I Believe/vocal Re-track/re-mix/etc

I listened on both headphones and my monitors. In both cases when comparing version 2 and version 3, my ears were telling me that both the vocals and guitar on V2 sounded better (or maybe just fit better) than V3. Now, don't get me wrong, the vocals on V3 sound really nice, but it seems like they don't have the same feeling as V2. They sound dryer I think and not as intimate as V2. Also, the guitar on V3 to me sticks out too much, I don't think the effects on it fit as well as they did in V2. My opinion is that if you took the guitar and vocals from V2 and put them into V3, it would sound better then either version. It just seems to me that although the sound of the guitar/vocals are good on V3, they are not fitting as well as they did with V2. The acoustic guitar in V3 seems to be lost a bit more in the mix than V2.

Hopefully that helps. I listened to both several times. If not for having something to compare it too, I would say V3 sounds great how it is aside from maybe the guitar sound not quite fitting IMO. It just seems that overall; something was lost compared to V2.

I will admit, this is tough to judge when both sound so good. I can easily see how mixers/masters/producers (hopefully correct terms) can spend hours refining changes at this point of the process. After many listens, I found myself starting to question my initial instincts on what I thought.

just love your voice man, the opening harmony,Mmm, very Ian Matthews'ish.
I do agree with chad that the vocals sound drier, but hey i find that suits your voice better, much more crisper IMO.
Good song although i feel it's strength lies in the harmonies which get weaker through the song again IMO.

really did enjoy the listen.

Dave.

I think too often the reviews that come through this forum focus more on the production than the quality of the songwriting. So... allow me to address these issues separately:

Songwriting

Lyrically, very nice. I would like to get a good read-through of the lyrics, but basically what I heard was solid IMO. As to the arrangement, which I'm going to lump under this category, there were a couple of things that I might have done differently, but take that for what it's worth. You have a real anthem-thing going on (conceptually) with "I Believe", but the fact that the song is largely minor, I felt that the "I Believe" lost some conviction, particularly following the "My Lord..." section that is shifted more towards the major. In particular, listen to around 1:25; The first "I Believe" doesn't really "sell the point". It's the right words, but not necessarily the right energy to match the message. It got more intense towards the end, but I'd try to work a contra line instead of going down the scale on "I believe" all the time to try to give that section more of a convicting lift.

Production

Everything sounds independent, like each of the instruments are still separate and haven't really gelled in the mix. The vocal could benefit from some kind of treatment, maybe a light verb frosting or delay to make it sit in there better. I really liked the harmonies, but they were a bit too distinct for my own tastes. (Again, take that for what it's worth.)

I'm not sure if this falls under the category of production or arrangement, but the energy really didn't go anywhere in the song. I liked the guitar work, but everything is coming through at about the same intensity. I'd personally work the anthem angle and get this thing BIG in the middle. (Again, for whatever that's worth.)

Summary

Obviously, I like the song. Listened several times. Haven't listened to the earlier versions, but then again I was more interested in the lyrics than the production anyway.

Oh dude, please don't take my comments as any sort of personal indictment. My comments were from an opinion of the sonic vision that the song was designed to project. Of course, being your song and your heart I can only work from this perspective, not knowing the full story.

I followed the lyrics, but like I said it would have been good to have them all written out to pore over more carefully. Good stuff!

I should say that your song haunted me last night, and I spent a few hours thinking about how you might keep that first "I believe" in the current spirit. What of this: What if the first chorus was more of a "do I believe", the second "can I believe", and the final "YES, I believe!". ?? This would then support more of a resolution as the song progresses, which goes from depression to hope. (Frankly, I like songs that end hopeful vs. depressing; life itself can be depressing enough without getting that from music as well.)

As to giving things "too much space", that's a matter of interpretation. Some like all that separation, I prefer to taste the sandwich rather than the peanut butter AND the jelly, if that makes sense.

You said this is not intended to be a "Sunday Church song", and hey, that's fine -- plenty of those. But from one Christian songwriter to another, there's a bigger opportunity in our songs to offer some sort of connection to those who will go through the experiences that we've been blessed/cursed with. So today the song may be something personal only to you, but I only ask you to consider the greater scheme of how God can use the tool to positively affect the lives of others and then with that perspective, ROCK THEIR WORLD.

