mohak96
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/16 15:18:41
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slartabartfast
I doubt there are many people reading this forum who can speak to the music industry in India. The professionals who let you watch them work in a (recording?) studio might have some advice, assuming they do not just see you as a gullible musician from whom they can extract money. Such predatory people are pretty common in the US "recording" industry. In fact taking hopeful musicians' money with little chance of success, is probably the main money making activity for most of those in the world who have developed that skillset.
Coursera.org offers a number of courses about the music industry (primarily US & Europe) that would give you a feel for opportunities. Do not pay for course credit, that will be worth nothing in actually getting work. If you are interested in studying music (as opposed to making money as a musician/composer/songwriter) then academic courses may make sense, especially if becoming a music teacher is your eventual goal.
https://www.coursera.org/learn/music-business-foundations
https://www.coursera.org/learn/musicbiz
https://www.coursera.org/learn/music-industry
It is insanely speculative to imagine that you can earn money from some sort of self recording and digital distribution. For every act that went viral on YouTube and made it to a paying career there are many thousands who go nowhere. The best most musicians will get from that kind of exposure is the ability to point someone to an internet demo tape if they are trying to get someone to hire them to play live for a cheap venue like a wedding.
It would be nice to say that musicians who have spent decades perfecting their craft and working regularly in small venue live performance will eventually make it to a secure earnings plateau, but the evidence is that most will never go further than hand to mouth music income supplemented by a "day job" that actually pays the rent.
Yep, it's the same here. Gullible musicians would get ripped off right in front of me, like having to pay to get their music distributed, and then someone else would be credited for that same piece of music, and they would get nothing. I was in a mixing studio, by the way. I mostly compose electronically, so I just wanted to see how professionals mixed their projects. And yeah, I will be getting a day job ultimately, for when things do go south. But for now, music is the main focus.
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mohak96
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/16 15:24:42
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craigb
The best way to make a small fortune in the music industry is, unfortunately, to start with a large fortune. I think it's best to NOT get your hopes up, find work that gives you time for you to make and learn music as well as funding your gear. This way you won't be forced to try and make money (which is a big creativity killer). Once you've refined what makes your music "you" then definitely use some of the advice above and get it out using free sources like YouTube.
A few decades ago, with the right motivation, tons of self-learning, some unique talents, a few fortunate connections and a lot of luck, you could make a decent living. Now, not so much (ignoring the talent-less wastes of flesh that peddle horrible rubbish and pathetic opinions on people in the Top-40 pop genre which, even there requires a lot of what I said in the first sentence of this paragraph).
You're obviously young, so don't let us stop you from going for it but, just realize, it's not going to be an easy road to riches by any stretch of the imagination. So, my advice, is to keep enjoying music (leaving some hope for being that one that makes it), but find another means of income so music doesn't become a burden.
Good luck! 
Thanks! My hopes are as down as they can be, though. My music has already been rejected quite a bit.  But as I've said before, music is a passion, and riches come later. Much later. So I'm ready for the long road.
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/16 15:30:34
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☄ Helpfulby mohak96 2016/12/16 15:33:00
Musicians play music because they must, whether or not they make money, get applause, move out of their parent's basement, or receive anything of any value as compensation. Business people make money. They find out what people want and they sell it to them.
What many of the folks here are telling you is that earning money from music is extremely difficult and there is no one sure way to do it. Playing music, on the other hand, is another story. In order for your music to have commercial value to other people outside of your friends and family, you need to have a product that is worth buying. The best way (and only way as far as I know) to improve your music is to play. Use whatever you've got. Go where the musicians are. Hang out with them. Learn from them. Jam with them. Listen to them. Immerse yourself in the music.
The bottom line is that there is no get rich quick scheme in music. That well is empty. If your goal is to get rich, there are easier ways, like setting yourself on fire for a living. That may sound harsh, and I know that friends and family try to be kind and encourage you to follow your dreams. I don't want to squash that, but I usually tell aspiring rock stars that wanting and getting are two different things. Every American Idol contestant wannabe in the history of that monstrosity declared that they KNEW they would win because "I want it so-ooooooooooo badly!" Almost all of those people got smacked down by reality.
Here's the best advice (about anything) that I ever received. Don't waste time on what you can't do and focus on what you can do. Can't make money with music? Focus on what you can do. Get out and play. Pay your dues and put in the hard work of learning musical discipline. Don't have a place to perform? Run extension cords out of the house and play outside. Just play. If money comes your way, consider it a bonus and keep playing.
