bapu
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I wanna be Geroge Martin
Well, I don't want to be him but I want use a technique he used.
I have an all audio project where I want to add a MIDI piano. It's too darn fast for my playing skills.
So I want to slow down the thing from like 140bpm to say 100bpm. Record the piano and the reset to 140bpm.
In George's day he slowed it down and the pitch was dropped.
I assume in SONAR the pitch would/could stay the same?
How do I do that?
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Roflcopter
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/09 19:02:23
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If you do it in midi, there is no problem with pitch. 
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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bapu
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/09 19:04:04
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Yeah, but I need to hear the audio (slowed down) too.
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Roflcopter
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/09 19:06:59
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When you play the midi you hear the audio, if you want to see an actual wav for some reason, just freeze the synth, and refreeze later when you change the tempo. But I think you see problems where there are none. It's not audio until you want to.
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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bapu
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/09 19:15:29
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Maybe I'm not explaining it properly.
I have 2 vocal tracks, 2 guitar tracks and drum tracks (all live audio, not midi) played at 140bpm. I want to slow down the audio tracks to 100bpm (without changing pitch) and play the new midi piano part. Then I want to speed up the whole project back to 140bpm.
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Roflcopter
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/09 19:23:30
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I'd just export a very basic versio of the rest (drums, bass) and play along to that slowed down track, however awful it sounds, then fix any errors in the midi, and add it to the other project. Doesn't win any Nobels, but is done in a jiffy, without worry over correct representation of intermediary files noone will ever hear. At least, that's my take on it.
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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Mamabear
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/09 21:10:24
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bapu
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/09 21:29:20
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It's a cover tune by Spirit (their biggest hit).
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Mamabear
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/09 21:47:48
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Can't find it. Have you got a link to it on youtube?
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Rbh
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/09 22:00:30
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Marah
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/09 22:44:28
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Render a normal-speed mix you can play the keyboard to. Bring it into Reaper. Use Reaper's play rate slider (in the transport bar) to slow down the tempo to a point where you can play the kb part; right click the slider to make sure that you do not also adjust the pitch. This will let you play the part in key, even you don't slow it by half. At this point, there are two ways you can go: 1) Record the MIDI in Reaper, which would let you easily verify the performance at normal tempo (just return the play rate to 1.0), and when you get it right, save the MIDI tracks(s) as a .mid file and bring it into Sonar. ...or... 2) Render the half- (or whatever) tempo mix in Reaper, bring it into Sonar, record the MIDI in Sonar to the slow version, and when you're done, process the MIDI to double time. For the particular George Martin effect that I think you're going for, you can even play the keyboard part an octave down, render it at half-speed, and then play it back at normal speed, which will alter your performance dynamics in "that" way. (I think that might be better done in Reaper, where the time-stretch algos are killer diller.)
post edited by Marah - 2009/04/09 22:54:50
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bapu
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/10 01:12:53
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Mamabear
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/10 07:52:20
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OK, thanks. I thought maybe I could offer to play it for you, but I could hardly hear the piano in that song, so I'm not sure what you're after.
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No How
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/10 08:41:18
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ORIGINAL: bapu
I Got A Line On You
 brings back many sweet memories. We used to play that at graduation dances. Cool little song.
s o n g s – Beauty lodged in a bad hotel has no value. Raymond Lull
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bapu
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/10 09:14:01
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Yeah, the Youtube version is pretty muddy (actually so was the original given that it was late 60's technology), but there is a piano in there that pretty much keeps the pulse of the song moving along, IMO.
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bapu
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/10 09:15:05
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ORIGINAL: Rbh
Natures way ?
My band in High School also did that song. Now that I could paly a piano part at normal speed. 
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No How
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/10 09:27:20
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ORIGINAL: bapu
Yeah, the Youtube version is pretty muddy (actually so was the original given that it was late 60's technology), but there is a piano in there that pretty much keeps the pulse of the song moving along, IMO.
Yes, i remember....that piano part was the heart of the song (to my ears)...i loved it....i think it was in the key of Bmajor....weird key.
s o n g s – Beauty lodged in a bad hotel has no value. Raymond Lull
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bapu
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/10 10:51:02
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ORIGINAL: Marah
Render a normal-speed mix you can play the keyboard to.
Bring it into Reaper.
Use Reaper's play rate slider (in the transport bar) to slow down the tempo to a point where you can play the kb part; right click the slider to make sure that you do not also adjust the pitch. This will let you play the part in key, even you don't slow it by half.
At this point, there are two ways you can go:
1) Record the MIDI in Reaper, which would let you easily verify the performance at normal tempo (just return the play rate to 1.0), and when you get it right, save the MIDI tracks(s) as a .mid file and bring it into Sonar.
...or...
2) Render the half- (or whatever) tempo mix in Reaper, bring it into Sonar, record the MIDI in Sonar to the slow version, and when you're done, process the MIDI to double time.
