jb101
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 19:41:38
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soens I believe I answered this a while ago. There is only one graphic for both track types, which can cause confusion when one doesn't read the help files. The confusion could be reduced by creating a different graphic for MIDI tracks, but for all we know that might not be so easy. It might involve more research and development to implement. The other point of confusion is that the "Gain" isn't really gain anyway - as one might expect on a real mixer. It's more of a pre-mix fader. The real gain is controlled by your interface/sound source output.
S.I.T. = Simple Instrument Track. The pros and cons of these tracks have been discussed ad ivfinitum/ad nauseam. Cakewalk has documented their idiosyncrasies clearly. I am happy with the way these work. If I were not, I would split the tracks, and use a separate Audio and MIDI track. They can be useful - some people use them when sketching out ideas, and then split them for detailed editing/mixing. Some never use them. Some use them and live with their Simple functions.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 19:57:43
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 20:21:37
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Just because it is a SIMPLE instrument track doesnt mean we should have dials that really aren't functional. Who needs a velocity trim dial? It's just stupid. A Gain knob on EVERY track, audio and softsynth SHOULD be there. Like i said - what if you want to gain stage properly but leave your synth track as midi? Why should I have to split my tracks when the GAIN knob COULD just actually - you know - CONTROL THE GAIN! What is more functional? a Velocity trim or gain dial there?
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John
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 20:33:07
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☄ Helpfulby karhide 2015/05/22 01:18:48
I wonder if anyone is gaining by any of this?
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Ibanez Laney
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 20:36:24
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Is this really worth complaining about?
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...wicked
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 20:38:39
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☄ Helpfulby karhide 2015/05/22 01:19:09
*eyeroll* So, congrats, you found a typo. What do you want, a parade? Your victory lap is a little overlong. Especially since workarounds are abound. Plus, if you've used SONAR for any length of time you'll find split tracks are way more versatile than instruments tracks. I suggest you collect your "no prize" (for you comic geeks out there) and move along.
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brundlefly
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 20:42:34
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John I wonder if anyone is gaining by any of this?
No, but my velocity is seriously offset.
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brundlefly
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 20:51:53
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alewgro A Gain knob on EVERY track, audio and softsynth SHOULD be there. Like i said - what if you want to gain stage properly but leave your synth track as midi?
No, thanks. I'd rather use MIDI Volume if I want more or less amplitude out of the synth, and still have Velocity Offset handy for when I want the instrument played harder or softer, not just sounding louder or softer. I often use Vel+ on MIDI and instrument tracks; I can't remember the last time I used audio gain on a synth track.
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 20:53:56
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Ibanez Laney Is this really worth complaining about?
EVERYTHING is worth stating - sure. Just because it's not the #1 most critical thing in the world doesn't mean we can make a complaint. That would be weird logic.
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 20:58:12
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brundlefly
alewgro A Gain knob on EVERY track, audio and softsynth SHOULD be there. Like i said - what if you want to gain stage properly but leave your synth track as midi?
No, thanks. I'd rather use MIDI Volume if I want more or less amplitude out of the synth, and still have Velocity Offset handy for when I want the instrument played harder or softer, not just sounding louder or softer. I often use Vel+ on MIDI and instrument tracks; I can't remember the last time I used audio gain on a synth track.
So you would rather go into your VST every time and turn down the volume in there instead of just turning down the "Gain" knob already visible? Velocity doesn't even mean velocity much when it comes to synths. Depending on what the velocity is modulation, it can change the total tonal character of a sound. It's like having an random MIDI CC# dial up there. It just doesn't make much sense.
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Anderton
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 20:59:03
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When I want less of something, I move a knob or fader one way. When I want more of something, I move it the other way. It's like flying a plane - when the houses get bigger, you pull back on the throttle. When the houses get smaller, you move it forward
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BobF
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 21:01:56
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brundlefly
John I wonder if anyone is gaining by any of this?
No, but my velocity is seriously offset.
I think somebody's pitchwheel got bound to echo
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 21:10:33
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John
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 21:13:59
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I think the OP is right. Though I'm sure CW knows the meaning of gain. I never encounter this problem because I don't use simple instrument tracks. It makes perfect sense that a knob labeled gain would control the audio gain on a track. It has no meaning in MIDI. Velocity is not gain.
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scook
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 21:18:12
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The knob has the same label on all tracks including MIDI. If the print were larger it might make a difference to me but I doubt it.