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mohak96
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/16 15:39:49
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UbiquitousBubba
Musicians play music because they must, whether or not they make money, get applause, move out of their parent's basement, or receive anything of any value as compensation. Business people make money. They find out what people want and they sell it to them.
What many of the folks here are telling you is that earning money from music is extremely difficult and there is no one sure way to do it. Playing music, on the other hand, is another story. In order for your music to have commercial value to other people outside of your friends and family, you need to have a product that is worth buying. The best way (and only way as far as I know) to improve your music is to play. Use whatever you've got. Go where the musicians are. Hang out with them. Learn from them. Jam with them. Listen to them. Immerse yourself in the music.
The bottom line is that there is no get rich quick scheme in music. That well is empty. If your goal is to get rich, there are easier ways, like setting yourself on fire for a living. That may sound harsh, and I know that friends and family try to be kind and encourage you to follow your dreams. I don't want to squash that, but I usually tell aspiring rock stars that wanting and getting are two different things. Every American Idol contestant wannabe in the history of that monstrosity declared that they KNEW they would win because "I want it so-ooooooooooo badly!" Almost all of those people got smacked down by reality.
Here's the best advice (about anything) that I ever received. Don't waste time on what you can't do and focus on what you can do. Can't make money with music? Focus on what you can do. Get out and play. Pay your dues and put in the hard work of learning musical discipline. Don't have a place to perform? Run extension cords out of the house and play outside. Just play. If money comes your way, consider it a bonus and keep playing.
Yep, I totally understand that music isn't the way to go for money, or fame, etc. I just like making music that's all. And as I said in my first post, I have finally gotten to making full songs. I aim to improve further, as much as I can and finesse my style of music. Earning a little along the way would just be icing on the cake.
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eph221
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/16 15:39:53
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☄ Helpfulby mohak96 2016/12/16 15:41:41
UbiquitousBubba
Musicians play music because they must, whether or not they make money, get applause, move out of their parent's basement, or receive anything of any value as compensation. Business people make money. They find out what people want and they sell it to them.
What many of the folks here are telling you is that earning money from music is extremely difficult and there is no one sure way to do it. Playing music, on the other hand, is another story. In order for your music to have commercial value to other people outside of your friends and family, you need to have a product that is worth buying. The best way (and only way as far as I know) to improve your music is to play. Use whatever you've got. Go where the musicians are. Hang out with them. Learn from them. Jam with them. Listen to them. Immerse yourself in the music.
The bottom line is that there is no get rich quick scheme in music. That well is empty. If your goal is to get rich, there are easier ways, like setting yourself on fire for a living. That may sound harsh, and I know that friends and family try to be kind and encourage you to follow your dreams. I don't want to squash that, but I usually tell aspiring rock stars that wanting and getting are two different things. Every American Idol contestant wannabe in the history of that monstrosity declared that they KNEW they would win because "I want it so-ooooooooooo badly!" Almost all of those people got smacked down by reality.
Here's the best advice (about anything) that I ever received. Don't waste time on what you can't do and focus on what you can do. Can't make money with music? Focus on what you can do. Get out and play. Pay your dues and put in the hard work of learning musical discipline. Don't have a place to perform? Run extension cords out of the house and play outside. Just play. If money comes your way, consider it a bonus and keep playing.
Like any business it's about relationships. The best advice here is to 1. learn an instrument (master it) 2. learn music theory (this might be a lifetime of learning), 3. don't bother with those ridiculous recording schools, but do learn some music. What you'll find on this website are many, many people who are way, way too concerned about how the production sounds. Don't bother with that advice, don't let it bother you a bit. Make the music that you hear or see make sure it takes you from one place to another (in your mind) and apply your learning from your instrument and theory. And forget the people down low. Go straight to the CEO of whichever music business you want to do and talk to them. Don't listen to other musicians and the AR people etc, they have skin in the game.. Go straight to the top. Stay away from drugs! Peace!
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mohak96
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/16 15:43:34
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eph221
Stay away from drugs! Peace!
That's my motto in life right there.
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Randy P
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/16 16:19:11
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☄ Helpfulby mohak96 2016/12/16 16:23:38
Due to the type of music you are recording, you are kind of limited to getting your songs into a publisher or a song listing service that caters to video/film makers. Then you just hope a client comes along and finds that your song matches what he has filmed. Kind of a long shot.
