Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]

This is and always has been a user forum. We have publicly announced countless times that we do not provide official support on the forums and that the only way to be sure we know about issues is to notify us directly.

Why do we take this stance? Here are a few reasons:

- because people pirate SONAR
- because people modify SONAR
- because people install SONAR on unsupported platforms
- because on the forums we have no way of knowing if people have done any of the above
- because it is not an efficient way for us to support our customers
- because things get taken out of context
- because we have people reaching out directly to us via phones and emails

Dealing with us directly allows us to get past the above problems.

We offer free phone support for 2 years on all products, and free email support for life. Our Technical Support staff is VERY passionate about working with our software and we are all musicians as well.

I don't think it is fair to assume that we aren't paying attention and that our Tech Support staff doesn't take things seriously.

I always wondered why more people don't use the official trouble reporter. Maybe it's because they used hacked software and are afraid to send in their projects for fear of getting caught? I don't know. All I can say is I feel like I'm being come down on because apparently I'm the only one taking the time to make video's and document the problems with the Pro Channel and send them in. Oh the irony.

Bub, I personally looked into your problem report. I could not replicate the behavior you are describing other then with that one particular track. I also tested this project across multiple machines.

I can't either, that's what makes this problem so hard to document and troubleshoot.

I actually attached your report to a report I identified very similar to this prior to your submission. The problem with that particular project was very clear to me and something that I personally discussed openly with our Product Managers when we updated the ProChannel to auto-enable from the VS-700C.

The point is, we are paying attention, but I don't understand why I can't reproduce the issues you are experiencing. I'm not even sure the state of your SONAR installation because you have mentioned uninstalling ProChannel modules and have recommended this to other users. It's very difficult to keep track of this on the forums.

I tried to go back in and add that it was doing it on tracks without envelopes and add some other comments on the trouble report but it was locked and I couldn't.

If this issue is very easily repeatable by other users, then I would love for any one and everyone one of them to prove me wrong by providing me with a recipe that clearly demonstrates that ProChannel randomly turns on and off.

It's not easily repeatable ... hence the random part.

I'm not trying to be difficult for you or anyone else. If anything, I'm trying to open the lines of communication because I feel like we're not on the same page regarding this particular issue.

I completely understand why you don't want to check the forums, but sometimes you have to step outside of the box.

Please, everyone in the below link if you're reading this ... go in today and submit a trouble report on everything mentioned there. It's the only way anything is going to change ...

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2335620

Pro Audio9 ->Sonar 2->Sonar 5->Sonar X1. 

The only reason I upgraded to X1 was because 5.2 would not run on my new 64 bit Win7 machine.  But I'm glad I did as I like X1 thus far.

Ive sworn by Cake forever it feels like. Damn near had to put on gloves in the Sonar vs Pro-Tools battles. Ive brought them so many new customers after they've heard my mixes using Sonar, but after the frustrations and embarrassments that have come with X1 i wont just shell out money to them for every new version anymore. Ive had so many random crashes and crazy stuff happen in front of customers and during sessions, that i don't even recommend it anymore. I'm not abandoning it cause i paid for it but ive had to go back to FL Studio to make beats because it just works. If I open Slice X VSTi in Sonar it will crash every time i try to save a project. Sonar has no way to chop samples so again its forced me to go back. Even in dealing with audio only projects i get tons of random crashes. I was trying to show my son the ropes the other day with a audio only project i was working on, and i may have clicked something to fast and BAM, The WSOD. I know a little about pc's and have had no probs with 8.5 on this machine but i just don't have the time to play beta tester, i have music to make. So until Cake can work out the kinks my acct is frozen. I don't have the time or desire to learn another DAW, i just want my favorite DAW to work. Also they really should take a look at BPM and Mashine and add some features to Beatscape.

Bub

I always wondered why more people don't use the official trouble reporter.

I think, possibly, it's because Cakewalk seem to acknowledge that there is a problem, alter the status of your report to submitted to development and that's the last you ever hear of it........and it never gets sorted

I've upgraded SONAR the day of release of each new version, including X1, since Pro Audio 6.

I usually migrate all my projects over within a two week period. (Unlike most of you on this forum, I have been working on the same 16 or so projects for the last 15 years. Pathetic, I know.)

I've done this regardless of whether there is actually any feature in the new release that I want to use. Sometimes there is such a feature, but not in recent releases. I pay for the bug fixes and performance improvements.


My projects remain in 8.5.3. I have not migrated them (except for experimentation).
I will not be automatically paying money to Cakewalk for the next release (call it "X2" for now). This is because i do not like the direction they have taken with X1.

Having made my opinions clear via the Cakewalk Feature request form, I will now sit back and see what the future holds, somewhat pessimistically. 

There's plenty of options out there, and I wish Cakewalk well. And maybe X2 will be compelling for me after all. But it's no longer a no-brainer upgrade.

Twigman

Bub

I always wondered why more people don't use the official trouble reporter.

