AnsweredIs it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ?

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kennywtelejazz
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2014/10/16 18:16:40 (permalink)

Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ?

it seems very quiet around here regarding when and if there will be an X4 release anytime soon  ….
this has me wondering ….
I know that creative types in all walks of life often have accpomplishments that set the bar so high it almost seems as if it would be very hard or near impossible to come up with another game changer ...
 
is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features  when X 4 comes out ? ….what would it take .
 
Kenny

                   
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#1
thomasabarnes
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/16 19:27:35 (permalink)
In the past, users have expressed a desire for a gapless audio engine and staff view improvements.
 
We shall see what the deal is when X4 is released.


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Anderton
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/16 19:31:01 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Skyline_UK 2014/10/17 06:35:11
Well...I don't know how people in the Cakewalk mothership would answer, but personally, here is what I would like to see (don't get mad at me, Andrew).
 
Game-changers are cool, but also disruptive - which can be good or bad. There are still aspects of X3 I haven't fully explored. Getting all that stuff at once was great, but a bit overwhelming. I'd rather be overwhelmed than underwhelmed, but I'd also like to feel I've made maximum use of Addictive Drums 
 
A lot of people have expressed the thought that X3 is fine and since they're still learning it, they're in no hurry for X4. Reading between the lines, I interpret that "I don't really want to be disrupted right now." 
 
The X-series framework is quite mature. Sure, there could be many tweaks, but I don't think you're going to see the single-window interface going away, or the browser turning into something completely different. If it ain't broke...
 
In my ideal world, I'd look at X4 and say "Doesn't look that different from X3." But then as I worked with it, I'd find lots of surprises...cool tweaks, new features that didn't get in the way of using old features, faster/alternate ways of doing things, etc. For an example of what I mean, I think Apple did a fantastic job (bugs notwithstanding, of course) with iOS 8. It remained 100% familiar, but if you peeled off a layer, there were a zillion new things, all of them easily accessible. I think you're going to see more of this kind of thinking as platforms become more mature.
 
There's always room for improvement, but it doesn't have to hit you over the head. Actually the Browser is a good example. It was really quite basic at first, but Cakewalk quietly kept improving it. They never made a big deal about it, presumably because it wasn't a "sexy" feature, but those changes have made the difference between "Oh, I guess there's a browser" to "Wow, this is really useful!" That's why I did the browser tip in the Tip of the Week thread: I had a feeling a lot of the improvements went right past people.
 
Now imagine if that happened across an entire program...that's what I'd like to see. Essentially, better and more innovative ways to do what we're doing now that make Sonar even better for music creation. Yeah, and new features too  And a hovercraft...
 

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Anderton
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/16 19:42:12 (permalink)
thomasabarnes
In the past, users have expressed a desire for a gapless audio engine and staff view improvements.
 



Frankly, I think the notation train has left the station in general. The more recent programs like Studio One, Live, and Reason don't do it at all. Avid had an opportunity when they bought Sibelius to fold hardcore notation into Pro Tools but did a lighter version instead. Cubase is still heavy on notation and that probably won't go away, given Yamaha's interest in the traditional educational market. But I just can't see a greatly improved staff view in Sonar making much of a difference in terms of attracting new users, and while there are existing users who would love Sonar's gestalt bundled with a great staff view, it seems to be a minority viewpoint compared to the user base as a whole. I could be wrong, of course.

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gswitz
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/16 19:51:52 (permalink)
Officer Magic
"I don't really want to be disrupted right now."

 
I myself LOVE being disrupted.

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Anderton
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/16 20:00:09 (permalink)
gswitz
Officer Magic
"I don't really want to be disrupted right now."

 
I myself LOVE being disrupted.




Duly note and approved 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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mixmkr
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/16 20:16:41 (permalink)
I don't know if it's possible, but with more and more doing video, myself included (of course my reply!), having a more fully featured video angle would be really nice, so the audio could stay in Sonar, while being able to edit video as well.  IOW, more than one video tracks, and of course the basic stuff like transitions, basic FX...  like the stuff in Sony's movie suite or a Vegas Lite.  It wouldn't have to be really full featured, but a bit beyond what they have now.

