Bub 
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/07/28 15:38:55
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Bub
Do you folks know something Cakewalk and the rest of us don't? Please enlighten us.
Bump.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/07/28 16:46:22
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Depends on how you use it. If you use it properly it will crash constantly, if you're not using it properly it will be fine. Or something like that........... 
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chilldanny
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/07/28 17:24:03
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As I've said before in other threads stability seems to be system specific.
The only true way of knowing if X1 will be stable is to replace the OS HD
with a brand new one, do a complete fresh install of Windows and X1
and test it. At least this way if there are problems they'll be much easier
to isolate.
Fair enough, not ideal, but a solution none the less.
Another option would be to dual boot.
But I have to say, compared to Logic, X1 is indeed stable! ;D
* Windows10 (x64), Focusrite Safire Pro24, Sonar Platinum (x64) * MacOS High Sierra, Logic Pro X, Ableton Live 9 * Danny M
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sqye
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/07/31 11:33:21
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Great post, Jim. I couldn't agree MORE. People forget how challenging making good recordings has ALWAYS been. That said, I'll probably hold out for X1 until there are more happy users.
For me, the most interesting aspect is Pro Channel. I don't need all the gUI stuff. But if I can't import 8.5.3 projects, then forget it. Cheers, man!
Jim Roseberry
"You shouldn't have to be a computer technician to run a Music production program on a modern up to date PC!" It's an interesting point, this. I'm very sympathetic to this argument, in the sense that "you shouldn't" have to be a computer technician. But the reality is, to some extent, that's currently how it is. You're simply not going to get by all that well on any computer based DAW without being reasonably technically clued in about the platform you're running it.
I can certainly understand the frustration...
But I agree that you have to develope some level of technical proficiency.
No different than getting up-to-speed with any other studio gear (large format console, etc) or other studio skills (learning mic placement, learning how to effectively mix, etc).
Way back in the day, I bought my first PC from a local custom shop.
After a few days, it was quite clear there was no one locally that could help install my two Tahiti audio interfaces... and get the system working. If I was serious about recording on a PC, I was going to have to become my own PC DAW tech. Well... I got the two audio interfaces installed/working, but found out QuadStudio was a total train-wreck.  So I moved on to the original version of S.A.W. and then on to Cakewalk Pro Audio 4.0.
Problem-solving is a major part of working with DAWs, technology in general, and many traditional jobs.
The art of mixing could also be likened to problem-solving.
Recording/mixing is a challanging technical process. Absorbing, working with, and working around technology IMO will always be a major part of what we do. In a perfect world, this wouldn't be necessary... but we live in an imperfect/messy world. Embrace it warts-and-all... and make the best of what it is.
The tools we have today can be frustrating... but they're also capable of amazing results.
When I was a kid, I remember spec'ing out complete recording studios (dreaming of one day owning one). I'd get so frustrated... because the tally for a basic hardware based "Project Studio" was the better part of $100,000. We live in an amazing time... (don't get bogged down in frustration with tools)
Enough psycho-babble from me...
post edited by sqye - 2011/07/31 11:40:09
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37559046@N00/ jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny STUDIO CAT i7 950 : 12GB RAM : Win7x64 : Producer 8.5.3x64 : Komplete 8 : Symphobia : Omnisphere+Trilian+Stylus : BFD2 : RME UFX : Kontrol Rig : Buzz Audio ARC : GT-67 : Mo Tone Custom Tele : Linkwitz Orions : Tyler Acoustics Linbrooks 5.1
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sqye
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/07/31 11:41:24
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FastBikerBoy
Depends on how you use it. If you use it properly it will crash constantly, if you're not using it properly it will be fine. Or something like that...........
Hilarious. .
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37559046@N00/ jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny STUDIO CAT i7 950 : 12GB RAM : Win7x64 : Producer 8.5.3x64 : Komplete 8 : Symphobia : Omnisphere+Trilian+Stylus : BFD2 : RME UFX : Kontrol Rig : Buzz Audio ARC : GT-67 : Mo Tone Custom Tele : Linkwitz Orions : Tyler Acoustics Linbrooks 5.1
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inhouseproducer
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/08/01 00:34:28
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i just upgraded to x1 pro from 8.5 pro and i must say it isn't that stable. the amount of crashes isn't a session killer , but it is bothersome. my system is powered and all optimizations are applied. what is funny is that i am also using another vendors daw and have yet to experience any problems. i don't know what is under the hood with sonar, but something is awry. let me also say that i loooove using sonar and i made countless records with this tool, but this other program makes me fee more like an artist and not an engineer.
