The Maillard Reaction
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How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
How many of you upgrade each year no matter what?
I do it each year because I figure the best way a customer can help is by being an active partner. I send in the requested revenue each time Cakewalk asks for it.
That's what I've been doing, but I've been figuring out by reading this forum that perhaps not so many people do it every year.
It seems like a lot of folks I assumed just send in the money actually wait a few years until they see something they really like and then they upgrade.
I figure I'm paying for work that I can't see... the maintenance and stuff that keeps the audio engine running with the latest OS and plugins. So I don't wait to find out what I can't even understand... I just want my application to remain compatible and running smooth as I keep the hardware in my machine up to date.
Maybe some people could explain what they do? Maybe they will explain why the do it the way they do it?
all the best,
mike
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 10:23:40
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My first ever DAW was Sonar 6.2.1
I missed out on 7, because it was released just a month after I bought 6 and felt a bit peeved that a new version was already available. It seemed to me as though the DAW vendor was simply moving old stock off their shelves.
At the time, I wasn't aware of the annual upgrade.
I held back on 8 until the initial bugs were ironed out, but went headlong into X1. Silly me.
I don't think I'll be upgrading again until the forum reports that a new version, as far as possible, is reasonably stable - AND it contains new features that I find desirable.
Otherwise I'm going to stick with what I know works.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 10:28:26
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I went 2->5->7->8->8.5/X1 (the buy 8.5 get X1 free deal) If there's something I want or think I'll need from an upgrade I do it. If not I don't. I think several people here think upgrading is compulsory so it's a good job you've raised the issue. 
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Dave Modisette
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 10:40:06
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I pretty much do it for the same reason. I'm currently evaluating that behavior.
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Beagle
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 10:53:47
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deanx
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 11:05:28
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I started with Sonar Power Studio (the Cakewalk UA-25 interface and Sonar 6 Studio) in 2008, then went to Sonar 8 Priducer, 8.5.3 and then X1. Although, I held of with the immediate upgrade to X1 until X1B was released.
I've always upgraded for the new and improved features and as soon as I saw the fresh look of X1 one I was hooked. I couldn't stop watching the promo video.
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codamedia
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 11:10:32
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2 > 4 > 6 > 7* > 8.5 > X1 (all producer, but I will be re-thinking that going forward. I rarely use the "Producer Only" inclusions)
I have often missed a version for various reasons. - I never owned 5 because I did not see enough in it to upgrade - and because 4 was working so good.
- I never bought version 8 because I felt burned by version 7 - which I could never get going on my machine! (Let's say that was my X1)
- 8.5 was a great addition, as is X1 (X1 fits my workflow, and luckily it has been stable on my setup).
Will I buy X2? Only if it continues building on stability (audio engine, lower resources, etc...) and desired features (VST3, varispeed, etc...). I am not nearly as interested in yet another effect or Synth (see my comment above about Producer Only inclusions).
post edited by codamedia - 2011/08/03 11:15:51
Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take!
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bobr
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 11:18:56
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I have since I started with SONAR 5. So I went SONAR 5, 6, 7, 8 and then purchased the upgrade to 8.5 with the free upgrade to X1.
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Jimbo 88
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 11:23:28
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I upgrade no matter what. In the 90's I made thousands of dollars year after year using a cracked version of Cakewalk, so I feel guilty. I don't jump right away, but just long enough to hear what issues are there.
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brundlefly
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 11:33:05
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I skipped many releases between Cakewalk for DOS 2.0 and SONAR 6. The longest lapse was probably between Pro Audio 9 and S4. I think that was when I discovered girls... or was it motorcycles? I forget, exactly, but then I discovered the Cakewalk forum, and now I'm driven to get every release hot off the presses to keep up with the Joneses, and be among the first to find out which 100 of the 7000 bugs got fixed this year, and whether any of my personal top 10 made the list. And like Mike, I also want to help keep Cakewalk in the money so the fixes will keep coming, and the forum will be here when I'm old and decrepit, and can't ride my motorcycles anymore, but feel like doing something a little dangerous... like contradicting one of the Johns. 
