sharke
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Re: Interesting info on Roland's sale of Cakewalk to Gibson...
2017/12/20 17:14:28
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jamesg1213
Mystic38
Guitar sales have plummeted, Both Fender and Gibson are in dire straights due to this one single fact. bottom line is, millenials wont pick up an instrument that you actually have to spend time to practice on
I don't believe that 'fact' is true at all.
I've said this several times, but search YouTube for young guitarists - there are thousands of them. What about the hundreds of young guitar bands you can see on festival bills every summer?
I'm 57, have been playing guitar for 40 years, and I've only ever bought 2 brand new 'name' guitars in all that time. When have kids ever been able to buy new Gibsons or Fenders? It's the price of new guitars that's hurting the big two, and the fact that there are now any number of second hand guitars to be bought, plus some great low end new ones, like Squier.
I'm not sure how reliable YouTube videos are in determining how many kids are playing guitar today. If YouTube had been around since the 70's then maybe we'd be able to compare the number of videos then with the number of videos now and draw a conclusion - but since it hasn't, there is no reference available. Even if the number of kids taking up the guitar dropped by 50% over the last 20 years, there would still be millions of young guitar players in the world and I'm guessing thousands of YouTube videos. But the decline would still be there. One thing I have noticed is that when you go into a guitar store these days, there are far fewer kids sitting playing their favorite riffs. I remember going into guitar stores in the 80's and the place would be packed out with kids of all kinds - rockers, metal heads, goths, indie kids - all banging away in a giant cacophony of bad playing. When I go in guitar stores now there's a couple of kids dotted around here and there but nothing like how it used to be. The truth is that there are so many other things competing for the attention of young minds these days. Especially social media.
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jamesg1213
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Re: Interesting info on Roland's sale of Cakewalk to Gibson...
2017/12/20 17:33:46
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I wouldn't hold up YouTube vids as any kind of reliable statistic source, but it's certainly a valid argument against blanket statements like 'millennials don't want to learn an instrument'. Even in a backwater like this bit of SW Scotland I know several young folk who play guitar, violin, piano etc.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Interesting info on Roland's sale of Cakewalk to Gibson...
2017/12/20 19:16:34
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From where I sit (actively mentoring students on band instruments for over 20 years), there is a large decline in the study of all musical instruments, not just guitar. Most of the band programs I am familiar with are something like 60-70% of the participation levels they were a generation ago. There are many possible explanations for this: - The music they listen to just isn't all that interesting, at least not in a way that makes a person want to pick up an instrument and join in. Most of what is out there is vocal with some pretty mundane instrumental backing.
- The rap / hiphop stuff has drawn away some potential instrumentalists. Much of this is in the box production.
- Students are under increasing time pressure to load up their resumes with highly varied activities in order to be admitted to college and get scholarships.
- "Rock stars" aren't what they used to be. There are a few people (Lady Gaga et al) who are able to attract a big following, but mostly those are singles, not bands.
- There aren't so many jobs playing in successful bands, often because of the use of DAWs and other technology. Only a few can make a living in the main recording centers (NY, LA, Nashville, etc.)
- The drugs and groupies aren't as fun as they used to be.
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craigb
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Re: Interesting info on Roland's sale of Cakewalk to Gibson...
2017/12/21 01:27:40
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Kids are too busy texting and checking their social disease sites to have time for learning an instrument.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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dubdisciple
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Re: Interesting info on Roland's sale of Cakewalk to Gibson...
2017/12/22 12:05:33
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sharke
jamesg1213
Mystic38
Guitar sales have plummeted, Both Fender and Gibson are in dire straights due to this one single fact. bottom line is, millenials wont pick up an instrument that you actually have to spend time to practice on
I don't believe that 'fact' is true at all.
I've said this several times, but search YouTube for young guitarists - there are thousands of them. What about the hundreds of young guitar bands you can see on festival bills every summer?
I'm 57, have been playing guitar for 40 years, and I've only ever bought 2 brand new 'name' guitars in all that time. When have kids ever been able to buy new Gibsons or Fenders? It's the price of new guitars that's hurting the big two, and the fact that there are now any number of second hand guitars to be bought, plus some great low end new ones, like Squier.
I'm not sure how reliable YouTube videos are in determining how many kids are playing guitar today. If YouTube had been around since the 70's then maybe we'd be able to compare the number of videos then with the number of videos now and draw a conclusion - but since it hasn't, there is no reference available.
Even if the number of kids taking up the guitar dropped by 50% over the last 20 years, there would still be millions of young guitar players in the world and I'm guessing thousands of YouTube videos. But the decline would still be there.
One thing I have noticed is that when you go into a guitar store these days, there are far fewer kids sitting playing their favorite riffs. I remember going into guitar stores in the 80's and the place would be packed out with kids of all kinds - rockers, metal heads, goths, indie kids - all banging away in a giant cacophony of bad playing. When I go in guitar stores now there's a couple of kids dotted around here and there but nothing like how it used to be.
The truth is that there are so many other things competing for the attention of young minds these days. Especially social media.
Millenials play guitars. They just have different aspirations. The best young guitar player I know is more likely to play Kanye albums than classic rock. For millenials, a guitar is just one of many tools. They are very capable. Think of any challenging guitar rift and there is a kid on youtube playing it better than most of us could. Sales are down because they are thriftier. They are far more apt to get used guitar than go into debt for one.
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anydmusic
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Re: Interesting info on Roland's sale of Cakewalk to Gibson...