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Bub
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/08/01 00:56:36
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inhouseproducer
i just upgraded to x1 pro from 8.5 pro and i must say it isn't that stable. the amount of crashes isn't a session killer , but it is bothersome. my system is powered and all optimizations are applied. what is funny is that i am also using another vendors daw and have yet to experience any problems. i don't know what is under the hood with sonar, but something is awry. let me also say that i loooove using sonar and i made countless records with this tool, but this other program makes me fee more like an artist and not an engineer.
Excellent post. Thank you. Bub
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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inhouseproducer
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/08/04 12:30:17
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@ Bub, :-) i assume that you are experiencing the same thing?!
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affuman
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/08/04 19:47:45
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You shouldn't have to be a computer technician to run a Music production program on a modern up to date PC!
My thoughts exactly. I have not been on this forum for awhile because I haven't needed to...I switched to Ableton on a Mac and haven't looked back.
Some may look at my relatively low number of posts and think "he's not serious", but I've been a Cakewalk user since 2000 with Pro-Audio 9. Due to my work schedule, I made upgrades to my studio in 2010 and went mobile based, using Ableton. The original thought was to do the heavy MIDI lifting and such in SONAR and transfer to Ableton for live work...but you know what? I NEVER have a problem with Ableton, so I just use it for everything.
I travel a great deal, so I essentially have two studios...I take my laptop from Studio A (with a FF800 interface) and plug it into Studio B (with a Presonus Studiolive interface) WITH NO ISSUES! With SONAR, I had to say a prayer with every boot, lost the vibe/song idea while troubleshooting countless times, and have been seriously embarrassed recording my group only to have a crash after the perfect take. With this new setup, I've recorded multiple shows, and have my more progress on original material in a few months than in years with SONAR.
This post contains ten years of frustration...I did not come with an axe to grind, but decided to write the truth after reading this thread. I've defended SONAR constantly for years, but the bottom-line question has always been, "Are you actually producing with it?" For me, the answer was always no, and the root-cause analysis always came to the amount of time spent troubleshooting vs. writing/recording/mixing.
For those who say troubleshooting is part of the business...to me that's akin to asking everybody who owns an automobile to be a certified mechanic. Made sense in 1904, but it's unrealistic nowadays.
Thanks for your indulgence,
-A
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dance_lets@yahoo.com
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/08/07 16:22:19
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John T
You know, you don't have to sit and watch while it downloads. You can go and do something else.
downl LOL But seriously, the download takes a while and the real issue is the multi part installation. Sure, you can do something else while it installs. But you must still check on the PC to answer the installation prompts. And the most annoying is when you come up against incompatibilities - hardware, soundcard drivers, even sometimes video drivers. Curious, what is your total time from upgrade decision, including download, update authorization etc.? And is that when you have no issues? Are you including the bug fixes? My point is that the "cost" of using Sonar, beyond the purchase price, is pretty high in terms of time. Just like the cost of upgrading your PC, or moving to a new PC, is a much higher cost in time than in money. The question often overlooked in these discussions about "should I upgrade" is the time cost. If you've got a stable version of Sonar, the lure of the new features need to be balanced against the TOTAL cost of updating. Cakewalks really annoying habit of requiring each update to be manually downloaded and installed is inconsiderate and unnecessary extra cost for us users.
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John T
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/08/07 16:25:59
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Well... there's never going to be a way of installing it not being a requirement, so I don't quite get that one.
However, downloading isn't a requirement either. You can buy it on disc from Cakewalk or any number of retailers.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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John T
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/08/07 16:31:32
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To answer your question, I've never downloaded it. I buy it boxed from Digital Village in the UK, which has generally offered the best price. So for me, the sequence is something like: order the thing, takes five minutes. Forget about it til it arrives in the post. Then, at some convenient moment, install. Usually takes about an hour to get everything up and running how I like it. Downloading and installing the QuickFixes and patches has been a matter of minutes each time.
post edited by John T - 2011/08/07 16:34:29
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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dance_lets@yahoo.com
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/08/07 17:07:54
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John T
Well... there's never going to be a way of installing it not being a requirement, so I don't quite get that one.
However, downloading isn't a requirement either. You can buy it on disc from Cakewalk or any number of retailers.