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#7
John
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/16 20:48:48 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby thomasabarnes 2014/10/16 21:23:17
I'm always pleasantly surprised with new versions of Sonar. I have all of them.  It is fantastic that a program as old as Sonar is still bringing smiles to people with each new version. I have a great deal of respect for the developers at CW for the joy they never seem to fail to provide.  
 
X3 is the finest version so far. X4 will have a hard time beating it at the game of being a great DAW. But, lets see what the Bakers come up with. I guarantee it will be fantastic!
 
I do hope Mr. Anderton is wrong about notation, though.  

Best
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mixmkr
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/16 21:42:26 (permalink)
I agree John.  Certain lack of items like the vari-speed, etc...  are sooo far from being show stoppers, at least for me, I really scratch my head why people use other programs.  Granted there's a ton of features I don't use, probably will never use, and a boatload more of those I don't even know about.  But comparing to other popular "multitrack" programs, it seems like such a winner.  I'd hate to have to be a really *pro* studio and *have* to use ProTools, for instance.  I'm sure many others could point out what else is missing, but the fact that with my new-ish StudioCat computer and X3e, it all works flawless.  I have YET to crash...and am not afraid to say it...or that "knock on wood" stuff.

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#9
Splat
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/16 22:42:21 (permalink)
I'm hoping for a well rounded iterative release. Maybe something that doesn't scream at you buy!!!!, but something after the fullness of light set upon it, is proven to be a quality product. In other words no gimmicks just reliability, great workflow, no BS, and rock and roll. Perhaps if you like an ultra service pack with fairy dust on top, maybe a sensible UI redesign so it looks new.

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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/16 23:10:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jbow 2014/10/19 11:56:46
Yes,i will concede that "game changer " may have not been the best descriptive choice , please feel free to disregard that and substitute a more appropriate analogy if you choose .
 
Yeah, I'm very sincere about my question  ,
i suppose that is due to the fact that I have been "disrupted " in just about everything I thought i knew or had even hoped to learn at this point about SONAR and music production …
X3 has forced me to take a step back and reevaluate what it's gonna take over here on my end to gain some music production chops  ….
there is no doubt in my mind that SONAR hasn't peaked …I'm sure it will continue to grow and evolve ...
i sure hope I can do the same and keep up . 
 
for now I'm gonna read and listen to you guys….I'm getting a lot out of what your saying  
 
thanks, 
 
Kenny
 
 
 
 
 
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2014/10/17 00:34:41

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good .
The internet is nothing more than a glorified real time cartoon we all star in.
I play a "Gibson " R 8 Les Paul Cherry Sunburst .
The Love of my Life is an American Bulldog Named Duke . I'm currently running Cakewalk By BandLab as my DAW .
 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kennywtelejazz/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1
 
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#11
mettelus
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 03:25:02 (permalink)
X3 came out the chute as an impressively stable release (biggest win) with some cool extras and features... After reading a lot of posts, I tend to agree that "perfecting" what already exists would be more enticing (to me) than something "drastically new." There are so many "workflow niceties" that would make SONAR snuff the competition... they "exist" already, just not streamlined (per se) yet.

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#12
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 04:43:56 (permalink)
Tempo mapping tools that don't routinely break and say tempo out of range would be nice.
 
That would seem like a game changer.


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Skyline_UK
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 06:54:56 (permalink)
I agree with Craig's initial sentiment.
I remember back in the day when spreadsheet programs broke new ground all the time and every massive innovation was very welcome. Now a spreadsheet program is a spreadsheet program. Fully matured and an everyday tool. DAWs are reaching that point, and no amount of bundling other apps and baubles will alter that.
 
If I had to wish for one thing it would be to have the ability to alter tempos quickly and easily with perfect audio transition. There's been threads here about this but to achieve it at the moment requires a lot of palaver. (Even a simplification of Audio Snap would be nice - every time I try to use that I give up due to its techy abstruseness.) I'm sure DAWs of the future will have this as a simple function.  Actually, Band In a Box has been able to do this for a long time now with its audio clip based RealTracks; no fuss, just alter the tempo(s) at the bar(s) required and everything else is under the hood.