Updated: V3

Those full, rich and lush strings in "I Believe" reminded me of Aaron Copeland's music. (This is a compliment!) I believe that your music is blessing to God and a to lot of His children, as well. Take care.

Chuck A.

Halfway through I realized I'd listened before, real nice!

Had to listen to In the Beginning, really nice orchestral piece, reminded me of Mannheim Steamroller, if I spelled that right...

Those full, rich and lush strings in "I Believe" reminded me of Aaron Copeland's music. (This is a compliment!) I believe that your music is blessing to God and a to lot of His children, as well. Take care.

Thanks and God Bless Chuck!

got my email?

Thanks for listening again Bill!

Had to listen to In the Beginning, really nice orchestral piece, reminded me of Mannheim Steamroller, if I spelled that right

Um...?..Don't know that one!

ORIGINAL: sfripp

4. Might be time to see what Mitch can do!

Didn't see that until after I posted. If you need me to give this a shot, just say the word and I'm in. I certainly owe you for the killer lyrics you provided for me on I Need You and All I Ever Wanted. Let me know bro.
Mitch

Hi Shaun

just read the post
cant hear now....but

its not an overkill to have TUBE PRE with TUBE MIC......
just wondeering....

anyway i wish i had both!!!!!

Greets
ROlo.

Hey Shaun,

I really like this tune and it's message. The vocals are very well done. Excellent harmonies! It sounds like the NTK/737 combination work worked out great. No reason for it not to.

From a mixing standpoint..... I am sure that everyone knows this about me by now.... I just have a difficult time with solo instruments being placed right up the middle when there is a main vox involved. I DO like the sound of the gtr in the Intro, though.

From an arrangment standpoint..... I think the drums are fine during the verses, but do not really work in the Chorus and gtr solo. They are too busy for my taste. Again...."for my taste". The toms are also too wide in the mix for me as well. And the ride is just too busy throughout the Chorus and gtr solo as well, IMO. I would suggest using an eighth note pattern to give it a more laid-back feel. It will also work better with the rhythm gtr track that way and will carry the section much better as well.

The introduction of the flute-like instrument at the 4:12 mark would work better on the other side, since you have already introduced the lead gtr & solo in that spot already. It will better for the mix balance, IMO.

One more thing..... I am feeling a tambourine would work nicely as well, in the appropriate places; that being, the gtr solo and last chorus.

Overall.... I think you are doing a good job on the mixing end as well. Outside of what I already mentioned above, it is coming along quite nicely! It is not quite there yet, IMO, but it is close to it. It does deserve for now, though.

BTW Shaun.... Would you please send your email address to me via my email studio email. I have a personal question that I do not want to post here. Just use the Customer Service link found here . Thanks.

Well..... that is all I have to say. I am done now.

Now forgive me if these seems like a newbie question but are you using a real bass or is it a synth? (While I think it's real, I would like it to be a synth so I could get that sound

G'day Leee

Sorry! Real bass! Spectre neck-through plugged through the Avalon. First time I've tried this particular set-up...Quite lush I thought!

Hi Chaz

I really like this tune and it's message. The vocals are very well done. Excellent harmonies! It sounds like the NTK/737 combination work worked out great. No reason for it not to.

I was pleased! Wasn't sure whether I had chopped too much of the top end of the vox on the way in though?

I just have a difficult time with solo instruments being placed right up the middle when there is a main vox involved.

That's cool I'll pan it a bit harder to the right and see if I can understand where your coming from.

I think the drums are fine during the verses, but do not really work in the Chorus and gtr solo. They are too busy for my taste. Again...."for my taste". The toms are also too wide in the mix for me as well. And the ride is just too busy throughout the Chorus and gtr solo as well, IMO. I would suggest using an eighth note pattern to give it a more laid-back feel. It will also work better with the rhythm gtr track that way and will carry the section much better as well.

this is good I wasn't particularly happy with the drum arrangment or sound...I've got BFD on the way so I'll spend some time on the drums for sure.

BTW Shaun.... Would you please send your email address to me

Done