Interesting stuff Bapu. 
 
One thing I don't think people are pointing out about Mixbus is that if I understand correctly the 2bus tapesat can't be turned off.
 
How do you account for the significant level differences between DAWs? Maybe some of the Mixbus fanboys can explain why one export had peaks at -1 and the second actually had over/s.

 

Hey cc. Any IDEAS ABOUT the discrepancy between FILE volumes?

backwoods
How do you account for the significant level differences between DAWs? Maybe some of the Mixbus fanboys can explain why one export had peaks at -1 and the second actually had over/s.

I'm not sure of why yet. I'll have to study it closer tomorrow night.

backwoods I am not sure that there necessarily is a level change with a sound change and we are talking subtle differences here in sound, not huge. I use K system metering and if I mix a bunch of stems in Studio One say I get a certain level from the master buss. eg the overall mix will be at the K ref level. My VU meters are after my DAW.
 
When I do the same thing in Mixbus I am seeing exactly the same final level on a mix eg the K ref level. So the VU's are showing exactly the same thing for me. (that is why VU's are so good, they MAKE you keep everything at the right level just by their nature) When I open either the Studio One mix or Harrison mix in an editor and do even more precision metering I am still seeing exactly same thing from both.
 
What I do find though is the buses inside MixBus seem to have good headroom and they never seem to clip easily. They do seem to behave a little differently to the same buses inside my DAW. Not sure what is going on there. A reviewer said the same thing in one of his Mixbus reviews as well. (I don't use any buss compressors even though they are there either)
 
Saturation is minimal especially when turned right off. I really doubt you would hear the difference between that and no saturation at all in another DAW for example. Even when I get the saturation meter to peak either slightly or up to the ref level I can barely hear it anyway. I find it very very subtle if used.
 
I have not spent enough time tweaking the channel or buss compressors either but I will over time. I don't think the limiter on the masterbuss is anything to write home about either. PSP Xenon kills that by far. I am not runing many plugs inside it either from outside, only a few choice ones and the Harrison plugins. They are rather nice sounding though.  The mastering EQ has a rather unusual method of drawing the curves too. Takes a little getting used to but once you get it though it is really cool.
 
What I really like about the mastering comp is you can limit the gain reduction (in all bands) to any value so even if you slam it, you never actually hear it.

Comparing two mix systems the way Bapu has done is flawed for a few reasons. Firstly setting panning in Sonar and then attempting to set the same panning in Mixbus is more difficult than you think. I compared a while ago 4 different DAW's using the same multitrack session . I found that the only way to get very close to a perfect null was to only pan L,C,R and the C position had to have the same pan law. Only doing that I was able to create nulls that produced artifacts that were very low down.
 
A better way. Set up a mix in any DAW and create say 4 or 6 buses. Assign the individual tracks to the buses and create the mix on the buses any way you want. Panning , level even effects on tracks and buses. Ensure the bus masters are at unity gain. Sum all the buses to a stereo main mix output and create the final mix that way.
 
Export the buses as stereo stems. Import the stems into Mixbus and put them onto tracks. Assign the tracks to individual Mixbus buses then combine the Mixbus buses to the main out and export from there. That way you are eliminating all possible errors due to inaccuracies that may have been introduced in Bapu's approach. (there wont be any level variations I am sure of it)
 
But that in a way is a bit of waste of the Harrison features. You are not using anything! Why bother. You may get some differences but they will probably be small. You have totally missed the point of using the Harrison software in the first place.
 
The real power of Mixbus is fully utilising the available resources available such as the channel EQ and dynamics, the bus EQ and dynamics, the final master with that lovely EQ on it. I think that is much bigger part of the Mixbus sound. The EQ's just sound nice especially when pushed hard but even so when not. I have just found it is so easy and nice to fine tune a stem on a track using the EQ and maybe a touch of dynamics. Same for the buses. Tape saturation can be used or not. The scientists are going to say but there are two many variables there in those two approaches. I say just do the best mix you can in your DAW and do the best mix you can in Mixbus and compare the two. One sounds a little sweeter to me.
 
Here is another simple test and I started this way first. Master a well mixed pre mastered stereo mix the best you can in your DAW. Then try mastering that same premastered mix in Mixbus and see what you come up with. (using available track EQ/Bus EQ, dynamics not necessary for this test) BUT you need their mastering EQ and dynamics plugins though to really give Mixbus a head start. When you do (Mixbus owners must actually make the commitment to make the purchases) you will really know. I personally prefer the Mixbus mastered sound over my DAW.

In a way Mike I would prefer not to have to go to Mixbus for either mastering or mixing. It is quite a bit of work. And you end up with Mixbus sessions along with your own DAW sessions. In fact I have tried my hardest to be biased to my DAW for those two jobs but something just keeps on telling me the how nice the Mixbus sound is so I have decided to do the extra work and go the extra mile by using it.

Yes Bapu you are correct I tend to think of it as a half mix/mastering tool even if I am mixing many stems together. I still prefer mainly mixing on my main DAW because it has everything to offer in terms of familiarity, effects, workflow etc.
 
What I am finding though is I may not apply EQ over a bus export for example because I like the way Harrison sounds doing the EQ instead or the same for bus dynamics. And now that I have got their reverb I am figuring out ways I can create stems in such a way as to leave out some reverbs in my DAW and add them later in as well in Mixbus. So I am sort of doing a half mix there if you know what I mean.
 
Once you start using the two things you learn what you can not do or leave out in the DAW and what you can add and apply later in Mixbus. I really like mastering in it though. I was using the Cakewalk LP64 but since getting the Harrison mastering EQ I have stopped doing that. I still use PSP Xenon at the end of the line though.
 
Also I was not putting you down for your testing approach either. I have had some experience with this and I found the LCR approach to panning tends to be more accurate. I don't like leaving everything off either in this type of test because you are in a way not really testing the very thing you are trying to test!

Hahahahahahaha "wonky"


Wonky see wonky do!



Hahahahahahaha

It does support stereo vst on stereo tracks, and mono on mono tracks. You can route a mono track to a newly inserted stereo track and use a stereo vst there. I like mixbus a lot, great for mixing and mastering.

One day Mooch is gonna thank me for recommending this to him....
(even though he actually pointed it out to me before it was available for Windoze)

DeeringAmps
A) I've only just started my second cup of joe; HONEST!
B) I've posted more in the last 30 minutes than the last 30 days.
C) My wife is on to me, I can no longer blame Ed for all my software purchases (no way I could keep up anyway).
D) I DO NOT need MixBuss, I WILL NOT buy MixBuss, I WILL NOT buy MixBuss AND all the great plugs that will take my production "skills" to the next level.
I WILL NOT, I Will Not, i will not........
t

So..........
 
Have you installed it yet?

i'm still holding out, but i'm growing weaker by the moment...
t
help me

I'm gonna get it. Just heard too many good things about it. Plus I just got my wife's blessing, so away I go!

bapu
It is gud. I've been playing with all morning and afternoon. So far I'm really liking it. I did get all the XT and EP options since EP was $39 and all the XT plugs were 25% off. so it amounted to $276 for the whole shebang.

I wish I could get the whole thing but 2 of my kids have birthdays in September. Oh well, Christmas is coming up!