Bill Hester
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How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
Hi all
This may be an incredibly dumb question! However I've searched through the help files and I simply cannot figure out how to remove the two or three bars of empty space at the start of my project (short of moving every single audio and midi file, which knowing Sonar's advanced functionality just can't be the easiest way!!) . I don't obviously want 6 seconds of silence when I render to audio, but that's exactly what I'm getting right now
I'm using Sonar 7 - very grateful for any insights
Many thanks, Bill Hester
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nprime
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 15:36:00
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"Select All" and click and drag should do it. although if you have envelopes it will mess all that up big time. Is there a better way? Don't know, never looked for it.
post edited by nprime - 2008/01/14 15:50:25
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Phrauge
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 15:37:47
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Bounce will only use what's selected. Don't select the first 6 seconds of silence when you bounce. HTH.
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aaronk
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 15:45:13
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Phrauge's idea is a good one.
Another alternative is to use Process>Audio>Remove Silence on your bounced Master.
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Bill Hester
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 15:53:08
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I can only say "wow" for two reasons - firstly for the unbelievably quick replies (investing in Sonar was worth the price of entry for this forum alone!)
Secondly wow is that maybe this wasn't such a dumb question after all! I do use envelopes a lot so selecting all and dragging isn't going to work for me. When I have exported audio to create the final wav file, I have tried setting the 'now' time to the opening bar, however it always renders the whole thing from the very start..... Not clear how the above advice differs from what I've done in the past?
Anyone else experiencing this problem? I'm guessing that no-one starts playing on bar one measure one, however everyone wants their CD to start playing immediately, so I'm thinking this is a common issue?
Thanks again, Bill
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AndyW
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 15:53:55
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I believe there is an option in the Edit menu to "Delete" and measures is one of the options.I am not at my DAW right now to check.
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Phrauge
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 16:01:58
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ORIGINAL: Bill Hester
When I have exported audio to create the final wav file, I have tried setting the 'now' time to the opening bar, however it always renders the whole thing from the very start. The "now" time has nothing to do with bouncing. Once again, bounce only use what's selected. If you select the whole thing, the whole thing will be bounced. Check the Timeline before you bounce to see wht's selected. HTH.
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Bill Hester
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 16:17:54
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Thanks - I assume this also refers to file\export audio (I'm assuming you're using the term 'bouncing' generically)
AndyW's suggestion also sounds like the simple solution I'm after - will go and check this out
Thanks again guys
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aaronk
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 16:20:47
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You can also delete the silence using any .wav editor. Audacity is free and easy to use.
I sometimes find SONAR's bounce and export functions don't quite give me what I'd expected. Personally, I just bounce the whole mix, then delete any opening silence I don't want as a step during pre-mastering, which I typically do in Sound Forge.
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AndyW
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 16:25:50
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ORIGINAL: aaronk
You can also delete the silence using any .wav editor. Audacity is free and easy to use.
I sometimes find SONAR's bounce and export functions don't quite give me what I'd expected. Personally, I just bounce the whole mix, then delete any opening silence I don't want as a step during pre-mastering, which I typically do in Sound Forge.
I do this as well FWIW. Sometimes having the first audio or midi event at time "0" can cause a glitch at mixdown. Best to have some "preroll"(for those who remember tape decks!) even with digital IMO. 
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robby 
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 16:52:27
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Are you trying to finish it? To distribute? Then use a tool like SoundForge or something like that. i.e., export your mains, open the WAV in SF, then you can get it "exactly" the way you want.
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...wicked
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 16:56:23
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I'm surprised no one thought of this:
Select All, EDIT | DELETE, select EVERYTHING, especially "DELETE HOLE" and all the checkboxes so it slides everything over.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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j boy
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 17:04:10
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Lanceindastudio
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 17:33:15
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-Control A to highlight all clips -Process->Slide* -Click box to move markers as well and set the amount to move it(- X measures, beats, or whatever unit of time you need to move it) -Press ok This should move everything together I believe
post edited by Lanceindastudio - 2008/01/14 17:50:26
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the_gavster
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 17:35:06
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i cant find it - but i wish i could ive asked many a time how to delete measures - i add them quite ahppily but if a riff isnt working out i scrap it - it w0ould be nice to just delete 6 measures instead of dragging everything
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musicroom
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 17:51:34
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ORIGINAL: ...wicked
I'm surprised no one thought of this:
Select All, EDIT | DELETE, select EVERYTHING, especially "DELETE HOLE" and all the checkboxes so it slides everything over.
-or- One can also select the measures they want to delete and then perform the EDIT | DELETE, select EVERYTHING (or just select EVENTS), especially "DELETE HOLE" so it slides everything over. It works just like the OP requested.
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Bill Hester
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 18:01:47
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Thanks for some very helpful replies - delete hole sounds like the ticket....BUT ($6m question) does it preserve everything, e.g does it move all the envelopes, automation etc?
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Dizzi45Z
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 18:06:02
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Careful with Process-Delete Hole if you have Bus Envelopes!!! I think everything will shift except for the envelopes in the Busses. This is something that I would love to see Sonar fix sometime in a future update.