However, If you learned to play keyboard, you could do some street busking with the rest of your recorded song as a backing track. I see guys in New York City all the time who have a little generator and have their keyboard and microphone plugged in to a small mixer and they make some pretty decent money performing on the street.
I did some busking on acoustic guitar back in the late 70's on Redondo Beach pier. I made some decent cash and I thank all that's holy that there were no smart phones and internet back then to record how truly awful I must have been.
http://www.soundclick.com/riprorenband
The music biz is a cruel and shallow money trench,a plastic hallway where thieves & pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. Hunter S. Thompson
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bayoubill
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/16 16:31:26
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☄ Helpfulby mohak96 2016/12/18 16:55:11
Mohak - In this country Musicians are a dime a dozen. Competition is unbelievable. You won't make enough money to properly raise a family and give them what they need to succeed. Very few unless born into it , like a Kenny Wayne Sheppard, make a really good living at it and have to have a second income. If you want to raise a family that's the course that will make your life much easier
Education is the key to any endeavor. The more you know the more tools you have to succeed.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE A MARKETABLE PRODUCT YOU CAN SELL first. I have heard so many younguns say they have the talent, they can do at least that good etc. but if you put them in a position to "show me" they fall short
There is excellent advise above! Take what you can use and act on it. Music is work and a lot of it to propel yourself to a truly professional level. If music is your passion then there is no decision. You'll do the work without being told to. You will eventually become the musician you want to be. That does not mean you"ll be successful financially
I know so many great musicians that did very well in their early career that are now starving and can't go to a Doctor. They have nothing to fall back on. Others found a second vocation to fall back on and spend their free time playing semi professionally. That makes sense to me. I was fortunate enough to find a job playing full time with full pay as a musician. I have retirement coming in etc. That's rare.
Choosing music to accomplish fame and fortune is a tough tough road with many pitfalls.
Good luck to you and your journey. The music is in you. It won't go anywhere if you take a second job and skills.
Realize that if you feel that you must be or get rich and or famous, there are much better ways to achieve it.
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craigb
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/16 16:51:03
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Randy P
Due to the type of music you are recording, you are kind of limited to getting your songs into a publisher or a song listing service that caters to video/film makers. Then you just hope a client comes along and finds that your song matches what he has filmed. Kind of a long shot.
However, If you learned to play keyboard, you could do some street busking with the rest of your recorded song as a backing track. I see guys in New York City all the time who have a little generator and have their keyboard and microphone plugged in to a small mixer and they make some pretty decent money performing on the street.
I did some busking on acoustic guitar back in the late 70's on Redondo Beach pier. I made some decent cash and I thank all that's holy that there were no smart phones and internet back then to record how truly awful I must have been.
I would have helped you out Randy, but I didn't start donating to those busking on the pier until the 80's when my best friend moved to that area (right before the refinery blew up and wiped out much of the pier actually). 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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BobF
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/16 17:17:15
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craigb
The best way to make a small fortune in the music industry is, unfortunately, to start with a large fortune.
Darn it all to heck! I was going to wait an appropriate amount of time and post that
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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Hatstand
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/16 17:33:06
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☄ Helpfulby mohak96 2016/12/18 16:55:21
My advise for what it is worth is
1. Read Rudyard Kipling's poem "If"
2. Don't define your career path in advance, let the wind blow you where it will, but embrace every change
3. Practice, practice, practice till your fingers and ears bleed
4. Don't dismiss music based on genre learn from the differences it offers
5. Find out your strengths and weakness before anyone else does and work with them
6. You are not unlucky, everyone else has to deal with a*seholes too!
I started off as a musician, became an engineer because I loved being in the studio listening to my songs develop, became an engineer through soaking everything up like a sponge, mixed the two to become a producer, then travelled the world doing sound for a living. Couldn't have dreamed that coming from a backwater in Australia.
My band mate started off as a musician started the whole genre of sound/look alike bands but made his money doing songs for kids programs
My brother started off as a classical musician, now runs his own guitar school and has a worldwide distribution for his guitar and ukulele books and is well known as a blues guitarist in Australia.
Another brother started off as a drummer, found a non secular passion, gave up rock music because of it but then ended up playing the organ in his church.
oh and finally
7. Don't believe people who say you are better than you yourself know you are, they will suck you dry!
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jude77
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/16 20:17:20
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☄ Helpfulby mohak96 2016/12/18 16:55:27
Subscribe to this ezine. It's free, it's weekly, and it's good. http://www.musicthinktank.com/ It can give you a ton of ideas to get you started. Good luck!!
