a completly new DAW with bugs and unperfect features

 
Except it's not, it's the same old DAW with a new skin, new bugs, a bunch of old bugs and a new working practice.
 
I'm sure my messages keep getting eaten by this forum?!
 
Anyway I think Cake could do well to take a leaf from Debian and issue X1 as 'Unstable' and '8.5.3' as 'testing / stable' (have a look at the debian release schedule if you're wondering what I'm on about.
 
Child

Yes, Pragi, there is no doubt that over time X1 will grow into an excellent product. Many of us are simply skipping this version and will wait and see what X2 brings to the table next year. In the meantime, 8.5 is stable enough and we know its shortcomings, so it will do just fine until then.

Thanks again Bit! Eloquent to the last.  
 
Yes I was being a bit terse, but I'm not wrong!  
 
If past form is anything to go by it could take 9 versions to make it feature complete, with a large handfull of snaggy bugs, and the direction of travel will change. Don't get me wrong I have no issue with the idea of a better / different workflow, enhanced interface, whatever.
 
What irks me is the starting something new without finishing the old stuff. I'm quite happy to take 8.5 as feature complete, I don't need it to be able to do anything else: the building is up and I'm happy it's got the right number of rooms, but there are still snags; that bit of skirting needs sanding and painting, there's a bit of filler needs to go up behind that cornice etc etc Feels like Cake have leapt right past this bit and have started bringing in curtains and furniture.   One thing I gotta give 'em is that they knew most folk were lying when they said 'no more plugs' I'm sure most people at least +1'd that sentiment at some point, but look how rapt they are with the PC (!?) I wasn't and I still can't see the point of PC, I'm particularly put out that they've queered the pitch to make it appear like a draw for folk by pricing the Studio version upgrade the same as Producer.   Anyway, no point crying over spilt milk, we'll not get a 'finished' version of Sonar N.N and the jury remains out as to whether we'll ever see a 'finished' version of Sonar X.N
 
Child

All I wanted was better automation editing features, which I would have classified as a "workflow enhancement". I guess they did grant a small nod to that request. But you still can't scale or invert envelopes.

I wouldn't call the automation editing improvements a 'small nod'. I think it's the best thing in X1. No, you still can't scale or invert envelopes, and that would be handy. But the whole way of working with automation is a huge improvement in X1 ( In my opinion, of course.) --once you wrap your head around it, which took me a while.  It's like learning a new DAW, you kinda have to forget most of how you used to work in Sonar.

But while automation was two steps forward, other things are two steps back. As I work with X1 I have many moments of "wow, that is so much easier/better!" and then just as many moments of "wow, I can't believe they did that, that's terrible!"

So if all you wanted was better automation editing, it's in there. But maybe all the other peculiarities of X1 will outweigh that. I'm still on the fence about that.

I also remember wondering what they all really meant by that, or if everyone even knew what it was they were asking for.

 
I think people know what it means to them but as the CV vs TV thread, and a recent discussion I had with someone who wanted a separate 'audio editor' window (rather that using the track pane as it is now), have shown is that there are almost as many 'workflows' as there are users.
 
Within that there are (at least) 2 tiers of 'workflow issues' things like the fact that V-Vocal is decidedly unpredictable, in it's performance, is one sort and then there are less obvious things like the hiding of features in Audiosnap, the difficulty of coordinating envelope colours with their corresponding track control and (my pet favourite) the status of a sends upon insertion. Remember the palava when they changed the post split selection behaviour? It was simple enough to resolve (just make it user configurable) IMO that should be held as a benchmark decision as to how to make a better daw, everyone ended up happy!
 
For me the whole concept of a studio in a box makes it seem rather toyish. I like the clear distinction between the DAW (tracking, editing, mixing (in the sense of levels, pans and routing) and the production tools (plugins etc). Hardcoding the PC in to the DAW is a retrograde step imo.
 
Child

8.5.3 was great & I was really looking forward to 9....


I guess the only 9 I'll have interest in - is that of Pro Tools...

8.5.3 was great & I was really looking forward to 9....

Sonar X1 IS Sonar 9 for anyone who knows how to count. 

Just be forewarned that any new DAW you move to is going to have a huge learning curve as well. I was one of the lucky ones that have had no major problems with X1. But the learning curve was substantial to say the least. And if your thinking of jumping to PT9. STOP! My best friend has been beating his brains against the screen to get his"Industry Standard" DAW to stop crashing ever since it came out. He is currently working at my place with X1 and loves it!