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Bill Hester
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 18:08:37
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Didn't even know you could create bus envolopes, so I should be okay on that front!!
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nprime
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 18:18:10
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All I can say is try whatever you try on a copy, not the original.
It's frustrating to lose a bunch of work.
Listen Sonar 5PE Intel DP35DP, E6750, 3 GB, 80GB/320 GB Scope (6 DSP) w/A16 interface PadKontrol, Legacy Series MS20, EZDrummer.
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...wicked
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 18:54:31
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ORIGINAL: Dizzi45Z
Careful with Process-Delete Hole if you have Bus Envelopes!!! I think everything will shift except for the envelopes in the Busses. This is something that I would love to see Sonar fix sometime in a future update.
Wow, I didn't even know this. That's no good!
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F@KKER
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 20:37:32
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ORIGINAL: Lanceindastudio
-Control A to highlight all clips
-Process->Slide*
-Click box to move markers as well and set the amount to move it(- X measures, beats, or whatever unit of time you need to move it)
-Press ok
This should move everything together I believe
EXACTLY, THE BEST WAY ! F@KKER /I KNOW CAPS ARE ON ;)
Someone said: I've had more time to play with this, and am withdrawing the bug remarks.
This appears to work as designed and is actually a pretty cool feature.
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bitflipper
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/14 22:52:50
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Here's a novel alternative: fill those empty measures with some kind of musical prelude. Don't laugh. It's usually only 1 or 2 measures and you can get very creative with such a short filler that doesn't even have to musically relate to the rest of the song.
I'm working on a song that ends on a low, raspy organ note that fades out. I had a hole at the beginning of the song after I deleted the count-in, so I put the same low organ note at the beginning, fading it in. It was a cool effect and a novel way to deal with silence: fill it up!
(The tune's up on my Soundclick page - first on the list - still in the early stages, I threw it up there just to see how it sounds at 128Kbps)
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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AndyW
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/15 00:27:22
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ORIGINAL: bitflipper
Here's a novel alternative: fill those empty measures with some kind of musical prelude. Don't laugh. It's usually only 1 or 2 measures and you can get very creative with such a short filler that doesn't even have to musically relate to the rest of the song.
I'm working on a song that ends on a low, raspy organ note that fades out. I had a hole at the beginning of the song after I deleted the count-in, so I put the same low organ note at the beginning, fading it in. It was a cool effect and a novel way to deal with silence: fill it up!
(The tune's up on my Soundclick page - first on the list - still in the early stages, I threw it up there just to see how it sounds at 128Kbps)
Holy coincidence, Batman! On my latest song "Choir of Heaven"(I just posted on the songs forum today) I did the exact same thing with a synth sound! Great minds think alike...  Of course I've now ruined the song ending for you...  Sorry!
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AndyW
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/15 00:39:20
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ORIGINAL: bitflipper
(The tune's up on my Soundclick page - first on the list - still in the early stages, I threw it up there just to see how it sounds at 128Kbps)
hey Dave...can't say i agree with the lyrics(assuming I heard them all correctly..vocals are a bit muddy and you didn't have lyrics posted so I could totally be "not getting it")...anyway, I had to comment on the song and say you got some *amazing* guitar and synth chops! Wow. The song sets the mood and every part is well-done. The only negative(besides the lyrics ) would be that it's a tad bright...could be that my ears are shot from mixing today but normally that makes things sound *duller*. Just a nit. Wow...those organ glissandos are awesome...I'm gonna listen again...
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j boy
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/15 00:56:35
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Your song turned out well, Dave.
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Dave King
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/15 12:16:36
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Why not just delete the section you do not want after you have bounced to track(s)?
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Twigman
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/15 12:20:54
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Another shout for CW to fix the whole process of deleting measures across the whole project in Sonar. feature requested multiple times but must be on permanent ignore 
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j boy
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/15 13:10:11
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ORIGINAL: Dave King
Why not just delete the section you do not want after you have bounced to track(s)?
Yeah, that's how it's usually done. The reason the OP is having trouble doing what he's trying to do inside his SONAR project, is that it was never supposed to be done that way. You export the final mix as a wave file, at same bit depth and sample rate as project, then open either another instance of SONAR or a wave editor like Audacity, etc. as has been suggested, and re-import the exported stereo mix file. Then you trim the beginning (tops) and end (tails) as desired, add any fades, add any "mastering" processes in the fx bin, etc., export as a wave file at final 16/44.1 format and bingo. I'm at a loss to understand why anybody would want to try and remove space in the project file, at the beginning or end. I mean, why?
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Twigman
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RE: How do I remove empty space at the start of a project?
2008/01/15 13:13:09
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ORIGINAL: j boy
I'm at a loss to understand why anybody would want to try and remove space in the project file, at the beginning or end. I mean, why?
What about in the middle? It's f**king difficult. I do everything in Midi and often have a mix of audio & midi and might want to chop 8 bars or 16 bars out of the middle of a project. When one has CC & Host controller envelops all over the place and a mix of audio and midi, it's next to impossible in Sonar!
post edited by Twigman - 2008/01/15 13:27:41
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