redbarchetta
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How do the stock plugins compare?
Just curious to know how the fx plugins that come stock compare to 3rd party. The ones I'm mostly curious about are the things like EQ, Compression and anything dealing with mastering. Are they pretty good?
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John
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 01:30:14
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All the CW plugins are outstanding. They compare very well with third party plugins.
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redbarchetta
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 01:42:53
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So no need to go invest in something like IKMultimedia's toys?
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sharke
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 01:54:19
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You'll probably find yourself investing in others eventually. Not because the stock Sonar plugs are lacking - they're not, they're excellent - but because they don't cover every situation and flavor. It wouldn't be possible to cover all possibilities with stock plugins, because they'd have to bundle hundreds of them. For instance, the track & bus compressors that come with the ProChannel are perfectly adequate for everyday compression tasks, but you might find yourself investing in the PC2A Leveler as well, because it just sounds so much more musical for certain tasks. I do love the ProChannel EQ though, and haven't yet found a situation in which I found it lacking, EXCEPT the fact that for some reason you cannot have more than one instance of it in a ProChannel (why Cakewalk, why?).
If you're like most of us then you'll be addicted to plugs and having a huge palette of them at your disposal. I love trying new plugs and there are thousands of freebies out there. I've got a stack of them that I know I'm only going to use once in a blue moon (wow and flutter, anyone?), but I hang onto them for those blue moon situations anyway.
Some of the older Cakewalk/Sonitus plugs have a bit of a dated look about them, but they're still excellent. I can't think of one that I've thought was crap. I love the Softube saturation knob and the tube saturation too, I can't imagine not using them on a project.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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John
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 01:58:07
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I do have third party plugins and I think its a matter of what you really need not so much what you may want. When I moved to Windows 8 I had the chance to look at what plugins I actually had and it was a very long list. What I actually used was a lot shorter. Plus the PC has taken the place of many.
The first thing was to get rid of as many 32 bit plugins I could. Than I did install the ones I did have a use for. As few 32 bit one as I could.
If IK has something you count on by all means its your DAW so you should add what you need. On the other hand I have maintained for a long time now on this forum that CW supplies all the plugins one would need and a few one may only use rarely.
I think if you are just getting started it will serve you well to learn what the CW plugins can do. Then when you find you do really need one from a third party it will be a good investment.
One plugin I recommend is the Voxengo Span which is free and very useful.
Everyone here will have a favorite plugin or plugins don't be to quick to jump on one simply because a member likes it.
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redbarchetta
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 02:05:40
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Thanks. Good to know that the stock plugins are great quality. It's easy to get overwhelmed by all the optional toys you can get either for free or pay for.
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chuckebaby
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 02:26:49
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John
I do have third party plugins and I think its a matter of what you really need not so much what you may want. When I moved to Windows 8 I had the chance to look at what plugins I actually had and it was a very long list. What I actually used was a lot shorter. Plus the PC has taken the place of many.
The first thing was to get rid of as many 32 bit plugins I could. Than I did install the ones I did have a use for. As few 32 bit one as I could.
If IK has something you count on by all means its your DAW so you should add what you need. On the other hand I have maintained for a long time now on this forum that CW supplies all the plugins one would need and a few one may only use rarely.
I think if you are just getting started it will serve you well to learn what the CW plugins can do. Then when you find you do really need one from a third party it will be a good investment.
One plugin I recommend is the Voxengo Span which is free and very useful.
Everyone here will have a favorite plugin or plugins don't be to quick to jump on one simply because a member likes it.
I didnt know you finally upgraded to windows 8.good for you john. :) sounds like you had to make some reasonable desicions in what to re-install for plugs. i know you were a vista man for a long time.happy for you. i will also be taking a look at voxengo span as well,sharke actually turned me on to a plug in last night called;tone projects,basslane. heard him taking about in another thread,its a free vst plug in as well. its pretty amazing for a freezer.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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John
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 02:35:28
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Charlie you just prove this place has a long memory.  I didn't hide that I was moving to Win 8. I figured that if X2 was going to be absent Vista support it was time to move on. I still have Vista on a removable HD just as I do with Win 8. I can go back and forth with a simple change of HD. I have not wanted to load up Vista because I really like Windows 8. I saw no reason to upgrade to Windows 7 but 8 proved a good upgrade for me. Back to plugins. Sorry for the off topic.
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sharke
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 03:36:55
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chuckebaby
i will also be taking a look at voxengo span as well,sharke actually turned me on to a plug in last night
called;tone projects,basslane.
heard him taking about in another thread,its a free vst plug in as well.
its pretty amazing for a freezer.
