subtlearts
I was checking this very thing out the other day - before reading this thread - and basically found the control useless as it is - what appears to be a numerical - as opposed to proportional - MIDI velocity offset. Turn it down low enough and the lowest-velocity notes in the track stop sounding at all, as they have an effective velocity of zero. How is that useful? Unless I'm wrong, but that's how it seems to me.

Yes, Velocity Offset is just a fixed value that's added to the stored value of each event on playback; it doesn't scale them proportionally. Used over a narrow range, it can be useful to quickly add or subtract a small amount of velocity to change the timbre of a synth patch or avoid crossing over to an undesirable velocity-switched sample.
 
It certainly would be more useful in a lot of cases if it scaled values proportionally; I think the fact that it does a simple offset it probably a holdover from ancient sequencer history where an offset was easier to implement and/or developers just hadn't thought to make it proportional. If you changed it now, it would have to be a per-project mode, or it would alter the sound of existing projects that used it. The necessity for backward compatibility is one of the things that keeps stuff like this from evolving.

That's IT!!!! That's IT!!!!! REALLY I'VE HAD ENOUGH!!!! IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD!!!!
 
ARGHHHHHH!!!!
 
I'm going back to using tape recorder ! 

my understanding of the "gain" control in sonar is it allows for the adjustment of the fader without having to rewrite you fader automation. sort of a pre-fader fader control. it does not behave as a gain control only your pre-amp on your audio card can function that way. 

John
I think AT and Brundlefly have a point. The OP has made his point now all that is left is to contact CW to have this fixed. Posting endlessly will do nothing. 
 

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?
 
EDIT: Previously quoted the wrong post

Sorry John, flicked between screen and quoted the wrong post
 
Was meant to be replying to this
 
"I think AT and Brundlefly have a point. The OP has made his point now all that is left is to contact CW to have this fixed. Posting endlessly will do nothing. "

Another ridiculous thread.
 
Gain in the Sonar environment is indeed intended to behave as a virtual "Trim" knob to avoid overloading the virtual signal chain (like the PC/FX bin).
 
The Gain label on MIDI tracks controlling velocity is indeed a little misleading and struck me as odd when first learning the program but aside from the label it is a perfectly functional and useful knob to have on a MIDI track. It takes the concept of Gain and gives it a MIDI equivelent as MIDI is merely data... not audio so velocity is the closest thing to controlling the input. It makes sense. There is NO GAIN IN MIDI!!! ONLY IN AUDIO!!! The audio tracks associated with a MIDI synth all have Gain knobs that control Gain because they are audio tracks.
 
The fact that the SIT strip uses the Gain knob as a Velocity control seems to me to be Cake using the MIDI strip template as the foundation for the SIT. Since this is a combo track intended to provide convenience to the end user the Velocity function is probably more convenient than Gain which can be controlled in more places and more easily in the chain than Velocity.
 
As has been stated the ONLY real issue is that it is labeled Gain instead of Vel. It is documented so anyone who has done a precursory look at the documentation knows this is the case for MIDI and SIT tracks.
 
As has also been stated... if you want that Gain knob to act as a Gain knob you need to move away from the inferior, yet convenient, SIT track format and into the proper MIDI + Audio track format. If you do not want to deal with a slew of audio tracks from a multi output synth then simply use the single stereo output option pretty much all synths have and you'll have essentially the exact same setup as an SIT except with one more track in the Track View but WAY more control over everything. Put them in a folder for quickly removing them from view or use the track manager to hide either one if you do not need to tweak one or the other.
 
Then you can reroute or load a template for full output of all channels at any point.
 
This really REALLY is a non issue and nothing to freak out about in such a manner. There are far more pressing matters at hand and frankly I would MUCH prefer that the Gain knob on MIDI and SITs remains a Vel control. If anything is done it should be a simple change of labelling from Gain to Vel and that's it but even then... it isn't really hurting anything and even those who don't read the documentation should be clued in by the Tooltip that pops up and displays velocity info instead of level info in dB when you adjust it.
 
There seems to be a few posters hell bent on dredging up as many quirks and issues as they can no matter how small. I would be okay with that if they came right out and said "I am on a mission to document all bugs to improve the program" and did it in a productive and respectful manner that helps the software improve and evolve (which is the entire point of the problem reporter and the problem/feature forums). Instead though it's disruptive freak outs, accusations and innuendos day in and day out.
 
