jm24
 waste at least 10% of the screen space the zoom functions should work properly.
 
(The command/ribbon uses nearly 4 times the space of the 8.5.3 button bar. And is majorly cluttered: Clutter::  a large amount of things that are not arranged in a neat or orderly way : a crowded or disordered collection of things.  To display the most important buttons on the command/ribbon requires showing 3 times as many not-needed cluttering buttons.)

I agree with the "clutter" and wasted space comments.
It would be nice if there was a large (they're large now) medium and small option for the modules in that top bar and the bar would shrink to the size of the modules.

If I could wrap X3 in the Sonar 4 GUI but keep the multi dock, browser and PRV controller lanes I'd be totally satisfied.
 
 

Guitarpima
Why don't just put a button on the toolbar for notes. Just click it and your notes appear when you need to check or addend them.

That's a good idea but honestly if the suggestion is that the minimum Take Lanes height is because people NEED to see the notes section... well that is no reason to restrict height and honestly as a heavy TL notes section user just silly. If I need to see my notes I can drag the lane out. I need my lanes smaller more often than I need to see the notes yet cannot do it because of the restriction.
 
I can't see that as the reason for the restriction though. I think someone just thought it looked cool or something and left it coded that way without thinking and now we are stuck with it until they rewrite that piece of code.
 
But I guess it does technically look cool. It's just silly when trying to work and doesn't seem to serve any other purpose. I'm also not sure why they all need to expand simultaneously when you drag a lane out vertically. I turn Auto Track Zoom off for a reason. I don't want it on lanes.
 
So yeah... I have some problems with lanes functionality but I like lanes so much otherwise that I generally overlook them because they are minor gripes compared to having to deal with Layers or no option to view multiple takes at all.
 
Meh. I think it is still a work in progress. The comping thing this version was a huge step forward and I'd rather have that than these little fiddle faddles fixed. That's just me though.

Steve_Karl
 
Sometimes there really seems no reason at all for restrictions ...
... other than just not checking to see it's as good as it can be.

Example here:
http://forum.cakewalk.com...ew-Names-m3036173.aspx
 

I remember reading that thread and it was a problem I hadn't encountered and therefore never considered and is perfect example of how some things simply do not effect many users but impact others very heavily. I think many of the problems Keni has fall into this category. I've only been with the Cake way for a short time (since X1) so I was already learning everything from scratch (I came from another DAW that honestly in retrospect I never really bother to full learn anyway). I didn't have a long ingrained workflow that got disrupted (well I did but I couldn't very well expect Sonar to work like my old DAW) so it's easier for me to even get accustom to some of the drastic changes from X1 to X2 and now to X3 because IMO most of the changes were massive improvements.
 
So I am certainly sympathetic to the long time users who are used to things being a certain way for a decade or more but cannot fully understand how traumatic it has been for those users.
 
That said it seems the X series revisions for the most part were well intentioned and increased productivity for many and perhaps is a more welcoming environment for new users (I've adapted well and although I get curious about the older versions I think I'd prefer the current way of things). I see a lot of valid points (ignoring many of the truly silly ones) from the older users. Mainly in regards to customization options. There have been many times where I really wished I could get the Control Bar more to my liking or manage my Console Strips the way I like. Both of those sections in particular seem very rigid to me and definitely cost me time while working.
 
The Take Lanes height restrictions really are silly and to me it does feel like it was a great feature that got rushed out the door in X2 and now has caused a bit of "painted ourselves into a corner" type situation from a programming standpoint. I can only guess but this probably had to do with the previous corporate owners pressuring for an innovative release without really funding it or allow enough time for the boys to do their jobs. This became an immediate problem when the old school Layers users started pointing out very real backwards momentum about such things like the lack of a "Delete Empty Lanes/Layers" type option. I personally experienced broken and seemingly useless/redundant MSR buttons and odd recording behavior (in regards to Mute Previous Take) and problems with editing logic.
 