Great isn't it. I use it on every track that has low frequencies. I'm not sure whether it's best to put it on every individual track with low end, or to just whack it on the master bus. I lean toward putting it on every track, the last thing in the chain. It really solves a lot of problems. Like tonight, I put down a Rhodes keyboard part which I wanted really wide in the stereo field. But I wanted to keep the left hand bass part centered in the mix. Basslane: bang. Perfect! It's also great for those epic stereo pads that have a wide frequency range. I'd often found myself hi-passing the lows out of them to stop them getting muddy in the mix, but with Basslane you can keep the low part of the pad perfectly centered and let the highs do whatever they want. Just wish there was a 64-bit version - mind, I've never had a problem with it so far, it plays very nice with Sonar.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Jeff M.
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 04:46:55
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Lots of great advice here.
What are you looking for?
General mastering? Head to Ozone 5.
Pultec type EQ? Overtone makes a good one.
Channel Strip? DNR makes a decent one with the Mix Control Pro.
For freebie stuff, check out any of the Andress stuff
Platinum 64 RME UCX | Studio Cat Platinum: i7 2700k @ 4.5Ghz | 16Gb DDR3 | Win 7 64Komplete Kontrol S61 Gibson, Jackson, Parker, Suhr, Breedlove, Taylor, Lakland, Peavey, Marshall, Kemper
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mudgel
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 06:02:16
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You could do worse than cutting your teeth on Sonar's suite of included plugins.
By the time you learn how and when to use them all, you'll be ready to explore 3rd party ones.
Sometimes having too many choices will create more problems than solutions.
Of course if you suffer with a lot of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) or PUS (Plugin Users Syndrome) you'll never have enough.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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TS
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 06:45:29
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"You could do worse than cutting your teeth on Sonar's suite of included plugins.
By the time you learn how and when to use them all, you'll be ready to explore 3rd party ones.
Sometimes having too many choices will create more problems than solutions."
i could not say it better
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redbarchetta
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 08:50:31
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What am I looking for? Oh hell, I really don't know. I just see all these advertisements for slick looking plug ins that do this and that. The reality of it is, it will be a long time before I have anything (personal music) I would ever try to put up on some sharing/pay site. Sooooo easy to get captivated by all the toys. EDIT TO ADD Ok, I just thought of something here. I would like plug-ins that help me visualize what is going on, not so much in EQ, but rather things like compression. I get what compression is and does, however, I can't always "HEAR" what it's doing. Example; I've purchased a few video sets from Groove3. And the guy who is presenting will add a compressor, make some adjustments in his video while explaining. He can hear a difference but I struggle to hear it. When he makes large adjustments, I can hear it, but sometimes the adjustments being made seem so slight that the only way to know if it's actually doing anything is to trust what is being visually displayed in the compressors indicators. So, things that deal with compression and limiting, the more visual indication of what's happening to the audio the better. Maybe this is my punishment for being a stoner back in the 80s listening to bands like : Van Halen, RUSH, Scorpions, Def Leppard, RATT, Tesla... you get the idea. God bless the 80s!
post edited by redbarchetta - 2013/02/23 08:58:13
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Razorwit
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 09:06:06
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Hi redbarchetta,
If you're looking to hear as well as see what a plug is doing look at fab filter. Absolutely the best interfaces out there for visual feedback, and they're great sounding plugs as well.
Good luck
Dean
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Jeff M.
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 13:15:05
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RedB - go get this http://www.voxengo.com/product/span This is great for finding specific areas that need attention ...and showing the results when you make changes. I had some spikes in a swirly keyboard pad and I knew it was somewhere in the 100-300Hz range, but broad EQing and compression was dulling it up too much. I checked the track with Span and it showed the problem. I ended up putting 3 EQs (Waves Q10 - single band Q1) each with a with a narrow notch (-5 db @ 110, 220 and 243Hz). I had to use 3 separate instances because when adding a 2nd band that close, it influenced the freqs to the sides and dipped areas (increased the Q) that didn't need EQing - particularly in the 220 and 243 Hz area. Wouldn't have been able to figure that out w/o seeing it visually. Mess with the edit button to create presets that show the details at certain frequencies. You'll be able to see the differences between the stock Stereo Mastering vs the Lo-Freq Inspection presets. Very helpful tool. Oh yeah, make sure Span is last in the chain so you can see the results of comp & EQ changes. Not admitting that I might have done that before, but ummmmm ...I may have 
post edited by Jeff M. - 2013/02/23 13:22:10
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Beepster
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 13:27:24
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Two Pro Channel module add ons that seem to be universally well liked and add a lot to a project are the PC2A Leveling Compressor and the Concrete Limiter so keep an eye on the monthly specials section of the Cakewalk Store. They go on sale every so often. You may also want to take a look at the Pro Channel bundle which includes those two modules as well as some other. I own the PC2A and it makes things sound VERY nice. Still waiting for my monetary situation to improve before snagging the Concrete Limiter.