You haven't lived until you've taken the Rorschach. Windows 10 Home Edition 64-bit /6th Generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700 Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.0 GHz)/16GB (1x16GB) DDR4 2133MHz SDRAM Memory/ NVIDIA(R) GeForce(R) GT 730 with 2GB DDR3 Graphics Memory/ Dell KB216 Wired Multi-Media Keyboard English Black/ 802.11ac + Bluetooth 4.0/Integrated 7.1 with WAVE MAXXAudio Pro/Wireless 3165 driver
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bayoubill
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/16 20:22:16
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bayoubill
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/16 20:40:54
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It's obvious to me what those ink blots are!
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bapu
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/16 22:54:22
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Mesh
daryl1968
Hi Mohak
I'm an old fart
Oh no he didn't say that....
O s e did
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craigb
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/17 02:08:57
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☄ Helpfulby mohak96 2016/12/18 16:55:51
Noticed you said you are doing mostly electronic styles. Check out the following website. You'll not only find a LOT of free music to listen to and get ideas from, but you should be able to find comparable styles, see how your efforts compare so far and have an avenue to get your own stuff out there. Plus most of the guys are very approachable so, if you find someone who is where you want to be, ask 'em for advice! http://www.ektoplazm.com/
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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eph221
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/17 13:34:45
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☄ Helpfulby mohak96 2016/12/18 16:56:26
What I meant by the CEO comment was *find the decision maker and talk to them.* It's not always who you think it is. :D:D This is good life advice as well. Whenever you're doing anything in business (esp sales) talk to the decision maker or makers. In a restaurant, if you want the good table, talk to the person who's giving out the seats. If you're buying a car, talk to the person who's in control of the price.
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craigb
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/17 14:21:13
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eph221
What I meant by the CEO comment was *find the decision maker and talk to them.* It's not always who you think it is. :D:D This is good life advice as well. Whenever you're doing anything in business (esp sales) talk to the decision maker or makers. In a restaurant, if you want the good table, talk to the person who's giving out the seats. If you're buying a car, talk to the person who's in control of the price.
I'm single so I don't have a decision maker yet. 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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jude77
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/17 14:51:56
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bayoubill
Thanks for the post Jim!
Glad you like it. They have really good stuff. bayoubill
It's obvious to me what those ink blots are!
HA!! That's what everybody says!!
You haven't lived until you've taken the Rorschach. Windows 10 Home Edition 64-bit /6th Generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700 Processor (8M Cache, up to 4.0 GHz)/16GB (1x16GB) DDR4 2133MHz SDRAM Memory/ NVIDIA(R) GeForce(R) GT 730 with 2GB DDR3 Graphics Memory/ Dell KB216 Wired Multi-Media Keyboard English Black/ 802.11ac + Bluetooth 4.0/Integrated 7.1 with WAVE MAXXAudio Pro/Wireless 3165 driver
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eph221
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/17 16:05:52
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Starise
No matter what you learn from others, at some point you just have to take the giant leap and do it. More specifically offer a good service and believe enough in yourself to charge for it.
Start doing and start charging. Sounds simple right?
I haven't ever had the desire to do it or I would have done it years ago. I find plenty of satisfaction doing it as a hobby, but I know I could have done it.
Money in performance music probably isn't as profitable as making money recording for other acts. The education starts as soon as you start. During the education you can't quit. If you offer a good service someone is eventually going to pay you for it. Don't be a Mr. Nice guy...don't make too many exceptions or you'll never make any money.
Get paid up front and have them sign a contract. Make sure they know what you will do for the fee and what costs extra. Just do it.
This is good advice. Money changes everything.
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MandolinPicker
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/17 16:09:54
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☄ Helpfulby mohak96 2016/12/18 16:56:36
Let me mention a couple of things that I haven't seen listed above.
The first is that of being a teacher. If you enjoy playing and can pass that on to others, teaching can be extremely rewarding. You won't be famous, probably not make a lot of money, but you will have a huge impact on a number of souls. Most folks who play music remember their first music teacher, or that band teacher from school that made an impact on them. That type of impact can be very rewarding and last a lifetime. I have seen folks teach during the day while playing gigs at night and weekends, so it is something that can be combined with other activities, and helps pay the bills.