I think, possibly, it's because Cakewalk seem to acknowledge that there is a problem, alter the status of your report to submitted to development and that's the last you ever hear of it........and it never gets sorted

This is not the case. You are referencing an issue that was fixed, and a new bug was created as a result of it. Two different issues, two different reports, two different statuses. Once again, taking a single report out of context does not make much sense. I'm sorry that your issue has not been resolved but that is another time and another place.

Many people fill out the Problem Reporter and it has proven to be an effective tool. Discouraging anyone from using it does not help anyone out. Taking the time to send us detailed reports is absolutely appreciated. Sometimes we know about the issues already, and sometimes we do not. The point is, if you send it to us, we're going to investigate it further.

I don't understand why anyone is offended with me trying to clarify what issues we are aware of, and what issues we are not aware of. Do not confuse me asking for more information with me denying a problem exists. Please do not take anything I say personally. All I am trying to say is "Yes, we identified a specific issue but the reports of other issues via the forums are unclear to us at this time".

I'm just trying to clarify for everyone that we do have confirmation of an issue identified by Bub in regards to ProChannel turning on when reading automation that we can explain. Bub captured this in action here. It's hard to see from the video, but this was caused by an automation envelope assigned to "Track Compressor Output". I can explain to you what is happening here, I can replicate it, and as a result we can hopefully have this fixed. It can be avoided by either not assigning envelopes to an inactive PC module, or by turning the PC module back off.

I guess ultimately if anyone experiences any issues with ProChannel randomly turning on, check and see if any envelopes are automating its parameters. If no envelopes are present and ProChannel randomly pops on, I encourage you to fill out the Problem Report, call us, email us, Private Message me, whatever. I am absolutely on everyone's side with this. I'm not a fan of bugs either and if you all are seeing something I'm missing, I will be more then happy to do the leg work for you to get it reported to the right people.

The point is, the above behavior in that screencast can be explained. Anything outside of that bug above in regards to ProChannel randomly turning on, I cannot personally replicate yet and I am asking the community to help me understand.

Either people are experiencing the bug above as well, they are confused about auto-enable and how it is supposed to work, or there is another very, very rare bug that we need to get to the bottom of and that can only be done by clarifying that it is indeed a different issue then the one described above.

Thanks everyone.

I started with Sonar 4 LE. It was a free addition with the sound card I bought (E-MU 0404 PCI). Ableton 6 light and Cubase (not sure what version) where on that disk also. I tried all of them, and found Sonar the best fitting my needs.

I kept using this version until I stumbled upon a nice priced version of Sonar 6 home XL. I have used this version for a while, and liked it enough that I began thinking about buying a more enhanced version. As the full Producer version was a bit too expensive for me, I decided to buy Sonar 8 Studio. I was just in time to get 8.5 in stead of 8.0 (in fact - it was when the box was delivered I noticed it was the 8.5 version). From there it took me about a half year to jump to Sonar 8.5 Producer.

When I saw the 8.5 to X1 would cost me just € 99,- I ordered the box. I have never regretted this buy one moment. For me -although I liked Sonar 4,6,8.5- the interface of X1 just "clicked". In a sense it fitted me like a glove. Very soon Sonar 8.5 was removed from my drive, and the Sonar 8.5 Producer box joined the 6 Home XL and Sonar 8.5 Studio on the "archive" shelf.

I am happy X1 user at this moment. I did not have any problem so far, but I am happy to see X1c will be out soon. This last upgrade even reduces the chance I will walk into a problem in the future.

Will I upgrade if X2 (or whatever it will be called) will be available? Well - if it is worthwhile (if new of improved stuff is in it) and affordable, I will think I do. So far my upgrades turned out to be worthwhile. For someone that started with a self modified synth (Yamaha CS10 - added a ring modulator, bucket echo/delay.. and more) and cutting and joining pieces of tape, programs like Sonar are still a small miracle. Something I could not dream of at the time the pieces of tape where scattered around and  me sitting in the middle of it. Sometimes it is worth to realise this...

When i made that post ryan I wasn't specifically refering to Bub's issue but reporting my experience of using the problem reporter......it's extremely frustating to find that the problem 9whatever it may be) is acknowledged and then it is submitted to development and NOTHING further happens, no further feedback, no patch, NOTHING.....it's discouraging - it makes me feel what's the point? nothing ever gets done about it anyway

Just saying

Another thing that frustrates me about the problem reporter is that unless you write the CWBRN number down when you submit your report or CW email an acknowledgemtn you cannot refer to your submitted report because you need to have the CWBRN number. I filed a report a couple of weeks ago ( a random crash when switching tools in the PRV) with a minidump file and forgot to note the CWBRN - now I cannot follow it up as I received no email from CW

Just saying

I started with Cakewalk Pro 8 Deluxe... back in the days when it was the big kahuna.

After an OS upgrade, the soundcard drivers didn't work so I ended up taking a long break.

Got back in with MC4.... won a copy of MC5 from Cake and have used them for +3 years.

I plan to get X1e shortly.

wetdentist

Going to Musikfest this year? Only a couple days left until the festivities start. :)

http://www.musikfest.org/

 
@ Ryan
 
Hi there Ryan
 
I have a similar problem with the Pro Channel and have just submitted the details, as requested, using the Problem Reporter.
 