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
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yorolpal
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 11:34:35
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Seems like I'm always upgrading or updating something or other so, yes, I used to upgrade to every single iteration of Sonar. My old modus operandi was to wait about a month or so after each new major update to Sonar till all the "nasty parts" had been flogged to death on the forum and, perhaps, a fix or two had been posted AND THEN upgrade. But now my DAW needs are (almost) so "over-met" and my collections of third party synths, samplers, fx, etc...is so extensive and so powerful that I, like Mod above, am rethinking my upgrading policy.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 11:42:49
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.......... will be here when I'm old and decrepit, and can't ride my motorcycles anymore, but feel like doing something a little dangerous..........
Some will tell you using a new release of SOnar IS more dangerous than riding motorcycles. 
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codamedia
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 11:47:47
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FastBikerBoy
.......... will be here when I'm old and decrepit, and can't ride my motorcycles anymore, but feel like doing something a little dangerous..........
Some will tell you using a new release of SOnar IS more dangerous than riding motorcycles.
Doesn't that only apply to those with talent?
Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take!
Desktop: Win 7 Pro 64 Bit , ASUS MB w/Intel Chipset, INTEL Q9300 Quad Core, 2.5 GHz, 8 GB RAM, ATI 5450 Video Laptop: Windows 7 Pro, i5, 8 Gig Ram Hardware: Presonus FP10 (Firepod), FaderPort, M-Audio Axiom 49, Mackie 1202 VLZ, POD X3 Live, Variax 600, etc... etc...
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donbelisle
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 11:59:41
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Cakewalk for DOS 1.0 ->
Stop updating mid way thru the ProAudio series,
Came back all the way since S1 > SX1,
However, I will wait next few updates, until I hear the reviews
from the forum users. ( I will do X1C )
What I have today, works well beyond my needs.
Even with the issues, I love my DAW.
Don Belisle
Q6600, i5, Xp pro SP3 32 bit, Win 7 64 bit, Motu Ultralite III, M-Audio Fast Trac Ultra
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bsteven
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 12:01:36
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Until Cakewalk works to improve staff view and it becomes a more effective composition tool, after 20 years of fairly consistent upgrades, I'm done. The audio and recording features offered in Sonar today suit my needs just fine.
Sonar X3e Producer/ Win7 64-bit/Sony VAIO/Core i3 2370M @ 2.4 GHZ/ 8GB DDR/ 500GB HD/ATI Mobility Radeon HD4650/ SCEPTRE X270W/ Motu 4Pre/ Axiom 49
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windsurfer25x
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 12:01:45
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Well I got on board the Sonar train at 8.. So I got 8.5 for free I think, if I'm remembering correctly. I updated to X1. Whether I will upgrade to the next version? I don't know I guess it depends what's in it.
Sonar X1 Expanded PE 64 bit
Intel i7 2600k oc'd, 16Gb DDR3 RAM, intel 320 SSD OS drive, 7200RPM HDDx2, Windows 7 Pro 64 bit VS 100, Tascam US-2000, UAD2 - Izotope, Fabfilter, NI Komplete 7/Kore2 & +, Spectrasonics+ http://www.maskensmobilestudio.com
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damon777
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 12:06:30
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Started with Cakewalk Pro Audio 6, then left it until Sonar 7 and have bought each new upgrade since!
Dell XPS 430, 8GB Win7 64 VS 100 x2 PCR 500 8.5 PE X1D Expanded X2A Producer E Omnisphere, Stylus, Trillian Alesis M1 620`S Alesis M1 520`S. Novation Nocturn.
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Keni
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 12:11:03
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Ha!
I've been doing so for much the same reason(s)... To help them (12 Tones) continue as well as supply me with a more robust set of tools...
I've been using Cakewalk products since Cakewalk was 12-Tones, and the software Cakewalk For Windows was released.... Updated every year to Pro Audio and finally Sonar.... Now maybe they'll drop the sonar and simply call it X? ;-)
They have always been there for me supplying my needs as well as inspiring me with new tools/ideas.... and I've always been anxious and ready to upgrade with no reservations.... and rarely having too many problems....
...until X1
Now I'm frustrated at many turns. I don't believe that it's me getting used to the changes, but that many of the changes have stifled my work flow.