Another area that may be of interest is local churches. Not sure about India, but many churches here in the US have music directors. While most folks think all they do is direct the choir and pick hymns for Sunday, it is often much more. There is the interaction with little kids as they learn some of their first songs. The music director may be involved with the kids musical productions, typically at Christmas time (if a Christian church) but other productions throughout the year. Depending on the size of the church, there may be a wide assortment of musical styles and age groups you would work with. Like teaching, you won't make a lot of money or be famous. But it can also be a rewarding path to take.
The Mandolin Picker "Bless your hearts... and all your vital organs" - John Duffy "Got time to breath, got time for music!"- Briscoe Darling, Jr. Windows 8.1, Sonar Platinum (64-bit), AMD FX 6120 Six-Core, 10GB RAM
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/17 17:17:29
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☄ Helpfulby mohak96 2016/12/18 16:57:43
@ OP:
I don't think you can continue producing music (as you have been) and simply expect to get paid for it.
That's not a very realistic approach.
You need to find a specific area where you offer a needed skill/product.
This is true with any business endeavor (not just music).
Finding your niche can take time.
Life throws curve balls. Your ultimate niche may not be exactly what you expected.
Way back in the day, I (as many others) had the dream of being a rock-star.
As my life progressed, it was becoming more and more clear that the rock-star dream was just that (a dream).
But... as that door was closing, the technical side of music opened up in a big way.
I don't regret it at all...
I'm not a rock-star, but I get to work with them.
I've met music industry folks who I would never have imagined knowing (when I was a kid).
I get to spend every day helping other folks make music.
The music industry has changed radically over the past 20 years.
Many established acts no longer put emphasis on making records... as there's not much/any money in it.
Wonder why concert ticket prices are thru the roof?
Touring and Merch are how the bands (now) make money.
Playing live on a local level doesn't pay much, but you can make some spending money playing clubs/bars.
If it's all original music, it's a tougher path than being in a cover band.
In any business, networking is super important.
The bigger your network of friends/associates/colleagues, the greater the potential for business.
Though I don't have a specific answer for you, I know this...
It's going to take a lot of effort on your part.
You can't sit back and wait for folks to discover you.
You'll need to "pound the pavement".
You'll need to jam your foot in the first open door... and then work hard and deliver.
Once you've got the first job, you can use that as "leverage" (reputation/credibility) to get the next.
Two words come to mind...
Fire and Desire
If you have those two things, you'll ultimately find your way.
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bayoubill
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/17 17:21:26
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Guitarhacker
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Re: How do I start out with music as a profession?
2016/12/17 19:57:49
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☄ Helpfulby mohak96 2016/12/18 16:59:06
I haven't read every post so this might have been covered.
Playing in a band is a hard way to make a living. Long hours, low pay, and the varied and assorted problems you face on a daily basis. Most musicians hold day jobs for a reason. They like to eat more than once a week. I did it and it was fun.... heck I had a blast, but I also worked a day job for most of it.
If you are writing and recording shorter loops and such things, AND.... if you really like it...AND.... if they are decently recorded to broadcast quality..... writing cues for TV and film might be an option worth looking into. It is NOT an overnight path to paying your own rent and other bills. It's a business that takes time to build. Like other musicians, you will probably need to work a day job as you build your musical catalog and get publishers and libraries to not only handle it, but get it cut. I've had a few cuts in some TV shows and films, and I know a few folks who are pulling in high 5 figure and low 6 figure incomes from it.... but they have been at it for quite a while and are into some top notch libraries and work with some of the big names in the business.
The competition is tough and the bar is high, but there are hundreds of TV channels and shows and countless films that need music on a daily basis. It's an easier aspect of the business to get into than trying to break as an artist and it beats gigging all over the state at clubs that offer a percentage of the door take.
Any way.... just another possibility.
EDIT: Oh yeah.... almost forgot... how to start. Search on line foe MUSIC LIBRARIES and find a few. They should have a "How do I submit music" button somewhere on the site. Inquire via email. Or.... if they have a submission form, send them one or two of your best for evaluation. They will either approve you or tell you to try again in 6 months. Don't stop with just one library. Put your stuff in multiple libraries paying attention to their terms. If they are exclusive, don't send that song to anyone else. If they are non-exclusive, send it to everyone else who is non-exclusive.
Keep GOOD records on your dealings and placements.
AND..... JOIN one of the Perfomance Rights organizations. PRO for short. BMI, ASCAP, SESAC. It's free for writers and..... That's who pays you.
Have fun and success.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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