zblip
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Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
Does Sonar X3 sound good enough and has the necessary plugins and synths to record and mix a pro quality album?
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Vab
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 10:15:15
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One of my friends makes full fledged studio quality albums with free recording software on Linux, so Im sure that Sonar is more than capable of that. But then again he is like a music production wizard.
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Beepster
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 10:22:49
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Well that depends on some other factors as well like your instruments, your hardware and most importantly your own skill but yes... Sonar is a professional DAW. You also have to consider the different packages. X3 (the base version) doesn't come with nearly as much stuff as Producer or Studio BUT does have everything you NEED (like instruments and effects). It just may be a little harder to get the results you want and you may be a little more limited creatively. Still people have been recording pro albums on FAR less for many many years. With the higher end packages you get duplicate, triplicate and sometimes MORE variants on specific plug ins and instruments giving you much more flexibility. You also get the ProChannel with those versions which makes mixing much easier (IMO) and the PC effects are very very nice considering the low cost. Thing is you have to learn how and when to use them. X3 can do pretty much most anything in regards to audio production. Getting it to actually DO those things is the hard part but really no harder than any other DAW. hmm... I'd say welcome to the forum but it seems you've been here for quite a while. Seems like an odd question considering that fact. :-/
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daveny5
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 10:27:34
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The Beatles recorded Sgt Peppers on a 4 track tape recorder. Sonar is infinitely more powerful than that. Its up to the writer, performer, recording engineer, and mastering engineer to make your music sound good. Often those roles are filled by one person.... YOU! Perhaps your wizard friend could give you some help. Even though he uses a different tool, the process is still the same.
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Westside Steve
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 10:36:53
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I think they had two of them, Studer Revox if I'm not mistaken. And it probably doesn't hurt to have George Martin at your side.
But to your question with a competent engineer and good outboard equipment I have no doubt you can. WSS
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zblip
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 10:39:28
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Thanks for answering. Well, the reason I ask this question is, studios use Pro Tools and I wonder, is there a reason other than the fact that Pro Tools is a standard, that engineers use it in studio? Does Sonar have an inferior over all sound due to the fact that it is a Native DAW and doesn't use physical processing cards? Is there an aspect of Sonar that is "sub standard" compared to Pro Tools etc?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 10:46:46
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ProTools has a very nice workflow for audio especially (or so most people feel). Back when PCs were a LOT less powerful, their expansion cards allowed people to use a ton of plugins while native systems were stuck with a few, or low quality ones. These days, that isn't such an issue, but ProTools is by now the de facto standard for larger recording studios. Many production style studios use Cubase, Logic and yes, Sonar. Reaper is gaining some popularity, and if I'm not mistaken Colby Caillat's hit of 2012(?) "Call Me Maybe" was done entirely in Reason. In other words, your own skill in composition, production and mixing are much more likely to hamper you than any inherent lack of sound quality on Sonar's part.
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ChewingAluminumFoil
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 10:59:11
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daveny5 compares it to a 4 track. I'll go farther. It's way more powerful than a state-of-the-art 1980s recording studio. I've done it the Old Way with patch cables and tape machines and SONAR gives you infinitely more versatility. Helps to know what you're trying to do of course. That said since I don't use SONAR every day I spend a fair amount of time muttering "now what happened to the sound?" but I did that trying to run a big console in a studio in 80s. :-) CAF
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Anderton
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 11:02:00
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zblip Thanks for answering. Well, the reason I ask this question is, studios use Pro Tools and I wonder, is there a reason other than the fact that Pro Tools is a standard, that engineers use it in studio? Does Sonar have an inferior over all sound due to the fact that it is a Native DAW and doesn't use physical processing cards? Is there an aspect of Sonar that is "sub standard" compared to Pro Tools etc?
I did quite a few classical projects at Maricam Studios in Santa Fe, which was based around a big $$ Pro Tools system. We used it for tracking, but it drove me nuts trying to edit (this was before Pro Tools implemented features like faster-than-real-time bounce and clip envelopes). So after tracking, I'd take the audio files back to my studio, and do the editing/mixing in Sonar. One of the CDs won an award, so I guess it was good enough You can do a pro level album in just about any DAW these days, even the lower-level ones have more power than the studios of yesteryear. I prefer Sonar because of the workflow, ease of use, and versatility - no matter what kind of project I need to do, Sonar can handle it.
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zblip
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 11:21:10
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Thanks Mr Anderton! BTW, since you are in the loop, any chances of having better video handling in Sonar in the near future?
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Anderton
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 11:35:03
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zblip Thanks Mr Anderton! BTW, since you are in the loop, any chances of having better video handling in Sonar in the near future?