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MandolinPicker
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 09:16:23 (permalink)
What I worry about with the 'new and improved' fever that seems to grip software development is that it totally turns the users off from using it. I use to do a lot of computer programming back in the days of Windows 3.1, 95 and 98. It was all hobby stuff, but it was fun and enjoyable. The go to program for the hobby folks back then Visual Basic, reaching its high point at VB6. Then Microsoft announced that a new and improved version was on the way and everyone was excited. Then came VB Net. It was not at all like VB6. For the hobbyist, it was a disaster. Now VB was designed for the 'professional' programmer. Well, that shut the door in my face. I simply didn't have the time to devote to such a new paradigm in programming. Today, Microsoft gives away VB and yet it still has never got back to where it was. The types of programs that we use to create simply aren't there. And the folks at MS complain that there aren't enough developers anymore.
 
Sometimes I see Sonar in the same light as VB6. Stable, very useful for both hobbyist and professional. Yet the drive to be more 'professional' can drive the hobbyist out. I sincerely hope that doesn't happen with Sonar. It would be a shame if it did.

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#15
Guitarpima
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 09:36:30 (permalink)
I wouldn't know about X3. It physically hurts my eyes. If you would like to know how much, get in front of your car at night with your high beams on and stare into the light. If it were not for Sonarmods, I would still be on 8.5.
 
Sadly, I had a project I had to use X3 because when I first got it, I opened the project in X3 and going back to X2, it would just stop at measure 40. I had to finish it in X3. TBH, I don't think X3 is any better than X2. Visually, thanks to Sonarmods, X2 is much better than X3.

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#16
Greeny
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 09:46:35 (permalink)
+1 for a steady improvement over a radical change.
 
A nip here a tuck there, maybe a new headline instrument and/or effects plugin and I'll be happily handing over the upgrade fee :)
#17
lawp
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 10:15:44 (permalink)
regarding improving performance, there's a list of known issues in x3 that says "yes, performance can be improved" http://forum.cakewalk.com/Outstanding-Issues-as-of-X3E-UNOFFICIAL-m3009969.aspx

sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
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Anderton
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 10:32:59 (permalink)
MandolinPicker
Sometimes I see Sonar in the same light as VB6. Stable, very useful for both hobbyist and professional. Yet the drive to be more 'professional' can drive the hobbyist out. I sincerely hope that doesn't happen with Sonar. It would be a shame if it did.

 
I don't think you have to worry about that. Sonar has added lots of "professional" features (e.g., switching the underlying video platform to something with greater future potential), Audio Random Access, effects chains, 64-bit audio engine, etc.) without impacting the program's ease of use. Cakewalk is always concerned about streamlining workflow, which benefits any user. Fortunately, they also know the difference between "simplification" and "dumbing down," so I doubt you'd see a replay of the Final Cut Pro X scenario. 

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dubdisciple
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 10:50:03 (permalink)
Guitarpima
I wouldn't know about X3. It physically hurts my eyes. If you would like to know how much, get in front of your car at night with your high beams on and stare into the light. If it were not for Sonarmods, I would still be on 8.5.
 
Sadly, I had a project I had to use X3 because when I first got it, I opened the project in X3 and going back to X2, it would just stop at measure 40. I had to finish it in X3. TBH, I don't think X3 is any better than X2. Visually, thanks to Sonarmods, X2 is much better than X3.


I'm just curious if you are being literal or figurative when you say it hurts your eyes. I understand that grays with the some tinting ability is not for everyone and that there will never be consensus on what looks best. I was just curious how something as neutral the world of color as gray physically hurts you. Do you have a condition it aggravates? If so, I feel compassion because that most be a horrible thing to endure.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 10:50:54 (permalink)
X4 may finally implement the coveted instant talent plugin
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Anderton
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 12:39:43 (permalink)
lawp
regarding improving performance, there's a list of known issues in x3 that says "yes, performance can be improved" http://forum.cakewalk.com/Outstanding-Issues-as-of-X3E-UNOFFICIAL-m3009969.aspx



And don't think that hasn't been helpful...I think it helped inspire the new Problem Reports forum, so that kind of information could be consolidated and not get lost in the main Sonar forum.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Anderton
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 12:42:28 (permalink)
dubdisciple
Guitarpima
I wouldn't know about X3. It physically hurts my eyes. If you would like to know how much, get in front of your car at night with your high beams on and stare into the light. If it were not for Sonarmods, I would still be on 8.5.
 