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komposer
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 23:01:05
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☄ Helpfulby dcumpian 2015/05/21 08:20:01
Just remove Simple Instrument Track as an option. I have no idea why anybody would use a SIT. YMMV but I don't think there is any real-world use for something that combines two completely separate functions into one that doesn't serve either. If everyone can't stand seeing two tracks just add a "+" sign to expand it to two and add an option to have that default behavior or not. Geeze.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 23:05:24
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I think simple instrument tracks would be brilliant with an audio/midi toggle. The functionality just isn't complete enough for it to be useful enough. It's a great idea just not fully developed
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mettelus
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 23:14:20
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SITs have their use when a it meets the criteria for which it was designed. I do use them where a MIDI track drives a synth without a MIDI through (bass usage is most common for me).
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John
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 23:33:22
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Doktor Avalanche I think simple instrument tracks would be brilliant with an audio/midi toggle. The functionality just isn't complete enough for it to be useful enough. It's a great idea just not fully developed
That sounds like a great idea.
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konradh
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 23:39:19
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Actually, the bug report confused me. I would expect the GAIN knob to increase the difference between input and output audio (which is gain as opposed to volume). I would not expect it to have any meaning for MIDI. Isn't that how it works now? EDIT: OK, I think the OP is saying the same thing I say above: it's just that the bug report is confusing to me. Maybe Cakewalk misunderstood. In any case, this doesn't bother me.
post edited by konradh - 2015/05/20 23:47:43
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/20 23:47:25
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Well the issue is crystal clear. However the sheer number of people posting here with their differing opinions makes me feel that something should be done about this and soon even if it means just fixing the actual bug (wrong label). Enhancing the instrument track is the ultimate answer though.
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Kamikaze
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/21 03:53:44
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☄ Helpfulby BobF 2015/05/21 07:42:45
It's mislabelled. Velocity effects more than volume on anything but the crappiest of synths, it generally effects tone and shape, linked to volume, filters, release etc. If it was controlling midi volume, it would be more accurately named 'gain' than controlling velocity. If it serves a purpose controlling velocity offset, call it that. Lazy response from cake.
post edited by Kamikaze - 2015/05/21 11:05:16
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Kamikaze
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/21 04:00:34
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Aharvey
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/21 04:33:14
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I have always used the output gain knob on the soft synth itself.Since that is how I do it with all my hardware units.That is why it is there on the soft synth in the first place.
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interpolated
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/21 06:23:55
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post edited by interpolated - 2015/05/21 16:08:25
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subtlearts
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/21 06:36:34
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brundlefly ... I think a Simple Instrument track should have Audio Gain on the audio tab in the Inspector, and MIDI Gain on the MIDI tab, but it has MIDI Gain on both.
I agree with this. I was checking this very thing out the other day - before reading this thread - and basically found the control useless as it is - what appears to be a numerical - as opposed to proportional - MIDI velocity offset. Turn it down low enough and the lowest-velocity notes in the track stop sounding at all, as they have an effective velocity of zero. How is that useful? Unless I'm wrong, but that's how it seems to me. And instrument track is a combination of a hidden MIDI track and a hidden audio track. I would prefer to see the Gain knob be an input gain for the audio track, rather than a MIDI offset for the MIDI track. If an input MIDI offset is implemented in the MIDI tab, that would make sense, but not in the Audio tab.
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FCCfirstclass
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/21 10:00:22
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Just remember: You do not increase "gain", you actually reduce the loss of the fader.
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AT
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/21 10:25:53
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☄ Helpfulby jb101 2015/05/21 19:10:26
Well, that does it. This means I con't use SONAR at all. Gain, Volume and Velocity? I'm so confused. Not only that, I think I'll delete all my files since my old songs aren't labeled properly. Thanks guys (and girls!). @
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mudgel
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/21 10:29:43
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Well in that case there's only one thing left to do!
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means....
2015/05/21 10:56:25
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AT Well, that does it. This means I con't use SONAR at all. Gain, Volume and Velocity? I'm so confused. Not only that, I think I'll delete all my files since my old songs aren't labeled properly. Thanks guys (and girls!). @
what a stupid post. Are you saying that unless something is of utmost urgency we cant post about it? I never claimed that this was a HUGE deal, did I? I just think its poor customer service to say something is "working as is" but clearly labeled wrong, and on top of that - no thought process is being given to exactly WHAT that knob should do. Right now it is acting as a CC# adjustment knob, which is kinda pointless.
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