First of all although I am "more in the loop" than before, I don't speak for Cakewalk and don't keep track of all future plans. That said, I'm not sure what you mean by "better video handling." If you mean Sonar becoming like Sony Vegas, I doubt it...any more than Sony Vegas is going to become a full-fledged DAW. I just don't think the current state of the art allows for a single program to incorporate two extremely complex/demanding functions. However in terms of import/export and basic video handling, X3d took a huge step forward by changing the underlying engine for handling video. This is a bit like going from 32 to 64-bit in the sense that there are some growing pains, but Sonar is now basically set up for more flexibility and easier video development going forward, and can handle more video types more seamlessly at present.
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Splat
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 11:39:58
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Sonically Sonar is no different to Pro Tools. It's your hardware that matters. The work flow isn't that different either. A DAW is a DAW really, quite boring and they all more or less do the same thing, just with different flavours. Decide what is best for you.
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Lynn
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 12:07:40
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Ask this question in the Songs forum and you'll soon hear your answer!
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Splat
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 12:12:40
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Lynn Ask this question in the Songs forum and you'll soon hear your answer!
That's the definitive answer, I can't imagine a better one...
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zblip
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 12:13:01
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Thanks this is good news since I'm looking forward to using Sonar for scoring to picture.I Love Sonar's music creation tools but the video short comings is presently a show stopper for me and I have to use Pro Tools for this reason. In Pro Tools (as you probably know): Video is shown as an clip on a track just like audio You can have mulitple video tracks (good for working with different video version of a project) You can have multiple video clips on the same track (good for producing multiple music to picture events in one single project) You can cut, paste, stretch out, crop, drag, glue, append, heal, move up or down, nudge split snap and then some the video track You can even change the video edit by cutting or adding in shots and entire scenes in a video and then bounce flawlessly to this new created video... (I've done this often for clients who had timing problems in their video, cutting or adding time to a scene etc and have the video shop replicate what I did on the online video.) Handling video isn't just the capacity to play video alongside audio. In the real world of doing publicity, movie scoring, sound design for video games etc one has got to rely on a more versatile and evolved video app. I was head sound designer for Ubisofts Batman revenge and we were receiving tones of clips, sometimes one second long, clips we had to loop for the purpose doing ambiance loops, many scenes in one single clip, that we had to cut in different individual clips etc etc... Never would I have been able to do this inside the present form of Sonar's video app. Do you agree with what I'm saying?
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Lynn
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 12:29:12
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Well, that really wasn't what your question was about. If you wanted to know if Sonar can handle video, you should have asked. To do what you want, most people use Sony Vegas in conjunction with Sonar. As with Sonar, there are several versions at different price levels to match your needs. Still, if you go to the Songs forum, you'll find people there using Sonar and Vegas together to make good quality videos. That's how I make my vids. If you really can't live without PT, then check their site out.
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Beepster
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 12:40:48
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I don't think you're gonna be able to do all THAT with new video improvements. It looks to be mostly the same set up but using a different engine so it won't be as quirky. I may be mistaken on that but what you are looking for is more in the Nuendo level and that stuff is very expensive. Your best bet is to make sure the video has already been edited to how it's going to be released and do your score based on that. That is indeed a very different question than your OP though.
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zblip
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 12:41:58
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Lynn Well, that really wasn't what your question was about. If you wanted to know if Sonar can handle video, you should have asked. To do what you want, most people use Sony Vegas in conjunction with Sonar. As with Sonar, there are several versions at different price levels to match your needs. Still, if you go to the Songs forum, you'll find people there using Sonar and Vegas together to make good quality videos. That's how I make my vids. If you really can't live without PT, then check their site out.
LOL you are right! Sorry I started out with one topic and drifted into another one sorry. :) My first topic is officially closedas for the 2nd (video) it has been an ongoing issue for me regarding Sonar..
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Beepster
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 12:48:38
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And doesn't the really high end video options in PT require some kind of expansion purchase or the top tier version of the software? Those are the types of features that tack on the extra $1000 or so to the purchase price.
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mettelus
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 12:49:48
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When I see questions like the OP it always brings to mind what Beepster mentioned... the user skill. Much of the "pro" is "proficiency" and I have seen many novice guitarists invest huge dollars in a new guitar thinking that makes them better... it does not, and never will. It is the proficiency of the user that makes the difference. Hand a proficient player a cheap perfectly tuned guitar and they make sweet music... and hand the novice a $5000 guitar and it sounds like crap. Lynn's point is on the money... SONAR is not focused on video production, it is on music... it accommodates certain workflows, but that is not its focus. There are a lot of folks who have mentioned the video workflows they use, and some have even posted tutorials on this.