Many of those issues have been seriously corrected with X3 but in ways I personally never would have thought of. I said it initially when I first really starting learning the comping feature... it is like they hired some kind of NASA genius to come in and implement the Comping mode stuff. It totally turfed the basic functionality of the X2 take lanes while keeping it somewhat familiar and operating within the graphical layout provided. I honestly do not do not know how they did it or who conceived it but someone needs a freaking raise for that one.
 
Still the bare bones of lanes need a bit of work in regards to the obvious problem of height restrictions and to me personally how the MSR controls function (again I feel there is redundancy even though functionality has improved and it adds unnecessary confusion to the Lanes concept). Now that the Bakers seem to have their hands untied, have a seemingly renewed vigor, the X series has matured and hopefully will have proper funding and encouragement from their new corporate masters (it certainly cannot hurt that Gibby also hired one of Cake longest standing and most knowledgeable supporters on staff AND are allowing him to hang out here with us) that Lanes will see these oddities and quirks dealt with.
 
There are also forum members like CakeAlex and Jlienx organizing the effort to make sure that problems are reported and cataloged so the Bakers have a more definitive and broad based user input as opposed to scattered problem reports and forum posts or relying on the somewhat narrowly focused input of specific Alpha and Beta testing procedures.
 
aaaaand I probably just typed up a longer than necessary post but I'm nursing a twisted back so whatevs.
 
Cheers.

Keni
Hi Beepster...

Thanks... I understand what you're saying and even agree with some. It's too bad that touch screens are being pushed down our throats simply to create a business/sales marketing. Microsoft had planned to release a speaking interface as primary interface years ago and abandoned it in favor of touch which manufacturers were already making deals for... As soon as everyone is comfortable with tofu and has bought into the tech heavily, speech enabled machines will emerge with new gear demands...

 
The success of smart phones and the iPad speak volumes about consumer demand for touch. Personally, I've liked touch with Sonar when I've been able to use it because it allows me to be "two-handed" in a way that a QWERTY keyboard and mouse, which were never really designed for piloting a DAW, don't allow. Unfortunately, to do it full-time I'd need to upgrade to 8.1...I'm seriously considering just waiting until 9 comes out.

I've thus far avoided the investment in the operating system and monitors that moving to touch would take, but I understand why it might be nice. After all, didn't most of us learn our craft by actually touching control boards and outboard gear? Back in the day we would have considered it to be quite awful to be forced to control mixers, tape decks, processors and amps with a mouse and a keyboard.

<rant>
Don't get me started on SIRI or "touch".
Did I mention I hated my iPhone, gotta admit it did bounce well though!
Went back to my flip phone, its a phone! I can even play mp3's with it.
iTunes, there's a pile.
Phones are phones, Computers are computers, and tablet are toys; nuff said.
I like my FW1884 control surface.
And don't get me started on Win 8.1; that is one miserable pile!
Bought it, installed it (twice) and actually tried to learn to navigate it; HATED IT!
Its a foreign country, WAY worse than moving from 8.5 to the X-series; and with none of the benefits!
It will only succeed if MS blackmails developers into supporting it. Ever heard of Millennium or Vista?
Why must MS continue to hide necessary functions?
Its a "tablet" OS, not a computer operating system.
</rant>
 
Tom

Each of the X series has had its "issues".
Overall (once I got past the learning curve) I love all 3.
Follow the upgrade path baby, follow the upgrade path.
Its gettin' better all the time!
Tom

Keni
What exactly do you do with touch that makes it so convenient?

I use it with the mouse. most of the time I swipe with my right hand for grand gestures and selections, then use my left hand with the mouse for detailed work. Some things, like faders, work well for touch especially multi-touch. So in that case, touch replaces a control surface...you can't play multiple faders with a mouse. The "feel" is very much like using an old-school mixer, with the same kind of immediacy.
 
The reason why I'm happy with X3e is because for the way I work, it has the fastest workflow of anything I've used. However, I agree whole-heartedly about the value of voice control. I used it with the Atari and again with Vista. Ultimately, a combination of touch, voice, footswitches (like the POK), and mouse (with occasional forays into QWERTY-land) will be off the hook for speeding up workflow. Well, assuming that Microsoft gets Windows 9 right...