2017/12/22 15:56:06
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A fellow guitarist said the other day that Gibson and Fender make some great guitars but they are priced for and aimed at collectors rather than players.
Of course it is easy to bash bigger companies but it does seem that Gibson and Fender have forgotten about the typical or aspiring guitarist. I know that they have Epiphone and Squier but they both used to have some lower cost models. I guess the problem is that those models became popular because of the players that used them and now they can command the same high price as what used to be their higher priced siblings.
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bapu
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Re: Interesting info on Roland's sale of Cakewalk to Gibson...
2017/12/22 17:11:11
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I'm just glad I put a guitar in my sons hands at age 10. He's 42 now and he makes a living centered around music. Something I was never able to do.
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michaelhanson
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Re: Interesting info on Roland's sale of Cakewalk to Gibson...
2017/12/22 17:29:55
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anydmusic
A fellow guitarist said the other day that Gibson and Fender make some great guitars but they are priced for and aimed at collectors rather than players.
Of course it is easy to bash bigger companies but it does seem that Gibson and Fender have forgotten about the typical or aspiring guitarist. I know that they have Epiphone and Squier but they both used to have some lower cost models. I guess the problem is that those models became popular because of the players that used them and now they can command the same high price as what used to be their higher priced siblings.
Buy used, there are lots of used guitars out there, in great condition, at great prices. My first 3 instruments were used when I started playing in the 70's. I didn't buy my first new instrument until I was in college and worked 1/2 a Summer to make enough money to buy it.
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bapu
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Re: Interesting info on Roland's sale of Cakewalk to Gibson...
2017/12/22 17:34:43
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My first two guitars were new. My first bass was new. All three cheap knockoffs. My second bass was used. Best deal I ever got. 1964 P Bass for $15 dollars. It was a little "hot" and it didn't work. I had to solder some of the leads to the pots. Traded up to new Gibson EB0 then shortly traded up for a new EB3 then traded up for new Rick 4003. Traded Rick up for my "used" (i.e. three month old) Alembic Series I bass (whoops I let it I have an Alembic Bass  ). Every guitar or bass I've purchased, or was gifted by The Lovely Lady, since then has been new.
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jamesg1213
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Re: Interesting info on Roland's sale of Cakewalk to Gibson...
2017/12/22 17:47:30
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anydmusic
I know that they have Epiphone and Squier but they both used to have some lower cost models. I guess the problem is that those models became popular because of the players that used them and now they can command the same high price as what used to be their higher priced siblings.
I bought a new Gibson Sonex in 1981, it was the nearest I could get to a Les Paul. I still have it.
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craigb
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Re: Interesting info on Roland's sale of Cakewalk to Gibson...
2017/12/23 01:48:20
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bapu
Every guitar or bass I've purchased, or was gifted by The Lovely Lady, since then has been new.
So you heard "Getting the first bass with a girl" instead of "Getting to first bass" ya? 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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ckuper
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Re: Interesting info on Roland's sale of Cakewalk to Gibson...
2018/01/02 20:02:43
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Craig, it's good to hear your insights. I have been using Cakewalk since the DOS days and even helped debug some issues with SMPTE sync one time. I have also been in the hardware and software development industry now for well over 30 years, climbing into the upper layers of management and later managing my own enterprises, so I understand the challenges you speak about. And it's really all a familiar sad story. There are many good ideas that can be brought to bear to rescue a struggling business line, but after a company has been acquired into a larger conglomerate of companies, turf wars, silo walls, power struggles, lack of vision and lack of understanding of what drives each core business gets in the way. Ultimately, profitability becomes the only metric, while marketing strategy and audience augmentation by knowing your audience's needs take a back seat, finally leading to poor results.
I also have to disagree that hardware is the answer. Although there's a lot of money in hardware sales, I believe that it is also a challenging business, especially since musicians do not generally have deep pockets. It is much easier to sell a $50 soft Korg M1 than to sell a $1,000 Korg Kross. So it should be easy to properly market Cakewalk software, like the kick-ass Z3TA+2, than hardware.
So what I really want to ask is: Is this market the issue? Can the market sustain healthy sales of these types of products given the cost of R&D and support? Are the other software vendors in the same market also on the edge? Could it all be an issue of price point? $1 apps in the Apple app store move like flies and can generate a lot of revenue by sheer volume. Could any of the Cakewalk products have had more potential at a lower price point? For example, I think the Z3TA+ on my iPad is outstanding, and it only cost me $20. To buy it for the desktop or laptop would have been $99 (I missed the $49 sale), so I have resisted. Why not sell it at a better price point? It might have brought much more total revenue at a lower point.
If you could talk about these issues it would be great because the idea of acquiring all the Cakewalk assets to have a clean start might be attractive, but only if there really is a market along with sound fiscal management.
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Doc_Hollingsworth
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Re: Interesting info on Roland's sale of Cakewalk to Gibson...
2018/01/05 05:49:11
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I think the observation might be spot on. McNalley Smith, a music school in Minnesota closed abruptly on December 18th. Due to declining attendance and revenues. Also because they didn’t make the move to online education.
Even in discussions with my advisors at Berklee, they have said that their main attendees are between the ages of 35 and 60 for their online programs. And judging from my classes over the last three years that seems to be the case with Millennials and post Millennials making up less than 20% of the class.
And of the younger ones almost 50% of those are unable to play an instrument and are enrolled as music business majors or vocal arts majors. Those that can play an instrument are usually hard pressed to do any kind of arrangement outside of EDM. And that’s really tough on them for a school that is predominantly jazz focused.
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