Cheers.
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scook
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 13:29:09
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A decent EQ that also shows spectrum (and a bunch of other handy tools, including a limiter) can be had for free http://www.meldaproductio...?id=MFreeEffectsBundle Should you choose to purchase a license, it is on sale for less than $30 for the bundle through the end of the month.
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Beepster
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 13:32:52
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BTW from your posts I get the impression you are into more vintage rock. I find the PC2A is great for making things sound warmer like those older recordings. It's modeled on a vintage compressor that apparently used to live in a lot of those older studios.
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robert_e_bone
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 16:46:10
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Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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robert_e_bone
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 16:50:50
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Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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John
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 16:51:33
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scook
A decent EQ that also shows spectrum (and a bunch of other handy tools, including a limiter) can be had for free http://www.meldaproductio...?id=MFreeEffectsBundle Should you choose to purchase a license, it is on sale for less than $30 for the bundle through the end of the month.
We are trying to limit the amount of plugins the poor OP is inundated with. LOL That bundle which I have and bought has a ton of plugins. I do recommend it but only after the OP has explored all the ones in Sonar and knows how to use them.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 17:09:16
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John
One plugin I recommend is the Voxengo Span which is free and very useful.
+1 Voxengo Span is an absolute must-have in the VST toolkit. Mind you, I have to be completely honest and say that in my opinion, the newer version (2.5?) isn't half as good as the previous version (1.9). In particular, I find the customisation available on the old version to be far superior. Even though the newest incarnation is available in 64bit, I still use the older 32bit version of 1.9. In fact I believe it's the only Bitbridged plug-in I now use at all in X2.  If anyone wants the .dll of this older version, just PM me your email Edit - I have the manual for it as well.
post edited by SteveStrummerUK - 2013/02/23 17:19:41
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 17:16:09
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**duplicate post deleted**
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redbarchetta
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 17:25:20
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GUYS!!!! I'm trying to stop looking at toys and you keep putting them in my face! Free or not. . See what happens is, I go look at free plugins that lead me to look at their pay for plugins that lead me to look at their bundles that lead me to analysis paralysis. Shart man... I started a post, got side tracked came back to finish and I'll be damned if there were more links.. With all these plugins i'm like a kid in a toy store.
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sharke
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 17:33:19
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I have a bookmark folder in my browser that has about 100 links to freebie plugs that people have raved about on forums. It's a good job I'm lazy because I would have totally downloaded and installed them by now.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Beepster
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 17:37:52
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One thing to keep in mind is that third party plug ins (especially free ones) may not play so well with Sonar so be careful. I think a lot of the success I've had with my system being reasonably stable using Sonar is because I've limited myself to 64 bit plug ins (because I have Sonar 64 bit installed) that are either put out directly by Cakewalk or are known to be rock solid in the Sonar environment.
If you are going to experiment I would recommend creating a restore point before installing any new stuff and learn how to use Sonar Safe Mode properly so if you do run into problems you can easily troubleshoot what plug ins are causing problems.
Cheers.
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redbarchetta
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 17:41:12
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Beepster
One thing to keep in mind is that third party plug ins (especially free ones) may not play so well with Sonar so be careful. I think a lot of the success I've had with my system being reasonably stable using Sonar is because I've limited myself to 64 bit plug ins (because I have Sonar 64 bit installed) that are either put out directly by Cakewalk or are known to be rock solid in the Sonar environment.
If you are going to experiment I would recommend creating a restore point before installing any new stuff and learn how to use Sonar Safe Mode properly so if you do run into problems you can easily troubleshoot what plug ins are causing problems.
Cheers.
STRONGLY NOTED! I think for a while I'm going to play it safe and use Cakewalk stuff. They seem to have everything I need right now anyway. Other than the spectrum analyzer. I did just install that.
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Beepster
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 17:46:25
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It's definitely for the best. Companies I'd say are safe to use are:
Izotope
FXpansion (and Platinum Samples)
Whoever makes that Softube Stuff
Native Instruments
Overloud
and obviously Cakewalk. With those companies you should have a good pool of goodies to play with. It ain't cheap though. Cheers.
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redbarchetta
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 18:08:17
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You didn't mention IK Multimedia... No go for their T Racks gear?
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scook
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Re:How do the stock plugins compare?
2013/02/23 18:11:26
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I believe Beep's list is a little incomplete. Trying to keep within the limits of the thread, I did not want to expand on the list of vendors. There is a forum below that discusses a lot of software options. FWIW, the 1K stuff is popular.
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