Humanize?

The swing setting in the groove quantize or quantize property menu along with changing velocities.

You cant each drum hit be exactly on beat with the same velocity, so change things up
Cj

Dang, quick responses! Ive been a Sonar User for a few years now and my drums have always sounded stiff, trying to get a little more familiar with the Midi controls. Thanks guys.

"...how to go about Humanizing my midi tracks..."  Play 'em with your digits on a keyboard or control surface, fix up bad timings in Piano Roll View, and if you gotta quantize, just don't do it to 100%.

"Humanizing" works best when some actual, imperfect Human input is actually behind the track in the first place.  I'm not a drummer, but I can bang some drums out on my keyboard.

And it's not just the velocities which control the pulse of a beat, via louder and softer hits, it's also when when the notes come in, probably a bit more rushed in the chorus, maybe late a bit during a verse - it's the placement on a measure's grid also.

Randy B.

One of the most versatile automatic ways is to use Franks midi Plugins.
 
http://www.midi-plugins.de/

Heh, most useful forum ever.

The thing to remember is that you can accomplish a resonably good sounding drum track, and that it is not an impossibility using the tools available. If the rhythm track sounds a bit stiff, then swing it a small percentage, but don't process the whole track. Instead think about the song, and the best way to emphasize the various parts, and then apply swing to specific clips. Also think about the dynamics of the song, and perhaps in certain spots it is not the timing that is crucial, but maybe the accents, or an overall velocity increase to add some excitement.
 
Isn't that what a good drummer does? He/she might add a little feel to the parts that need it, play louder just before the chorus, slow down a bit during the solo. There might be some parts of the song that need a straight beat, and others that wake up when it swings. There are multiple techniques available, and as the composer (performer-producer) selectively applying them to add impact, emphasis, and emotion, in service of the song, is the driving concept. A successful production really is in the details, and if you have control over them and apply good taste it will be noticed.
 
Paul

Hello all,
 
So you get some perspective...a little about me:  I have been playing the drums for 29 years.  I have a BFA in Music Ed., so I have studied music theory, history, form and analysis, counterpoint, orchestration, blah, blah, blah.  I also play, but am nowhere near as good on, bass, guitar and keyboard.  I put out an album a few years back with me doing everything...writing, playing, singing (if you can call it that), recording, mixing, blah, blah, blah.  I have recorded, mixed and co-produced a few albums for others.   and most importantly...I LOVE MUSIC!
 
First off, I believe drums are a "support" instrument.  A good drummer, or drum programmer, will listen to what everyone else is doing and try to support it, through a complimentary groove, or accent it, with fills and, well, accents.  With this in mind, I like for the drums to go down last.  I'll lay down a basic drum machine beat, like kick on 1 and 3, snare on 2 and 4, and HH or ride playing the subdivisions; eighths, sixteenths, triplets, etc.  Once everyone else is down, now you can listen for things you want to compliment or accent with the drums.  If the situation is a rehearsed band, then the best choice is let them play all the rhythm tracks together and then dub in vocals and solos.
 
Second, the biggest turn offs with programmed drums are as follows:
 
Dynamics.  Not every hit on every drum and cymbal should be the same volume.  There needs to be dynamics.  For example,when programming a HH pattern in 1/8 notes, make 1,2,3, and 4 a little louder than the “ands”. In a 1/16 note tom fill, some hits should be louder than others, something musical and rhythmic. Samples.  I like to have 3 or 4 slightly (very slightly) different samples for each sound and then program them randomly so you don’t hear the same exact closed HH sound 8 or 16 times per measure.  This is very subtle but makes a huge difference in realism. A drummer with more than 4 limbs.  You can not play a fill on the toms while continuing to play 1/16 notes on the HH.  Imagine what a real drummer would have to do to play what you program. Samples with effects.  I prefer to use completely “dry” samples and then use buses and effects to complete the sound.  The same exact reverb, on the same sample, at the same volume = YUCK!

 
Third, fills.  Fills are something that leads you from one place to another.  From verse to chorus, from a loud section to a softer one, etc.  Let them breath with dynamics, creating tension and release.  Try not to step on anyone else…too much.
 
Lastly, No one will complain if you have a simple drum part.  Listen to a lot of Led Zep.  Even though Bonzo was an awesome drummer, most songs had a great groove with carefully placed fills and was not too busy.  Everyone will complain if it sounds like the drummer is “soloing” over the whole tune.
 
That’s enough for now.  Have fun and remember to LISTEN!

@Rbowser - Yeah I had alot more success using the pads on my Axiom 61 Pads, and it was alot less time consuming that this process, but being in the military I can't carry alot of equipment with me. I have been looking at some 25-key and simple pad setups to fit in my seabag. Ive got a cover im finishing up this weekend and I'll take all of these posts into consideration.

Great info from Butch. I might add that (IMO) an easy way
to decide which drum notes to make louder/lower is to picture
which hand the drummer is using for that particular strike.
For example, a drummer's 'off' hand will naturally strike softer
than his 'on' hand. And the 'off' hand will be less accurate, as well.
So, when I'm programming drums, on a roll I might set the
velocities as such:

Hit 1 ('on' hand): 100
Hit 2 ('off' hand): 85
Hit 3 ('on' hand): 100 (or, maybe 98)
Hit 4 ('off' hand): 90
etc....