For the particular George Martin effect that I think you're going for, you can even play the keyboard part an octave down, render it at half-speed, and then play it back at normal speed, which will alter your performance dynamics in "that" way. (I think that might be better done in Reaper, where the time-stretch algos are killer diller.)
Thanks Marah aka Marah Mag aka HCMG. I'm gonna give that a whirl. BTW, I was not so much after the "feel" as the technique (since I can't play well enuf at the current tempo of 140bpm). PS, I do like the new avatar better than the last one.
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bapu
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/10 10:52:38
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I thought maybe I could offer to play it for you, Thank you kindly for at least thinking of it.
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Rbh
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/10 22:41:51
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I love old spirit tunes... I still jam to Natures way occasionally with friends.... in fact we did a quicky version of I got a line on you a few weeks back. First time I ever played it and got guitar solo in the middle half way right , it was a real time jam and it actually came out pretty good.
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bapu
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/10 23:40:15
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This version was played by my High School rock band on Feb 7th of this year. It was a 40 year reunion for us.
We recorded.
I Got A Line on You - Spirit
Stone Free - Hendrix
Badge - Cream
Sunshine of Your Love - Cream
Hey Joe - Hendix version
On The Way Home - Buffalo Springfield
I Woke Up This Morning - Ten Years After
Gimmie Shelter - Stones
Cinnomin Girl - Neil Young
Red House - Hendrix
Road House Blues - Doors
The Last Time - Stones
Season Of the Witch - Donnovon
Dear Jill - Blodwyn Pig
Although technicall the recording went well, we played just you think guys who have not played together for 40 years would play. Hence on at least this song I want to add the piano part to spice it up a bit. I added acoustic guitar to Hey Joe. I'll be adding a piano to Gimmie Shelter and on On The Way Home.
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Tom Riggs
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/11 00:02:48
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You can do this with audio snap. Select all and enable AS. in the AS dialogue click quantize click the double arrow <-> which enables which sets it to follow the tempo. press the w to rewind the now time and then change the tempo. Record your midi track and then set the tempo back and turn off as. Done Tom
post edited by Tom Riggs - 2009/04/11 00:13:39
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Fog
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/20 13:38:24
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Ed, well you can't be George.. his son Giles has followed in his footsteps if it's not pitched / messed about with .. I just separate the chords / notes in recycle.. a friend used to use an electronic guitar tuner to do that trick, but splitting up each chord or whatever and then putting them together helps me
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jamesyoyo
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RE: I wanna be Geroge Martin
2009/04/21 10:46:53
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Simply Audiosnap the tracks and click the <--> button which tells it to Follow Tempo. Then change the bpm. It may not sound perfect, but good enough for what you are trying to do.
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Mooch4056
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Re:I wanna be Geroge Martin
2010/12/24 01:17:19
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bapu
Well, I don't want to be him but I want use a technique he used.
I have an all audio project where I want to add a MIDI piano. It's too darn fast for my playing skills.
So I want to slow down the thing from like 140bpm to say 100bpm. Record the piano and the reset to 140bpm.
In George's day he slowed it down and the pitch was dropped.
I assume in SONAR the pitch would/could stay the same?
How do I do that?
SEE! You are a stupid face. I know how to do THAT!!
From Now On Call Me Conquistador!
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Garry Stubbs
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Re:I wanna be Geroge Martin
2010/12/24 04:32:46
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Bapu, maybe your rendition does not need a keyboard part from you, the message is in the first two lines of the song !
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bitflipper
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Re:I wanna be Geroge Martin
2010/12/24 11:42:34
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George Martin's half-speed gimmick wasn't done because he couldn't play the piano (or harpsichord) well - the guy is an accomplished, classically-trained multi-instrumentalist. It was mainly done for the unusual tonal result: the low notes on a piano are richer harmonically than the high notes. Nowadays, we'd have a number of alternatives to achieve the effect, such as layering another piano sample.
I never play at half speed, but then I'm primarily a piano player and 140bpm is within my natural comfort zone. But sometimes I need better precision than my naturally sloppy technique normally affords. So here's my trick for managing difficult parts, fast or slow: play the part at normal speed but don't worry about hitting the right notes! Only worry about getting the timing correct, even if it means playing obviously-wrong notes. With wrong notes but in the right places, it's fairly easy to subsequently repair the performance in the PRV.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Guitarhacker
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Re:I wanna be Geroge Martin
2010/12/24 13:42:21
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Being a non piano player... I have used Bit's technique a few times... nothing major of course, but it works well for short things.
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jimmyrage
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Re:I wanna be Geroge Martin
2010/12/24 14:28:22
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If you have Melodyne you can slow it down and speed it back up, or fix wrong notes.
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Jonbouy
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Re:I wanna be Geroge Martin
2010/12/24 22:58:48
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I wanna be Geroge Martin Ahh, Geroge, never heard of him. Has he done anything that I'd know?
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