When I came back to cake, it was like coming home from one long terrible vacation.

i,m the only non-protools studio in the area and am constantly being told i would get more work and better results if i switched to Protools!
fortunately i am busy enough and have had no complaints from the mastering studio.
what gets lost in these comparisons are:
good artist-good mic/placement-good preamp-good 24bit wav
the rest(workflows and gui`s) are just a means to an end (to me)
(unless you are "creating" music:midi/synths/samples).
i`d prefer a Tesla but my old diesel Hilux is unbreakable and repairable.
I appreciate planned obsolescence is accepted business practice but at what point do you say this or that platform is acceptable and sufficient?

Chris in Indy


I think CW is heading down a one way path with no way to turn back. I don't know if it happened when Roland came aboard, but it has been coming at an ever accelerating rate.

They have killed off several great products (including P5v2) and have got to be losing market share. I tried X1 (a friends machine) and didn't like it enough to make me want to buy it. I have been with Cake products since the beginning, and I feel an end coming soon.

Maybe they plan on quitting audio software all together, and opening up a "skateboard shop" or something. 

the end???..lol...its the second best selling daw in the world

its the second best selling daw in the world

SOLVED-i should buy the cheapest version of protools available so i can say i,m "protools equipped" but choose not to use it!

Hi, guys - back for my usual monthly look-see.
Still using reaper and getting to like it more and more, despite the workflow being non-cake!
Or rather non-Sonar.

Those of you with long memories will recall I jumped ship at the time of X1, although I had been flirting with Reaper and several others for a while before that.
The ONLY reason I initially ditched all my years of learning and expenditure on the Cake line was performance related. I was getting problems with dropout and noise on my audio recordings with 8.5.3 which I was unable to resolve.
And with the introduction of X1 signalling the end of product life for 8, I decided the time had come to jump ship.

IF Cake had done the right thing and carried on fixing at least some of the longer term bugs by issuing some sort of final maintenance update, I think trhey would have lost a lot fewer of us with the introduction of X1.

BY now I for one would prolly have gone for the upgrade, but in the light of their failure (judging by the threads here and in the X1 forum) to address long term issues already present in Sonar, why should anyone place any reliance on them doing the housekeeping that should have been done years ago?

And of course they aren`t about to release the source in order that we can fix it within the community....

evansmalley

webbs hill studio

its the second best selling daw in the world

SOLVED-i should buy the cheapest version of protools available so i can say i,m "protools equipped" but choose not to use it!

Absolutely- and just try getting Avid customer support on the phone... doesn't exist. Cakewalk is actually far better as a company- no comparison.

Actually phone support does exist for ProTools - you just have to buy a support code for it now. That's why the DUC is such a good resource - costs nothing and there's a LOT of very knowledgeable people on there.

I'm staying with Sonar 8.3.1 as 8.5 does nothing I need and the hardware requirements for X1 outstrip the computing power I have on my pc (and no, I won't Bootcamp my Mac machines - they stay running OSX 10.6.6 Snow Leopard). And I'm not about ready to buy another Winbox either - I've had my fill of Microsnot os's. Which is why my other daws are Digital Performer and Protools. And right now my work splits pretty much between the 3 daws with less and less time spent in Sonar as I'm just using that to finish ongoing projects.

Since X1 came out this forum has certainly died. There are more and more unanswered threads and most might get only 1 or 2 replies. Some people even come back unanswered and have solved their problem alone. I am glad at this point not to have to read through all the x1 posts as they will mean nothing to me. Every time I go and look to see what's up it's seems to be more of a complaint department then a help forum.
A kid came up to me the other day as I was recording a  performance with my laptop and asked which software I was using.
I said I'm using Sonar. He replied, "oh isn't that the one that's all buggy and nobody can get it to work? "
I told him no, I'm using Sonar 7 and it's very stable.
He said he would like to try it and I had to tell him it's long gone. Of course he said , "oh' I see it all the time." ( guess where) ..I  see this a bit of an issue. Why not sell the older versions at lower price points? I think most would choose a legit copy of software if the price was right. Reaper is doing very well with this approach. I see it growing into the mainstream very quickly over the next year. 
I'm of the camp to stay with Version 7 until the day it lo longer runs on my OS.

Try P5 if you want discontinued and no action at the forum.  But hey, I still use it.