Subtle variations like this can make a fill come to life
and eliminate the 'machine gun' effect of having every
hit be at velocity 100.

These plugins are very good as mentioned previously. They are affordable, easy to install and offer lots of options.

http://www.midi-plugins.de/

The same functions are a bit harder to find in Sonar and there are more adjustments inside Franks plugins.

The original post was about loosening up heavily quantised material. I have just finished a job making a whole lot of midi files sound good for a tribute show. I switched the sounds over from TTS 1 to very good sounding instruments both external and internal. I used Session Drummer 3 to do the drums and was very happy with the results. Except for the stiffness of the quantised drum parts. (no fault of Sonar or Session Drummer of course)

Frank's Humanize plugin does a lot to help this situiation. Firstly it is possible for computer generated randomness to be very human and musical. You just need to work out some parameters and set them accordingly. This plugin is not as simple as it looks. You must download the manual which is quite good and digest what it says about this.

I elected to adjust timing and velocity randomly. (there are other things that can be randomised too) As Butch points out both of these are necessary. I definately agree.  This can apply to a whole drum track but if you want to spilt a drum part into separate tracks for drum sounds then each of these plugins can be used on these tracks for greater control.

Timing will encompass an area either side of the actual beat. I found that 7 to 8 milliseconds either side can be good. Also the plugin does not necessarily place timing equally anywhere between say -8 and = 8 milliseconds. You can also tell the plugin to put a greater percentage of timing hits tighter in, say -3 to =3 for a different feel. Also there is a tendancy setting which allows you to specify if you want most hits ahead of the beat, or right on, or a bit after as well. This is very cool. I found settings which made the grooves absolutely swing like hell. Taking the settings too far can sound like a drummer having a bad day on too much drink!

If you get the opportunity, record a great drummer to a click and see what the variations in timing really are.  Also don't forget you can also record a great drummer, extract the groove and apply that to existing stiff midi drum parts. That can be done right now inside 8.5 Producer. I have done a bit of this but it is just slower compared to inserting a Frank plugin, tweaking up and sitting back and having a good listen. I had to get through quite a lot of material quickly.

The velocity randomness often works a treat as well. I found that many kicks with Session Drummer 3 responded very well in terms of level and sound quality to velocity variations. This setting can also get overdone then some notes just start jumping out too much, but back it off to very subtle lavel varations and you are away, it just sounds so natural. Every kick level from a live drummer would not be exactly the same. (Close though for a good drummer)

Glyn Barnes


One of the most versatile automatic ways is to use Franks midi Plugins.
 
http://www.midi-plugins.de/

+1 -I have been using franks midi plugs for many, many years. I( secon hat choice. Great midi plugs in the bundle-extremely inexpensive too!

Randy I am someone that does not use Cal Scripts so much. They seem a harder way to go about the same job. Do Cal scripts offer as much adjustment and control over midi data as does Franks Plug Ins. I tried achieving the same thing with Sonar and found it harder to do.

They are not all that expensive and yes the others may be doable in Cal srcipt mode. I think the Humanize plugin is one of the more interesting and complex plugins in the Frank range. It is probably worth the money alone.

The good thing about that plugin too is that you can very easily alter settings and listen almost in real time. Also you can create presets easily and reload them for even quicker setups. I found myself tweaking ranges for timing and velocity from song to song just to make sure there were more variations between songs etc.

Thanks, Bill "wst3" and Jeff for more info on the FrankPlugins.  I'm not into scripting and "rolling my own," so I do rely once in awhile on a CAL routine.  Frank's sound more sophisticated, I should look into them.  So thanks for bringing them up.

Randy B.

I guess you guys are talking about writing your own cals because I have downloaded (over the years) every cal I could find and none will do what Franks Midi plugs do. Combined some will, Humanize is a good example. You cannot do that with one Cal (unless you write it yourself) Or I really missed that cal download. I am a computer tech (used to be) but not a programmer and I don't dabble in any of the languages. I find Franks midi plugs to be far superior to the existing cals-actually RB's term "sophisticated" is even better. 
That's just me. If I could write my own I would. do I want to learn-Nope, I'd rather but Franks plugs(as I did about 10 years ago) and go about writing music and playing my guitar.And of course recording.
\Pretty sure you can download them and try them out for free-use to be anyway
 
Please tell me which cal can do what the Humanize plug in FMP can do? Sorry I don't see it.

stratman70
 
Please tell me which cal can do what the Humanize plug in FMP can do? Sorry I don't see it.

You miss the point. It's not whether a CAL script can do what that plug in provides. There is no standard for humanize, no framework for what is good and what is bad. Humanize at best can be defined as trying to make a midi track sound like it was really played by a human. If you like what a CAL does, you're done. If you like tweaking each note and getting favorable results, you're done. If you like using your plug in, you're done. I would not want to take a guess at what is and what isn't proper humanization. The shortest route to getting results you are pleased with, is good.