Sadly, I had a project I had to use X3 because when I first got it, I opened the project in X3 and going back to X2, it would just stop at measure 40. I had to finish it in X3. TBH, I don't think X3 is any better than X2. Visually, thanks to Sonarmods, X2 is much better than X3.


I'm just curious if you are being literal or figurative when you say it hurts your eyes.



Yes, he does have a physical, visual issue - it's not a matter of personal taste. Fortunately I find the X look easier on the eyes but I understand what he means; of the two Vegas default "looks," I find one really hard to use and the other much easier. If the only option was the hard to use one, it would be a problem for me.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#23
AT
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 12:57:02 (permalink)
I like new toys, of course.  So whatever reverb (new stereo convolution?) or new synth would be fine.  Flyout for all the prochannel modules (that is a small but still significant change).
 
My most fervent wish is for a more live environment for the matrix.  Building on the matrix, but complete control over mixing functions for each button and channel.  Basically, something like the iPad Scrathpad built-in.  A 16 x 16 grid or something, with a linear time line on top of it to place longer bits (and keep track of where one is). 
 
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#24
musicroom
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 13:13:45 (permalink)
@AT + 1 
 
I would definitely use the matrix more if it had some of the capabilities you mention.

 
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#25
dubdisciple
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 13:35:48 (permalink)
Anderton
dubdisciple
Guitarpima
I wouldn't know about X3. It physically hurts my eyes. If you would like to know how much, get in front of your car at night with your high beams on and stare into the light. If it were not for Sonarmods, I would still be on 8.5.

Sadly, I had a project I had to use X3 because when I first got it, I opened the project in X3 and going back to X2, it would just stop at measure 40. I had to finish it in X3. TBH, I don't think X3 is any better than X2. Visually, thanks to Sonarmods, X2 is much better than X3.


I'm just curious if you are being literal or figurative when you say it hurts your eyes.



Yes, he does have a physical, visual issue - it's not a matter of personal taste. Fortunately I find the X look easier on the eyes but I understand what he means; of the two Vegas default "looks," I find one really hard to use and the other much easier. If the only option was the hard to use one, it would be a problem for me.


Thanks. I was not trying to be sarcastic but asked to get clarity. I would never mock on something like that since I suffer from physical eye disorder myself.
#26
Anderton
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 13:43:26 (permalink)
dubdisciple
Thanks. I was not trying to be sarcastic but asked to get clarity.



That was clear to me. I thought I would answer so Guitarpima didn't have to explain.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#27
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 14:46:03 (permalink)
Better envelope node selection functionality. Make selecting a node as easy as it is in Adobe Illustrator or Discreet 3D Studio Max instead of the frustration of hunting, pecking, and accidentally nudging.


#28
Mystic38
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 14:50:58 (permalink)
I was not going to originally comment in this vein but since a few users alluded to Live type capabilities,  i will add this...
 
Just think ... Live 8 suite was >$800, had only 32 bit audio processing and was limited to a single display screen..yet sold in the boatloads!. (i mean wtf..lol).  Clearly they are providing what the market needs, and needs so badly that they can charge a huge premium for what is otherwise an average DAW.
 
So to me, as a studio tool i think Live is so-so, and much less capable than Sonar x3, but Live pretty much dominates in every forum and user group i participate due solely to its live play capabilities.. so, whether we like it or not, those are the messages from the market and users... cos here is the rub.. if users HAVE to buy Ableton, the chances that they also buy Sonar, or keep upgrading Sonar are seriously less.
 
So +1 for gapless audio, improved audiosnap, improved matrix, a built in looper, 2 way controller communication so that i can use Launchpad with Matrix (and see the lights work), and anything else that lets Sonar be a real time live performance tool.

HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors
Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
#29
Guitarpima
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Re: Is it even possible to top X 3's performance and features when X 4 comes out ? 2014/10/17 15:55:50 (permalink)
I appreciate that Craig. I have Retinitis Pigmentosa and it's a degenerative disease. In the last 2 years I've noticed significant loss as I used to be able to pay attention to where I'm going much better than I do now. I decided that, with my cane, to just move where I need to and hopefully people get out of my way. Being so large, WWE wrestler size although I'm not as fit, they usually do move out of the way. ;-) Being from the Midwest, I'm proficient as mosey.
 
I don't plan on updating anymore if colors don't come back.

Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy.
 
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#30
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