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Splat
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 12:53:54
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Sonar has some video facilities but shouldn't be regarded as a video production suite.
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michaelhanson
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 13:02:34
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When I see questions like the OP it always brings to mind what Beepster mentioned... the user skill. Much of the "pro" is "proficiency" and I have seen many novice guitarists invest huge dollars in a new guitar thinking that makes them better... I have the same thought....insert skill and talent here.
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Anderton
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 13:18:19
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Another vote for Vegas+Sonar. Depending on the project I'll either create the audio first (e.g., narration for tutorials) then bring into Vegas and cut audio to video, or create the audio in Vegas and bring into Sonar for scoring. With the latter, the time-stretching DSP and acidization/REX options are helpful for coping with unforeseen changes.
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Anderton
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 13:23:12
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CakeAlexS Sonically Sonar is no different to Pro Tools. It's your hardware that matters. The work flow isn't that different either.
Agree with the first part, disagree with the second. I've run sessions on just about all DAWs and find that the workflows vary considerably depending on what you want to do. For example I always recommended Pro Tools when people wanted to transition from 2" 24-track to a DAW, as the workflow was the most similar. Reason is like a fully-realized MIDI sequencer with digital audio for those who want it. For composition, songwriting, and creating sample libraries and other content, I haven't found anything with more fluid workflow than Sonar.
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amiller
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 13:25:49
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It's not the hammer, it's the carpenter. Are YOU powerful enough to make a pro product?
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zblip
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 13:32:31
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But don't you feel Sonar is missing out on a good market share only because it refuses to upgrade the video app? I meen, Sonar is 5/10 years behind other daws in terms of video handling..
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Anderton
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 13:53:17
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☄ Helpfulby John T 2014/01/05 18:17:49
zblip But don't you feel Sonar is missing out on a good market share only because it refuses to upgrade the video app? I meen, Sonar is 5/10 years behind other daws in terms of video handling..
Well, it's not 5/10 years behind most other DAWs. Pro Tools and DP are pretty much the main DAWs for full-time audio-for-video professionals; the other DAWs are in the same general zone as Sonar with respect to video. I don't think Sonar is missing out on a good size market at all. Audio-for-video is quite specialized. The amount of effort required to make Sonar into a truly robust audio-for-video program would be significant, and I highly doubt the returns would even come close to justifying that effort. Then there's also the matter of having to persuade the relatively few audio-for-video users of PT and DP, who have been with those programs for years, to switch. DP even had a hard time getting people to switch from PT to DP on Windows. Of course it's up to Cakewalk to decide where to take the program, and I do think X3d is really making a move in the right direction when it comes to video - this opens up a lot more video opportunities for Sonar users. But if it was up to me, I would prefer that Sonar keep focusing like a laser on being a highly versatile DAW for music creation, editing, mixing, mastering, and publishing. The market for that is huge, and Sonar excels in that realm.
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Lynn
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 13:57:24
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I think Sonar knows exactly what it's doing. In order for Sonar to do what YOU want it to do, it would be a very expensive upgrade, and the end result would be a program that costs much more than it does now. If you combine the cost of Sonar and Vegas, you will get what you want in a system where most of the bugs have already been worked out, and the overall cost would be about the same as other do-it-all programs. Sonar was designed to score music to video, and not video to music. The marriage of Sonar and Vegas has been proven time and again, and if you need confirmation of their ability to work together, just check the numerous examples offered by many members of this forum. If this is not good enough for you, then be prepared to pay.
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Vab
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 14:15:12
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I wouldn't want to pay extra for video features, I just want this software for producing music, and its already quite expensive enough for the Pro version. I couldn't afford Pro Tools, and I think its great how Sonar lets you start with cheaper option and then upgrade later, so its much more friendly for low budgets and / or beginners.
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zblip
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Re: Is Sonar powerful enough to make a full fledged album?
2014/01/04 15:33:30
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What you guys say makes sense, BUT not everybody becomes a pop star. A good part of the musicians that I know started out writing songs and playing in bands and finally ended up writing jingles for TV and adds, or scoring to picture. Sonar's philosophy doesn't take in consideration that a very small portion of the musicians using there product will actually succede in becomming "famous". Take Mr Anderton, he is an accomplished musician and all, and probably dreamed (I may be totally wrong by the way its for the sake of illustrating my thoughts) of living of making music alone, and now he is working a doing many things related to music. One of the best "post rockstar dream" venues is to write for TV, Publicity and Movies. Sonar doesn't carry the video tools to perform in this market and therefore forces Sonar Users to abandon the product. That is another way of putting it..
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