I intend to continue and knowing me, I'll probably end up ordering X2 (or whatever name) without hesitation in the hopes/belief that far more will be addressed than in the X1c release.... All this mind you is tempered by whether they've fixed the driver issue as I can't install/use QuickFix 255)...
I can't find anywhere else to turn even if I did decide to... I've looked and I still can't find anything better... more I've found that where Cakewalk used to be on top of the list, now they can fit anywhere in the list as they've dropped to "one of the gang"... So I get to chose which gang member I work with and follow basically the same set of tools... Maybe this is in the dream of making a "standard" for DAW's? ............Nah, just current decision making.
Maybe my viewpoint is not that of the masses, but if Cakewalk is still trying to please 'all' their' user base, they now have farther to go than they did before X1...
I know there are those out there who think that the few of us here in the forum who have ragged against so many issues in X1, are indeed that few, but I believe you may be wrong and that those users who are really busy working don't have the time or state of mind to spend here in the forum complaining...
So those such as I who are not the leading edge of the music world are rapidly to become total relics.... Maybe someone will dig up my dead body which I plan to have buried with a copy of Sonar and the albums I've made and not sold.... ;-)
Here's looking to the future-past.
Keni
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 12:16:52
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One thing I can't wait to find out is what, if anything, those who miss out X1 and go direct from 8.5 to X2 will actually miss out on? Other than, of course, a year of using the program. Does any one think we got any new toys in X1 that won't be in X2?
Anyway, here's my pathway: Guitar Tracks 2 → Guitar Tracks Pro 2 → Music Creator 24 → Guitar Tracks Pro 3 → SONAR Home Studio 6XL → SONAR Home Studio 7XL → SONAR 8 Studio → SONAR 8 Producer → SONAR 8.5 Producer → SONAR X1 Producer Interesting ride, and now it looks like I'm locked into the annual/versional upgrade
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Bub 
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 12:17:09
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1. Sonar 8 Producer Edition
2. Sonar 8.5 Producer Edition
3. Sonar X1 Producer Edition
I used Pro Audio 9 and Sonar 4 in a friends home studio. He was very gifted with MIDI and he actually got me on the Cakewalk/Sonar bandwagon. So technically I didn't start paying for Sonar in my own home until 8.0 even though I was quite familiar and used Cake/Sonar software for many years.
If they don't fix this Pro Channel nightmare, I'm done though. I'm not even going to waste my time with X1C now that I see no mention of the Pro Channel. It's unbelievable. Probably not even going to hang around here anymore. Why? You know what I mean? I don't support paying for broken software. And they wonder why people download this crap illegally.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 12:31:38
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Bub
1. Sonar 8 Producer Edition
2. Sonar 8.5 Producer Edition
3. Sonar X1 Producer Edition
I used Pro Audio 9 and Sonar 4 in a friends home studio. He was very gifted with MIDI and he actually got me on the Cakewalk/Sonar bandwagon. So technically I didn't start paying for Sonar in my own home until 8.0 even though I was quite familiar and used Cake/Sonar software for many years.
If they don't fix this Pro Channel nightmare, I'm done though. I'm not even going to waste my time with X1C now that I see no mention of the Pro Channel. It's unbelievable. Probably not even going to hang around here anymore. Why? You know what I mean? I don't support paying for broken software. And they wonder why people download this crap illegally.