Just describe the problem so people can test it or help you solve it and then, if there is indeed a bug report it through the proper channels. If it affects enough people it will likely get looked at. If not... welp, nothing is ever perfect and we all gotta make decisions about what we are and are not willing to tolerate in life. In this case it is a product for sale that is competing with other similar products for sale that may or may not have the solution to your issues.
 
A mislabeled MIDI Velocity control does not seem the type of thing that would make me ragequit a perfectly useable product though. Then again... I may be an idiot.

Fine.

This thread got me all stressed because it made me realize something... none of my guitars have labels on any knobs (seriously... NONE)! How am I supposed to figure them out??? They just "change sound" but nothing to tell me WTH they are doing!

To make matters worse, I mentioned this to a "trusted" friend, and the laughed AT ME (so much for them). They did offer to "try them out and see what they do," yeah right!

I guess I will start simple and put "sugar" and "spice" labels on them and see how that goes.

My house of cards (Uno deck with a couple incomplete pinochle decks thrown in) has come "fluttering down" because of this thread :(

Edit: The forum filter hit was unintentional, but now I can only name every knob "sugar"... Sheesh.

mettelus
This thread got me all stressed because it made me realize something... none of my guitars have labels on any knobs (seriously... NONE)! How am I supposed to figure them out??? They just "change sound" but nothing to tell me WTH they are doing!

To make matters worse, I mentioned this to a "trusted" friend, and the laughed AT ME (so much for them). They did offer to "try them out and see what they do," yeah right!

I guess I will start simple and put "sugar" and "****e" labels on them and see how that goes.

My house of cards (Uno deck with a couple incomplete pinochle decks thrown in) has come "fluttering down" because of this thread :(

Edit: The forum filter hit was unintentional, but now I can only name every knob "sugar"... Sheesh.

at least "knob" got through

AT

alewgro

AT
Well, that does it.  This means I con't use SONAR at all.  Gain, Volume and Velocity?  I'm so confused.  Not only that, I think I'll delete all my files since my old songs aren't labeled properly.  Thanks guys (and girls!).
 
@

what a stupid post.  Are you saying that unless something is of utmost urgency we cant post about it?  I never claimed that this was a HUGE deal, did I?
 
I just think its poor customer service to say something is "working as is" but clearly labeled wrong, and on top of that  - no thought process is being given to exactly WHAT that knob should do.

Right now it is acting as a CC# adjustment knob, which is kinda pointless.

 
No, carry on.  Up to 3 pages now and no biggie; in fact a pointless problem according to your own statements.  But don't let it go and carry on with your uber-intelligent posts.  It is just fascinating. 
 
cordially,
 
@
 
 
 

 
 
i didnt write 3 pages... i wrote 1 sentence... the rest is all responses...
 
this is the Howard Stern syndrome... this thread is popular because people love to hate on others - if no one got their rocks off here, no one would be posting here.

alewgro

AT

alewgro

AT
Well, that does it.  This means I con't use SONAR at all.  Gain, Volume and Velocity?  I'm so confused.  Not only that, I think I'll delete all my files since my old songs aren't labeled properly.  Thanks guys (and girls!).
 
@

what a stupid post.  Are you saying that unless something is of utmost urgency we cant post about it?  I never claimed that this was a HUGE deal, did I?
 
I just think its poor customer service to say something is "working as is" but clearly labeled wrong, and on top of that  - no thought process is being given to exactly WHAT that knob should do.

Right now it is acting as a CC# adjustment knob, which is kinda pointless.

 
No, carry on.  Up to 3 pages now and no biggie; in fact a pointless problem according to your own statements.  But don't let it go and carry on with your uber-intelligent posts.  It is just fascinating. 
 
cordially,
 
@
 
 
 

 
 
i didnt write 3 pages... i wrote 1 sentence... the rest is all responses...
 
this is the Howard Stern syndrome... this thread is popular because people love to hate on others - if no one got their rocks off here, no one would be posting here.

"It wasn't me sir. It was the other boy what did it".
 
Aren't you a good boy then.

mudgel


"It wasn't me sir. It was the other boy what did it".
 
Aren't you a good boy then.

 
That's quite condescending Mudgel. Serves no purpose other than to aggravate. I don't think you'd respond well to a comment like that aimed at you.

I do think the knob could serve a better function than velocity trim, but I don't think there's enough interest to have it changed to anything else. Simply renaming it, is such a simple fix