Helpful ReplyI'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans

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35mm
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2018/08/02 23:08:33 (permalink)

I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans

It's been about 4 months since Cakewalk by Bandlab was introduced and we were all asked to create an account at Bandlab so our Cakewalk accounts could be migrated over. Since then we have had some great updates to Cakewalk, but nothing else seems to have happened with regards to the proposals to migrate user accounts, launch new forums, update the Cakewalk site etc. Looking on bandlab.com there is no mention of Cakewalk which I can understand in the absence of lack of user account migration and other preparations.
 
It seems that a lot of time has passed and while there has been great progress with the software development, the community, marketing, user accounts website etc. have not progressed at all. Visiting cakewalk.com will still tell you all about Sonar and even has buy links still. Meanwhile, where are the new users? Cakewalk is available if you know how to get it, but it almost seems to be a secret and if someone does find it by diving through deep links, they can't join the community. It seems as if Cakewalk is still a prerelease for existing users only.
 
I'm not impatient for any changes to take place. I mean Cakewalk works well for us and the community here is great as it is, but I'm surprised that nothing public, outside of the software has changed during the past 4 months, not even a hint of anything. Maybe something massive is going on behind the scenes or they are simply not happy releasing Cakewalk to the masses in its current form. It all seems a bit odd to me.

Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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a13xhp
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/02 23:22:12 (permalink)
I totally agree with you. There is too much secrecy with CBB and I am starting to feel a little bit nervous. Meng has said several times that there is an "aggresive roadmap" coming but, apparently, they can't share any more information . In my case, I need more than promises and blind faith for staying with Cakewalk in its current form.
 
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 00:33:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bapu 2018/08/03 14:05:53
When it's free to D/L you have zero rights to expect anything. 

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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 00:42:25 (permalink)
I agree that Cakewalk isn't front and center when a person looks for it. It can be found fairly easy by anyone who wants to try and find it.  I'm in no hurry either. These things take time.
 
Concerning new users, we don't have the download stats. I don't think you are being optimistic enough. But that's me.

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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 00:58:24 (permalink)
ampfixer
When it's free to D/L you have zero rights to expect anything. 


Brutal but right on the nail. (-:
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 01:02:26 (permalink)
Four months isn't really that long. When I've consulted to software companies, it's sometimes about stops on the roadmap that are 2 or 3 years in the future. 
 
Frankly, I'm pleasantly surprised that Noel has kept the monthly updates coming. That's impressive.

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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 01:15:56 (permalink)
a13xhp
I totally agree with you. There is too much secrecy with CBB and I am starting to feel a little bit nervous. Meng has said several times that there is an "aggresive roadmap" coming but, apparently, they can't share any more information . In my case, I need more than promises and blind faith for staying with Cakewalk in its current form.

It's not secrecy that I'm worried about. In fact, I'm not worried. Just curious. The length of time with no changes to anything other than the software is a curiosity to me.

Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 01:39:21 (permalink)
Anderton
Four months isn't really that long. When I've consulted to software companies, it's sometimes about stops on the roadmap that are 2 or 3 years in the future. 
 
Frankly, I'm pleasantly surprised that Noel has kept the monthly updates coming. That's impressive.


No, it's not that long when it comes to developing a load of infrastructure, but it's a long time to keep the old Cakewalk site up with old products and all. It's also a long time to keep newbies locked out of this community. And a long time to archive this forum and set up a new one. I wouldn't expect all these things to be done at once but in stages and there haven't been any stages :)  Noel et al are doing a great job developing the software, knocking out bug fixes and new features every month, but everything else seems to be stagnating a bit. I do really appreciate the fact that the monthly updates are pretty much just for us existing users of a now free product.
 
Starise
I agree that Cakewalk isn't front and center when a person looks for it. It can be found fairly easy by anyone who wants to try and find it.  I'm in no hurry either. These things take time.
 
Concerning new users, we don't have the download stats. I don't think you are being optimistic enough. But that's me.


I don't think that I'm not being optimistic enough, there simply hasn't been any marketing to get people interested in getting the new Cakewalk so there aren't that many people looking for it. Hell, there's hardly even any mention of it and nothing at all on cakewalk.com. It certainly isn't being pushed out to new users yet. That may be because BL are getting server infrastructure in place to cope with what could be huge demand and that's fair enough. 

Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 02:48:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Songmeister 2018/08/03 20:19:07
Not just impressive but generous also.
I don't think we also don't have the right to worry either. It's not our fight and we've already died once. Anything more we get is just icing on the cake.
 
Enjoy it.
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 03:41:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby a13xhp 2018/08/03 10:25:25
Just jumping in here so you can hear it from the horse's mouth. :-)
 
The most important thing to note is that take-up of CbB has been far better than we expected. For the conspiracy theorists who maybe feel that it has underperformed - this isn't true. 
 