Don't get it... I'll try one more time. When you take into account the bugs, having to install updates, having to debug your system and so forth: The install process takes too long. The download takes too long. Having to apply each of the updates in succession is absurd. And you are wrong about downloading not being a requirement, you must register and download the bug fixes. Also, many purchase options require download. To Cakewalk's credit, X1c supposedly does not require users to become aware of and download a sequential list of updates, and apply them in order. (Sure, it's not too difficult for a software engineer but the product should be usable by musicians.) But X1c is not out yet. Hopefully Cakewalk will get the message and make all future updates cumulative. Getting back to the disengenuous straw man fallacy - the issue is not that "Users deserve a program which doesn't require installation". The issue is "Users deserve a program without overly burdensome installation problems".
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John T
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/08/07 17:15:04
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I agree that cumulative updates are a better approach. However, they all have been since the start of the QuickFix programme; they're all cumulative and now the new patch is. So this appears to be an issue that's gone away.
The length of time the download takes is pretty much out of their hands, really. I can't think of anything Cakewalk could do to influence that.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Mystic38
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/08/07 17:18:50
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Thats good news John.. i find watching the washing machine to be much more enjoyable!..:D
My 2c ?
I have had x1 for about a month, installed on a new dedicated PC and its operation has been solid..... certainly not the case on 8.5.3 on an older machine that was for general usage...
Additionally, I am DELIGHTED at the UI improvments..though i am still struggling at times to get the handle on some things (but then i rush into working rather than learning so it serves me right!)
Now, clearly YMMCV so if you use, enjoy and are happy and effective with 8.5.3 stay with it if you wish.. the move to X1 has made things SO much better for me.
John T
You know, you don't have to sit and watch while it downloads. You can go and do something else.
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Skyline_UK
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/08/07 17:20:04
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I get a fair amount of weirdness, those that I can replicate I report to CW. But some are so intermittent I'm sure they'll tell me they can't reproduce so it would be waste of time.
E.g. after working for a while, if I open Preferences all the text on the left showing categories goes big and DOS-like! Also, again it only happens after a while and sometimes not at all, if I open the Inspector and go to change the background and foreground colours of a track or clip, as soon as I click on the coloured bar to open the colour options it locks and shows an odd little black square instead. Both these oddities can be 'cured' by exiting Sonar and reloading but they are nevertheless unnerving and I don't ever recall such things in 8.5.
I'm pinning my hopes on X1c at the moment, as in my case these things might be further manifestations of the Intel AVX issues which I've been told are addressed in X1c.
My stuff Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600 @ 3.4GHz, 4 cores, 8 threads, 16GB RAM.OS & Programs drive: 240GB SSD
Data drives: 1 x 1TB drive RAID mirrored, plus extra 1TB data drive
Windows 10 Home 64 bit
Cakewalk by BandLab 64 bit, Studio One 3, Band In A Box 2016, Ozone 8+ too many other pluginsBandLab page
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Bub
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/08/07 17:42:05
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John T
I agree that cumulative updates are a better approach. However, they all have been since the start of the QuickFix programme; they're all cumulative and now the new patch is. So this appears to be an issue that's gone away.
Actually, QuickFix's aren't considered true patches, and you are not supposed to install them unless you are having specific problems that are addressed by the QuickFix. So really, they haven't done accumulative patches for X1 yet. X1C would be the first. "In an effort to provide these fixes as quickly as possible, QuickFixes receive less testing than a standard patch and are recommended only for users experiencing one of the issues that have been addressed."
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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pathos
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/08/07 18:07:33
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Very stable here, same as 8.5 was.
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/08/07 18:33:25
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I am running 32 bit and 64 bit . I have run into alot less problems under 64 bit as far as crashes goes.. But X64 without out a doubt has many fanthoms. That dont happen in 32.. Just my experience .
. Plus a new Roland interface/ Drivers makes a world of difference for me too. I'm finally getting my setup to good place, New Roland device W7 x64 and an SSD and 8 gigs of ram.
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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Lynn
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Re:How stable is Sonar X1?
2011/08/07 18:34:11
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X1 has been very stable for me since the X1b upgrade. However, I just applied the 255 upgrade, and it has caused nothing but problems so I rolled back to the 246 upgrade and all is well again. This concerns me because the X1c upgrade will contain all the recent quick fixes, so I don't know how useful that will be for me. Overall, I'm quite happy with X1, and I have faith that CW will work out the kinks in the long run.
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