Basically, when I'm running in 64bit X1, every time I save a project, close it, and then re-open it, every single instance of the Pro Channel is now switched off. By 'switched off' I mean all the lights are turned out on the Comp, EQ and TubeSat modules that were on when I closed the project.
 
The 'preset' however still appears in the pane.
 
The only way to get back to where I was before is either to re-select the preset, or switch the relevant modules back on.
 
I have a video showing this behaviour which is too large to upload with my report, but I've uploaded it HERE to YOUTUBE if you want to take a look.
 
Many thanks
 
Steve
 
 

Hi Ryan,

 May I call your attention to this:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQljLDGyAqo

 Which has been referred to here:

 http://forum.cakewalk.com...?m=2351742&mpage=1

 
 Is that the circumstance you describe? I must admit; I haven't fully comprehended the exact circumstance you are describing. I remember someone from Cakewalk pointed out that the first time you twist a knob on a hardware controller something happens and that sort of made sense to me.
 
 I can also relate to you that I have observed ProChannel doing things like turning on and off automatically... and I have never had an envelope assigned to ProChannel. I also do not use any hardware controllers other than a mouse and keyboard to change the settings... so I am inclined to think that the activity I observed was not related to the circumstance you describe.

 I'd like to understand more about it either way.

 


 I would also like to relate to the fact that I never, not one single time, received a reply to an email I sent to Cakewalk... but that's OK because I understand how that works.

 I imagine your staff works real hard and does it's very best to do what can be done... which is why it doesn't bother me that no one has ever answered the phone either.

 I have received confirmations and responses via the problem reporter. But I seemingly find *low priority* problems... problems that exist for years and years so it's not a rewarding experience.

 I just point that out as way of explaining why some of us attempt to communicate with, and or secure support from, Cakewalk via the forum.





 
 With regards to the topic of the thread... I wonder if Cakewalk can find any value in having and opportunity to learn of existing customer's first hand opinions regarding their personal upgrade choices.

 It seems like too a good an opportunity to squander on a disagreement with any particular customer.


 As I mentioned earlier... when I send in my yearly upgrade money... I am particularly interested in the bug fixes, and work done to keep the engine running smoothly with the latest hardware and OS. That's what I enjoy paying for. If I can get some of that each year then I can be a happy year in year out customer.  That's just me. The other people are trying to explain what is important to them. It seems like good info.


 Keep up the good work.


 best regards,
mike


edit to add: Yes, I see Steve has made a post about his observation while I was typing this post. :-)

SteveStrummerUK

...
 
I have a video showing this behaviour which is too large to upload with my report, but I've uploaded it HERE to YOUTUBE if you want to take a look.
 
Many thanks
 
Steve\

Hi Steve,

Thanks for sending over the report. I was able to locate it in our database so I'll take a look into this one myself. I'm glad you submitted a project, this makes it easy for us to try to replicate. It's definitely a different issue. Interestingly enough, in your video, the first play through it doesn't look like ProChannel is processing any audio even though it is engaged. The activity meters on the modules aren't lighting up. It looks like the GUI is out of sync with the modules themselves. Perhaps this is why when re-opened they are disengaged?

Either way, I'll look into this more shortly.

mike_mccue


Hi Ryan,

May I call your attention to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQljLDGyAqo

Which has been referred to here:

http://forum.cakewalk.com...?m=2351742&mpage=1

This is why I asked for further clarification. It seems like this issue above was grouped in with the other issue and it was assumed we knew about it. Definitely different problems. If you're confused about how ProChannel auto-engage is supposed to work, it's addressed in the document here. (hard to find I know). Auto-engage should not happen when reading an envelope (the issue I keep referring to).

I would also like to relate to the fact that I never, not one single time, received a reply to an email I sent to Cakewalk... but that's OK because I understand how that works.

If this was, is or ever is the case in the future, let us know. Send myself, Willy Jones, or any other Moderator a private message so we can look into it. I'll admit we've had moments of getting backed up with volume, but if you didn't ever receive a reply that is not in the norm, and it is not how we operate.

With regards to the topic of the thread... I wonder if Cakewalk can find any value in having and opportunity to learn of existing customer's first hand opinions regarding their personal upgrade choices.

Sorry to take the thread off-topic ;)

Thanks to both of you. That description makes good sense.


best,
mike

mike_mccue

I imagine your staff works real hard and does it's very best to do what can be done... which is why it doesn't bother me that no one has ever answered the phone either.

*Jumping in here*

Hey Mike,
 
We have everyone on the phones right now. Currently, our average hold time is at 4 minutes for Technical Support and 1 minute for Customer Service. We're here from 9:30AM to 8:00PM EST M-F and we're closed every day from 2-3PM for lunch.
 
Feel free to give us a call. Someone will definately pick up. If that's not the case please send me a PM and I'll look into it personally.
 
You may have experienced some issues in the past with our old phone system but, we've just recently moved to a better solution.