There are definitely a lot of things being worked on behind the scenes, as with all companies!  I personally feel it may be a little harsh to say that we've been secretive about things - if anything I'd like to think we've tried to be as transparent as possible on issues without saying things that could compromise marketing and roadmap plans or announcements for the future - if there is a level of transparency that anyone feels we are lacking versus other companies, I am very happy for anyone to share examples with me, take the feedback seriously and address it and see if we can improve how we communicate with our audience.
 
The forum migration is taking longer than expected but it's nearly there. Two things: 1) We want to make sure the authentication system is set up correctly as we are phasing out the old Cakewalk accounts and we want to make the transition as seamless for everyone as possible 2) We need to make sure we have a proper executable end of life strategy and plan for the current forum so that it doesn't become a big mess when it happens. There is still a strong amount of traffic and people who use it as a daily resource for information so we can't jeopardise that with a half-baked transition.
 
Marketing efforts have absolutely not started yet at all, CbB has performed so well on a purely word of mouth basis right now and through the growth of BandLab Assistant that we had to throw our expectations of user acquisition funnel performance plans out of the window and start again from scratch. I can only credit the strength and support of the community for this and we can't thank you guys enough!
 
With regards to the legacy website - there are also currently a lot of things tied into it that is not so obvious from the consumer angle - for example, our context-sensitive documentation, such that sunsetting it into a legacy website is not as straightforward as you might think. The long-term replacement for www.cakewalk.com is already up at https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk but the update to the BandLab website takes a bit longer because of the UX considerations and current acquisition funnel that is affected by small amendments to the architecture of the landing page, and making sure it doesn't confuse our core users who are there purely for BandLab so again the refresh of that isn't necessary trivial.
 
Hope some of the inside info that I've shared above is helpful!
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 03:48:15 (permalink)
Thanks, Meng. You're a class act.
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 03:59:00 (permalink)
Much Appreciated, thank you for the update. 
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 04:37:47 (permalink)
Meng, thank you for this . . . great information "from the horse's mouth"

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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 07:04:21 (permalink)
Thank you, Meng! 

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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 07:06:33 (permalink)
Thanks for the update, Meng. I'm glad to hear that takeup has been good just through word of mouth. I can put my curiosity to bed now 

Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 08:58:12 (permalink)
meng
The forum migration is taking longer than expected but it's nearly there.

 
Dances around the room....
 
"Nearly there, it's nearly there, he says the new Cakewalk forum is nearly, nearly therrrrrrrre!"

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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 09:31:10 (permalink)
Anderton
Four months isn't really that long. When I've consulted to software companies, it's sometimes about stops on the roadmap that are 2 or 3 years in the future. 
 
Frankly, I'm pleasantly surprised that Noel has kept the monthly updates coming. That's impressive.



What this man said, all of it. I've worked at some of the biggest of the big.
 
I don't know when the acquisition actually occurred, but that was a damn short period of time between the Gibson announcement and the BandLab one. Making an acquisition of that magnitude and bringing the team into the company's ecosystem used to take us a lot longer than that before they could even get a mockup to show at an all-hands meeting. Just an artwork change.
 
They may have just bypassed all the rigmarole of integrating the code base into the company's existing dev environment, all that stuff, and left it in place, as-is. It wouldn't surprise me if the deal included the actual hardware that the devs use to create the builds on. Why not if it works.
 
Looking at Cakewalk as a "black box," from what I d/l'd back in April I can tell that they've prioritized stability and thrown in a few of what look like easy-to-implement convenience features, which is GREAT. By which I mean, it's what I would do.
 
In my experience, developers are relieved to have the opportunity to get rid of stability bugs. They don't like them any more than we do, but company execs believe that it's flashy features that sell licenses, not bug fixes. Which is why being freed from having to sell licenses is such a GOOD thing for Cakewalk! The Chord Track (or whatever) can wait to be included until it actually works, rather than being tied to the date of the Winter NAMM Show.

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chuckebaby
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 10:23:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Canopus 2018/08/04 05:31:22
meng
 
There is still a strong amount of traffic and people who use it as a daily resource for information so we can't jeopardise that with a half-baked transition.
 




This is what I suspected from the beginning as a main factor for taking some time to do this correctly.
Hopefully the new site can look similar to this one with simple improvements, not a facelift.
I can almost guarantee everyone here will tell you they are perfectly happy with the flow and structure of this website the way it is, they are simply not happy with the little quirks that come along with it (search functions not working, comments disappearing,exc)
 
My hope is that this new site remains similar to the way this one already is with only added features and fixes.
Kind of like what your doing to CbB.

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#18
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 10:55:08 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby wetdentist 2018/08/03 12:45:36
chuckebaby
My hope is that this new site remains similar to the way this one already is with only added features and fixes.
Kind of like what your doing to CbB.



^This.
 
Please don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater and turn the new forum into an unstructured Facebook wannabe look-alike. A forum that allows threads like this is something I personally would never come back to.
 
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 12:50:38 (permalink)
Thanks for the clarification Meng appreciated here.