Anderton
then use my left hand with the mouse for detailed work.

You play righty, are you a southpaw?
I consider myself ambidextrous; you know, equally terrible with both hands.
I don't think I could work the mouse with the left hand, too much muscle memory to overcome now.
Touch really works for you?
Two pulls on the virtual fader with no (or wrong) results and there would be UFO's buzzing Rainier again.
Just sayin'
Tom
 

Anderton

Keni
What exactly do you do with touch that makes it so convenient?

I use it with the mouse. most of the time I swipe with my right hand for grand gestures and selections, then use my left hand with the mouse for detailed work. Some things, like faders, work well for touch especially multi-touch. So in that case, touch replaces a control surface...you can't play multiple faders with a mouse. The "feel" is very much like using an old-school mixer, with the same kind of immediacy.
 
The reason why I'm happy with X3e is because for the way I work, it has the fastest workflow of anything I've used. However, I agree whole-heartedly about the value of voice control. I used it with the Atari and again with Vista. Ultimately, a combination of touch, voice, footswitches (like the POK), and mouse (with occasional forays into QWERTY-land) will be off the hook for speeding up workflow. Well, assuming that Microsoft gets Windows 9 right...

Hi Craig...
 
Yes, I can see it as an additional tool very well and I'm sure to like that aspect if I ever get one for my DAW....?
 
I agree with you completely there... I'm just not happy with things that have been lost due to this...
 
That said, I just posted a message about the new monitor I was just gifted... I just setup a 30" Apple Cinema screen at 2560x1600 resolution and many of my issues with screen real estate are changed! ;-)
 
Tho zoom is still a problem... ;-)
 
Keni
 

I am stumped on a regular basis with the Windows 8(.1) comments about how "difficult" it is to get used to - Especially with 8.1(update 1), the ability to make the desktop the default, etc.  I simply cannot understand what is so difficult to get used to about a change start menu/screen.  How much time do you spend "launching" programs?  Is Windows 8.1 not otherwise VERY similar to Windows 7?  Of course, there are extra tools and whatnot that let you see more of the details - case in point: the task manager - and the desktop is still pretty much the same.  Once running your applications, unless you go to start another program, the interface is the same.  What's different?  What doesn't work?
 
I'm serious here.  I own an IT support company for small business.  Many of the users that I support have issue with Windows 8 until I show them just a few tips and they move along with their day/business and many are more productive than they were before (usually because of other tips that actually existed back in Windows Vista and above).
 
I use windows 8.1 on my laptop (a convertible Lenovo tablet), my desktop here at the house (where Sonar resides) and my desktop at the office (where I do support and a lot of website development work).  Boot time is faster, wake from sleep is faster, IE11 is finally mostly standards compliant (making my development life easier though there are still sites out there that don't work on it), start menu is less convoluted for getting to the programs I use the most, troubleshooting is greatly enhanced with new built in tools, etc.
 
Can someone tell me what the major malfunction is  - for example with Tom's comment of "tried to navigate it: HATED IT"?
 
Especially in regards to Sonar and other "normal" applications (not the apps, which I rarely use aside from the weather and such) - what is the big difference?
 

Windows 8.1 just has a much bigger start menu called a start screen. Takes about 15 mins to work out how to use it, another 15 mins to customize it. You also need to learn the shortcut Windows Start +X or right click the start button. That's it.

People have resisted new user Interfaces since the beginning of time. Nothing new here

ever since I moved to win8.1, my X3E is working good aside from the workflow issues I have already mentioned in the forum. No issues at all yet. 

Guitarmech111
ever since I moved to win8.1, my X3E is working good aside from the workflow issues I have already mentioned in the forum. No issues at all yet. 

Did you do a clean install or install over 7? I'm really not up for re-installing all the things that need authorizations...yes I do know a clean install is best and that's what I've always done, but it would be nice if I could cheat just this one time...

@Blades,
Maybe I'll try one more time and get a little help.
@Craig,
"Cheaters never proper"; I'd go with a clean install.
 
T