dies you can't just swap out the video card... or upgrade individual components, other than ram or hd... having said that, i have to use a laptop due to lack of space for a proper pc
 
but it's not a toy!

just a sec

#22
pwalpwal
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/21 13:56:28 (permalink)
and the lid/screen hinge is usually the first thing to go

just a sec

#23
Jim Roseberry
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/21 15:09:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2018/11/21 16:14:47
If you're after ultimate high-performance, a laptop (especially not off-the-shelf) is never going to be the equal of a desktop (where you have complete control over exactly what goes in).
 
First, most laptops are using "mobile" CPUs.
By very definition, that means performance throttling (necessary due to the tight space - to keep heat under control).
 
The best custom laptops run desktop CPUs.
They're large and expensive.
That's the closest you'll come to a desktop (performance wise) in a laptop form-factor.
 
Even with the best custom laptops, you can't do things like run the latest i9-9900k with all 8 cores (16 processing threads) locked at 5GHz.  Just too much heat for a small chassis...
With a tower and proper cooling, it's no problem at all...
 
If you just bought a new Presonus Quantum (wanting to effectively work at 1ms total round-trip latency at 96k/32-sample ASIO buffer size), no off-the-shelf laptop is going to keep up with the load.
With a fast well-configured desktop, this isn't a problem.
 
 
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#24
razor
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/21 17:39:17 (permalink)
I had a custom gaming rig built and converted it to a DAW when I decided not to game anymore. The thing with most gaming rigs is the money spent associated with the high end GPU. I do zero video editing, and I don't need a high-end GPU. I'd rather spend that money on a faster CPU or more RAM, etc.

Stephen Davis
 
Cakewalk by Bandlab
Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit
ADK DAW - (out of business 2018)
Intel i7 4930K CPU
Core i7 SB-E MOBO
16 GB DDR3 RAM
7 TB Storage
Layla 3G SoundCard (11.5 ms Roundtrip Latency)
UAD-2 DSP
WaveLab 8 Pro 64-bit 
Sound Forge 10 Pro
#25
stratman70
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/21 17:41:24 (permalink)
I am about the same as Fireberd--every 4 or 5 years............I build a new system from scratch.
Just built a new 8th gen i7 intel 8700 win 10 pro machine in september of this year.
NVME m.2 for sample drive so I am set for quite  while, for my needs.

 
 
#26
BenMMusTech
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/21 23:13:41 (permalink)
Obviously no one read the memo properly - this is that with thunderbolt 3 or USBc you can hook up a GPU and you can render video off that! And no one obviously read how many tracks and at what bit depth and khz I recorded at.

With all respect to Jim Roseberry - who I believe is in the business of building desktops for audio...I've been in this game for almost 20 years, I have 3 degrees in audio and music production and I also have an M.Phil - so a research degree. I'm not trying to sell anyone anything, I'm trying to help culture get over the hump...western culture is stuck in the post postpost blues...and without abandoning knowledge on The Digital from 20 years ago, culture will stay stuck in the post postpost blues.

I know everyone here hates theoreticians like me, but I test my theories out. I'm telling you - the present and the future is mobile. If you go to my latest work, you will see why I believe this. If I can achieve what I've achieved and with only a gaming laptop...it seems obvious. What I'm working on now is even better. And I'm speeding up the processes again.

Ben

Benjamin Phillips-Bachelor of Creative Technology (Sound and Audio Production), (Hons) Sonic Arts, MMusTech (Master of Music Technology), M.Phil (Fine Art)
http://1331.space/
https://thedigitalartist.bandcamp.com/
http://soundcloud.com/aaudiomystiks
#27
msmcleod
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/22 00:20:16 (permalink)
BenMMusTech
Obviously no one read the memo properly - this is that with thunderbolt 3 or USBc you can hook up a GPU and you can render video off that! And no one obviously read how many tracks and at what bit depth and khz I recorded at.

With all respect to Jim Roseberry - who I believe is in the business of building desktops for audio...I've been in this game for almost 20 years, I have 3 degrees in audio and music production and I also have an M.Phil - so a research degree. I'm not trying to sell anyone anything, I'm trying to help culture get over the hump...western culture is stuck in the post postpost blues...and without abandoning knowledge on The Digital from 20 years ago, culture will stay stuck in the post postpost blues.

I know everyone here hates theoreticians like me, but I test my theories out. I'm telling you - the present and the future is mobile. If you go to my latest work, you will see why I believe this. If I can achieve what I've achieved and with only a gaming laptop...it seems obvious. What I'm working on now is even better. And I'm speeding up the processes again.

Ben



I've got both a desktop setup (actually 2 identical ones - one in the house, one in the studio), and a gaming laptop.
 
What you say about laptops is true, however...
 
I had to search far & wide to get a laptop that would allow me to upgrade the memory, hdd - even the battery in most modern laptops isn't replaceable. The ASUS laptop I got was the previous generation, which was marketed on its expansion options... the one that replaced it was practically a sealed unit. 
 