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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 17:01:23 (permalink)
Canopus
chuckebaby
My hope is that this new site remains similar to the way this one already is with only added features and fixes.
Kind of like what your doing to CbB.



^This.
 
Please don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater and turn the new forum into an unstructured Facebook wannabe look-alike. A forum that allows threads like this is something I personally would never come back to.
 


The BL example you showed is not a forum! There are lots of forum software out there that can be installed and setup on the server and integrated with other databases and existing systems. Because of that BL are unlikely to develop their own as it's like reinventing the wheel and is a lot of work - trust me I've done it. Pretty much all available forum software display threads similar to this forum so don't worry. 

Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 17:24:16 (permalink)
Meng, my point about the old cakewalk.com site is that it would only take a few hours to update the home page as a temporary measure to explain that Cakewalk has now moved to Bandlab, put a big, graphic link to Bandlab there because that would be good, free marketing for BL, put some links for existing users to access their accounts, forums etc. and redirect all the old product marketing pages to the home page or direct to bandlab.com. That way, at least you would be making good use of all the traffic that is currently hitting cakewalk.com from google and everywhere else which would further promote Bandlab. At the moment all that traffic is going to waste on an obsolete product that is no longer available and which benefits no one. The kind of traffic that is hitting those pages would convert well to the Bandlab product let alone the Cakewalk product.
 
I do a lot of web dev myself, and I see traffic as a valuable commodity and hate to see it go to waste.
 

Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 17:44:56 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby fresh101 2018/08/03 17:54:49
I like this new owner - we should keep him! :O) 

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#23
Canopus
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 17:55:21 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby chuckebaby 2018/08/03 22:04:56
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Canopus
chuckebaby
My hope is that this new site remains similar to the way this one already is with only added features and fixes.
Kind of like what your doing to CbB.


^This.
 
Please don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater and turn the new forum into an unstructured Facebook wannabe look-alike. A forum that allows threads like this is something I personally would never come back to.


The BL example you showed is not a forum! There are lots of forum software out there that can be installed and setup on the server and integrated with other databases and existing systems. Because of that BL are unlikely to develop their own as it's like reinventing the wheel and is a lot of work - trust me I've done it. Pretty much all available forum software display threads similar to this forum so don't worry. 


I don’t think I ever said that the Cakewalk on the Lab! social media site is a forum. I said that I wouldn’t want to see the current forum turn into something like that. Moderated or not. Stranger things have happened.
 
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 19:20:45 (permalink)
Canopus
chuckebaby
My hope is that this new site remains similar to the way this one already is with only added features and fixes.
Kind of like what your doing to CbB.



^This.
 
Please don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater and turn the new forum into an unstructured Facebook wannabe look-alike. A forum that allows threads like this is something I personally would never come back to.
 


I totally agree!

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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 19:40:06 (permalink)
LJB
I like this new owner - we should keep him! :O) 


 
Definitely! I have no idea what is causing anxiety among the users of this forum. If everything stayed the way it is now,  that would be fine.  But it certainly appears that things are only likely to get better. Onward!




Tom
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 20:14:16 (permalink)
LJB
I like this new owner - we should keep him! :O) 


+1
 
I got a friend to "switch" to Cakewalk this week.  A better part of the conversation was around the transparency, involvement and graciousness of the new owner.  
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/03 20:58:42 (permalink)
I just hope it is an orderly transfer for everyone and
1) Purchases cross over to the new site. Z3TA+2 for example.
2) The new forum is as open as this one :)
3) The store is open so I can support Bandlab for keeping Cakewalk alive.
   

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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/04 05:23:02 (permalink)
InstrEd
I just hope it is an orderly transfer for everyone and
1) Purchases cross over to the new site. Z3TA+2 for example.
2) The new forum is as open as this one :)
3) The store is open so I can support Bandlab for keeping Cakewalk alive.
   


I agree on all three of your points. Especially the forums - these forums have always been the best in the music biz as far as I am concerned. It's a wonderful community here. I can't see BL changing that as Meng and others use this community too and help to make it great also.

Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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Re: I'm curious about Bandlab/Cakewalks's plans 2018/08/04 05:58:07 (permalink)
meng
Just jumping in here so you can hear it from the horse's mouth. :-)
 
The most important thing to note is that take-up of CbB has been far better than we expected. For the conspiracy theorists who maybe feel that it has underperformed - this isn't true. 

 
Thank you, Meng.
 
I like that you all are taking the time to do the web site changeover well and right. I think things like the Cakewalk Knowledge Base are critical and important to maintain. Some of the information available there is irreplaceable. I'm guessing some of the not so easy to migrate parts are the authentication services that some of our SONAR Platinum Extras depend on. For those please take your time and do it right! (I know, you are.)

Sonar Platinum, Windows 7 Pro 64 bit, Intel NUC micro-workstation with 5th Gen Intel i5-5250U, 16 GB RAM and 1.25 TB Storage, Yamaha MG10XU Mixer USB Interface, Yamaha HPH-MT8 Monitor Headphones, Yamaha MX-49 controller synth
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