Bub, Can you clarify this issue for me? You keep mentioning that everyone is seeing a problem with ProChannel across various threads, and I hate to be frank, but I think you are misinforming some people. The only report that you have sent us that clearly identified an issue with ProChannel turning on was due to a particular project uploaded that had automation envelopes specifically assigned to ProChannel controls. We acknowledged this bug because the ProChannel modules shouldn't initially auto-engage when reading an automation envelope assigned to ProChannel parameters. Once turning off the PC module, or of course removing the automation envelope assigned to the PC parameter, this auto-engage no longer happened with that project. This is actually not that random and takes some very, VERY specific steps to replicate (never turning on a PC module in a specific project, re-assigning an envelope to a PC module's parameter, creating a node somewhere on that envelope, then playing the project and noticing the PC module turned on because it had never auto-engaged before). The above behavior, though unintended, actually makes a lot of sense to me in regards to why it is happening. The good news is that you won't ever encounter this if you do not have envelopes mapped to PC controls. It's important to not take this particular report out of context and assume that Cakewalk knows about ProChannel problems because this one particular report was acknowledged. Don't assume that this is just the "ProChannel randomly turning on/off issue" and that it will be fixed in X1c, because aside from the above I still can't replicate any random behavior personally across multiple test machines. That's not to say that people aren't running into weirdness, but I'm personally pretty keen to finding problems and I still can't get PC to randomly turn on/off with the latest builds. If there is a real problem here, I'd like nothing more then to be able to acknowledge it/replicate it and then personally move on to harassing people smarter then me to get it fixed :) With that being said, however, I don't think everyone is seeing the behavior you are and if there is a real issue here I think it would be beneficial for all of us if you could clarify and not assume everyone is seeing the same behavior. If people are running into real problems with ProChannel turning on and off, your best bet is to fill out an official report via the Problem Reporter and upload the project file in question or get on the phone with our techs. We have a sticky on the top of this forum with contact information for troubleshooting through issues that cannot be explained, such as this.
post edited by Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk] - 2011/08/03 12:36:48
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Keni
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 12:34:17
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SteveStrummerUK
One thing I can't wait to find out is what, if anything, those who miss out X1 and go direct from 8.5 to X2 will actually miss out on? Other than, of course, a year of using the program.
Does any one think we got any new toys in X1 that won't be in X2?
Anyway, here's my pathway:
Guitar Tracks 2 → Guitar Tracks Pro 2 → Music Creator 24 → Guitar Tracks Pro 3 → SONAR Home Studio 6XL → SONAR Home Studio 7XL → SONAR 8 Studio → SONAR 8 Producer → SONAR 8.5 Producer → SONAR X1 Producer
Interesting ride, and now it looks like I'm locked into the annual/versional upgrade
There are frequently bundled items that get dropped... The list is varied... But they (mostly) all still work in the latest version if you keep them installed... As to the actual UI? I think that discussion is/has been covered in many other threads. I'm holding back the urge to turn this thread into another... ;-) Keni
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Skyline_UK
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 12:37:47
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I've gone with every upgrade since Sonar 2. I usually like the improvements and additions of each upgrade, but it's also because I don't want to get stuck using a non-supported version.
My stuff Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600 @ 3.4GHz, 4 cores, 8 threads, 16GB RAM.OS & Programs drive: 240GB SSD
Data drives: 1 x 1TB drive RAID mirrored, plus extra 1TB data drive
Windows 10 Home 64 bit
Cakewalk by BandLab 64 bit, Studio One 3, Band In A Box 2016, Ozone 8+ too many other pluginsBandLab page
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Bub
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 12:39:03
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Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Excellent post Ryan. Thank you.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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ggg
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 12:48:19
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I treat it like a subscription. Annual fee to subsidize ongoing development/support.
$100/yr = $2/wk. In spite of the flaws it is an inexpensive tool.
ggg
It was all so different, before everything changed... Sonar Platinum Lifetimer, CW Synths+++, HP Pavilion Laptop dv7t Quad i7 3610, 16g, .75t hybrid drive, W10 64bit
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Bub
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 13:04:27
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Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Bub,
Can you clarify this issue for me? You keep mentioning that everyone is seeing a problem with ProChannel across various threads, and I hate to be frank, but I think you are misinforming some people.
I don't recall saying "everyone" ... it's very clear this is a very random problem that does not effect all systems. It doesn't even happen on my system all the time. The only report that you have sent us that clearly identified an issue with ProChannel turning on was due to a particular project uploaded that had automation envelopes specifically assigned to ProChannel controls.
The problem with that Ryan is, it was doing it on other tracks that didn't have an envelope. And the second problem is, I couldn't recreate the problem again, so I wasn't able to do a video capture of it doing it on the track without the envelope.
This is actually not that random and takes some very, VERY specific steps to replicate (never turning on a PC module in a specific project, re-assigning an envelope to a PC module's parameter, creating a node somewhere on that envelope, then playing the project and noticing the PC module turned on because it had never auto-engaged before).