I got a great deal at £850 for my laptop, but even before upgrading from 8GB to 16GB RAM and upgrading the internal SSD from 256GB to 1TB, it STILL COST TWICE AS MUCH as my desktop equivalent.
 
My desktop has 12 USB ports, 6 SATA slots, 3 "old" PCI slots + 2 PCIe slots... compared to my laptop's 3 USB slots + 1 USB C. You don't even get PCMCIA slots on laptops nowadays.
 
The biggest thing for me is that with a desktop system, you can upgrade bit by bit, as and when your budget dictates.
 
With a modern laptop, you pretty much have to decide on a maxed out system right away.
 
I wanted a mobile setup, so I was prepared to pay for it... but unless you need a mobile setup, a desktop/tower system in my opinion wins hands down.
 

Mark McLeod
Cakewalk by BL | ASUS P8B75-V, Intel I5 3570 16GB RAM Win 10 64 + Win 7 64/32 SSD HD's, Scarlett 18i20 / 6i6 | ASUS ROG GL552VW 16GB RAM Win 10 64 SSD HD's, Scarlett 2i2 | Behringer Truth B2030A / Edirol MA-5A | Mackie MCU + C4 + XT | 2 x BCF2000, Korg NanoKontrol Studio
#28
Jim Roseberry
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/22 15:06:15 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2018/11/22 17:21:11
BenMMusTech
With all respect to Jim Roseberry - who I believe is in the business of building desktops for audio...I've been in this game for almost 20 years, I have 3 degrees in audio and music production and I also have an M.Phil - so a research degree. I'm not trying to sell anyone anything, I'm trying to help culture get over the hump...western culture is stuck in the post postpost blues...and without abandoning knowledge on The Digital from 20 years ago, culture will stay stuck in the post postpost blues.



I've been in this "game" for 30 years.  
As an individual, few (if any) have more experience building/configuring/using Digital Audio Workstations.
We sell both custom laptops and desktops.  That has nothing to do with my comments.
Numerous of our clients are college music professors. 
I could lecture at Ohio State University if I chose to do so.
Many of our clients have won Emmy's, Grammy's, and performed in front of hundreds of thousands.
 
The reality is that, due to the laws of physics (thermodynamics), a laptop is not the equal of a fast desktop.
Mobile CPUs were created specifically to keep heat in-check in tight enclosures.
There's no arguing that Performance Throttling is a positive thing in a high-performance application (Digital Audio Workstation, Video NLE, etc).
Case-in-point, the new i9-9900k was just released.
It'll happily run all 8 cores (16 processing threads) locked at 5GHz... and do so running near dead-silent.
Prerequisites:
  • proper cooling (won't fit within the confines of a laptop shell)
  • access to all necessary BIOS parameters
You absolutely can not do this with ANY current laptop (including the best custom built models using Clevo shells).
There's simply too much heat for the small space.
 
Most off-the-shelf machines do not expose all BIOS parameters necessary to fully optimize a machine for maximum DAW performance.  This is done to prevent less tech-savvy users from fouling up their machine.
This isn't my opinion, it's the reality of what Dell, HP, etc release... and the reality of those companies trying to keep their tech-support load under control.  The machines are "dumbed-down".  Apple has been moving this direction the past decade (no user-serviceable upgrades/expansion).
 
The general-purpose user (Facebook, Office apps, Email, Photos - to which most laptops are marketed) is much more concerned with long battery-life than absolute maximum performance. 
Extended battery-life means performance throttling/compromise.
 
If you need the ability to go mobile, the performance compromise may well be worth it to you/your scenario.
But... a machine that uses a Mobil CPU, C-States, Enhanced Intel Speed Step, etc... is a performance compromise.
 
For those wanting to push the limits at the smallest ASIO buffer sizes, performance/speed are important.
ie: With an audio interface like the Presonus Quantum, you can now do things like run Helix Native (software plugin version of Helix guitar processor) at 96k with 1ms total round-trip latency.  
Using a 32-sample ASIO buffer size at 96k, the machine has ~0.3ms to process/fill the next ASIO buffer... or you'll hear a drop-out/glitch.  This type of thing isn't possible with an off-the-shelf laptop; that's not what they were designed to do.  With a custom desktop, you have complete control over the parts/configuration... which allows pushing performance boundaries much further. 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#29
Johnbee58
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Re: How Often Do You Buy a New DAW? 2018/11/22 21:20:22 (permalink)
If the day ever comes when I have to record on something as small as a smart phone that will be the end of my recording days.  I refuse to work on something that small.
 
JB

Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers.  Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7,
NI Session Strings Pro, NI Strummed Acoustic Guitar, Miroslav Philharmonic, Auturia DX7 V, Garritan JABB 3, EZ Keys, EZ Drummer.
 
 "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening."   Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
#30
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