That's not what was happening. But again, out of the blue it just stopped doing it and I wasn't able to do any more video captures so I can't prove it. I have to say, that project was an anomaly. I have never been able to make the Pro Channel turn on repeatedly at will like I could in that project. It's always been very random. The above behavior, though unintended, actually makes a lot of sense to me in regards to why it is happening. The good news is that you won't ever encounter this if you do not have envelopes mapped to PC controls.
That wasn't the case with the project I sent you ... again, it was doing it on a track without an envelope as well. At the time I didn't see any significance in pointing that out, I wish I would have now. That's not to say that people aren't running into weirdness, but I'm personally pretty keen to finding problems and I still can't get PC to randomly turn on/off with the latest builds.
If there is a real problem here, I'd like nothing more then to be able to acknowledge it/replicate it and then personally move on to harassing people smarter then me to get it fixed :)
There is a problem Ryan. I know for a fact that one other forum member has sent in a bug report on this and there has been whole threads started about it. The lack of people's willingness to send in bug reports does not take away from the fact there is a problem ... With that being said, however, I don't think everyone is seeing the behavior you are and if there is a real issue here I think it would be beneficial for all of us if you could clarify and not assume everyone is seeing the same behavior.
Again, it's obvious some people are having no problems, but there are plenty who are. I can't force them to send in bug reports. Maybe your Tech Support should spend a little time scouring the forums a little, or if they do, maybe take the problems they see listed here a little more seriously? Anyway ... it's clear X1 is not going to work on my system so it's just time to move along. Thanks.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Paul Russell
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 13:06:32
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ggg
I treat it like a subscription. Annual fee to subsidize ongoing development/support.
$100/yr = $2/wk. In spite of the flaws it is an inexpensive tool.
ggg
Me too. We get extremely good value for money, IMHO.
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Twigman
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 13:16:38
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S5PE>S6PE>S7PE>S8.5PE>X1PE
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Rickbass
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 13:19:28
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I update everything and will pay more money..since 1989..more...more...!
Rick Langs rickbass@tx.rr.com core-i7/WIN 10/16GigRam64bit/ Dell Studio XPS435MT/ Sonar Platinum/ CalkwalkUA-25EX, Mackie Boards. Smith Bass, Selmer Sax,Flute, Fantom G6 Keys
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Re:How many of you upgrade your SONAR license each year no matter what?
2011/08/03 13:23:43
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Bub
...
Again, it's obvious some people are having no problems, but there are plenty who are. I can't force them to send in bug reports. Maybe your Tech Support should spend a little time scouring the forums a little, or if they do, maybe take the problems they see listed here a little more seriously?
Anyway ... it's clear X1 is not going to work on my system so it's just time to move along.
Thanks.
This is and always has been a user forum. We have publicly announced countless times that we do not provide official support on the forums and that the only way to be sure we know about issues is to notify us directly. Why do we take this stance? Here are a few reasons: - because people pirate SONAR - because people modify SONAR - because people install SONAR on unsupported platforms - because on the forums we have no way of knowing if people have done any of the above - because it is not an efficient way for us to support our customers - because things get taken out of context - because we have people reaching out directly to us via phones and emails Dealing with us directly allows us to get past the above problems. We offer free phone support for 2 years on all products, and free email support for life. Our Technical Support staff is VERY passionate about working with our software and we are all musicians as well. I don't think it is fair to assume that we aren't paying attention and that our Tech Support staff doesn't take things seriously. Bub, I personally looked into your problem report. I could not replicate the behavior you are describing other then with that one particular track. I also tested this project across multiple machines. I actually attached your report to a report I identified very similar to this prior to your submission. The problem with that particular project was very clear to me and something that I personally discussed openly with our Product Managers when we updated the ProChannel to auto-enable from the VS-700C. The point is, we are paying attention, but I don't understand why I can't reproduce the issues you are experiencing. I'm not even sure the state of your SONAR installation because you have mentioned uninstalling ProChannel modules and have recommended this to other users. It's very difficult to keep track of this on the forums. If this issue is very easily repeatable by other users, then I would love for any one and everyone one of them to prove me wrong by providing me with a recipe that clearly demonstrates that ProChannel randomly turns on and off. I'm not trying to be difficult for you or anyone else. If anything, I'm trying to open the lines of communication because I feel like we're not on the same page regarding this particular issue.
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