Red4Con1
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Is membership program
Is membership program a beta program?
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Red4Con1
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/14 22:50:15
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After membership ends we would have a retail product if I go for another membership would I still have a retail product?
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scook
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/14 22:55:23
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Red4Con1
Is membership program a beta program?
no Red4Con1
After membership ends we would have a retail product if I go for another membership would I still have a retail product?
You will receive a non-expiring license by making a single payment in full or 12 consecutive monthly payments For more info about membership see http://www.cakewalk.com/P...s/SONAR/Membership#FAQ
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 07:45:19
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☼ Best Answerby Red4Con1 2015/05/15 09:53:22
After completing 12 consecutive months of monthly membership OR buying an annual membership you own the product (i.e. it won't expire). After that point if you start a new membership cycle the process repeats.
Note that when you start a new cycle if its monthly, then you will be subject to the same expiration terms if you don't complete 12 consecutive months. If you choose to discontinue with the new membership cycle for any reason however, you will still own the prior version you paid for so you will be able to roll back to it at any time.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 08:57:48
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Does that mean if you do 23 payments, you end up rolling back your status after 12 payments? I thought the idea was that you needed AT LEAST 12 consecutive payments and then it would stick...
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Anderton
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 09:09:26
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Sanderxpander
Does that mean if you do 23 payments, you end up rolling back your status after 12 payments? I thought the idea was that you needed AT LEAST 12 consecutive payments and then it would stick...
12 consecutive payments cause that year's cycle to "stick." So after 23 payments, if you quit, you go back to how it was after 12 payments. OTOH I can't imagine someone not making that one extra payment to get the second year's updates activated... Another way to think of it is after 12 payments, you've paid for the yearly update so it's yours.
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subtlearts
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 09:10:59
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No. After 12 payments (or one up front full year's payment) you will 'own' the license for everything up to the end of that 12 months, regardless of what happens after that. If you pay 23 months and then, for some reason which is hard for me to comprehend just now, decide to stop short of the last one to make 24, you would roll back to the license as of the first 12 months you completed. If you complete the 24th month, you have the license to that point in perpetuity. If you continue another 5 months but then stop paying, your license rolls back to the 24 month point. This really has been made abundantly clear many times over at this point. EDIT: beaten to it by Craig. So it goes...
post edited by subtlearts - 2015/05/15 09:17:01
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Karyn
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 09:15:22
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Sanderxpander
Does that mean if you do 23 payments, you end up rolling back your status after 12 payments? I thought the idea was that you needed AT LEAST 12 consecutive payments and then it would stick...
It is not possible to make 23 payments. You buy your update and get a year's membership, you choose to pay in 1 lump sum up front OR 12 monthly payments. At the end of the year you choose to either pay for another year (in 1 lump sum OR 12 monthly payments) or not... If you choose monthly payment option and fail to keep up the payments, Sonar reverts back to the last COMPLETED annual cycle.
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BobF
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 09:25:53
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The explanations don't sound right folks.
Regardless of whether or not part of it is paid up front, once 12 consecutive is reached and continues, the "member" should keep whatever they have up to the last completed month's payment.
As an example:
I pay for 23 consecutive months, then stop my membership. The last 11 months worth of updates should NOT be rolled back to the 12 month point. Once you complete 12 and continue, that 12 months completed becomes a rolling 12 months.
Remember there is no longer a significant annual event. People can start/stop at any point throughout any year.
Please rethink your answers on this - you're going to scare people away if you get it confused now. 12 months is the minimum for the consecutive months requirement, but this is not being sold in 12 month lots!
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Karyn
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 09:38:27
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BobF 12 months is the minimum for the consecutive months requirement, but this is not being sold in 12 month lots!
That is correct, it's being sold in annual lots. You can pay for each annual lot as a lump sum or 12 instalments. (unless a Cakewalk employee, ie. Noel, says otherwise) It is not a rolling subscription. It is annual membership with a start and end date.
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pwalpwal
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 09:59:44
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so it would be possible to make 23 payments but you would only "end up with" the version after payment #12 as you didn't complete the second annual membership payments...
that is, it is not a rolling scheme after the first 12 months/1 year of payments, it is still an annual event but the user can decide on which month that event occurs - users buy membership in 12 month chunks, you keep the license for the last completed chunk
that is, you can only buy 1 thing - a 12 month membership -but you can "spread the cost" via the 12 monthly payment scheme
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bapu
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 09:59:58
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Way back in January a baker (I think it was Keith) said that if you made 15 consecutive payments you own a license for what was at the end of month 15.
So 23 monthly payments by that baker's logic means that you own a license for what was at month 23 because you had completed (the last) 12 consecutive payments.
This premise was based on monthly payments ONLY, and should not be confused with a purchase of an annual payment and then followed by 11 monthly payments. That IIRC is an entirely different story.
This may have changed since Noel has offered a different premise than Keith(?).
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pwalpwal
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 10:01:02
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pwalpwal
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 10:05:46
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it's a shame these are so strictly user forums that cakewalk don't read them and so can't clarify such confusion 
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Karyn
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 10:09:07
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I'm pretty sure that if you paid 23 times and then stopped that Cake would let you keep everything upto your last payment, but I don't think it's actually designed that way....
I'm happy to be proved wrong on this issue though.
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Karyn
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 10:10:28
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pwalpwal
it's a shame these are so strictly user forums that cakewalk don't read them and so can't clarify such confusion
They do read them, just not as often as we'd like because they're busy doing other things.
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pwalpwal
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 10:15:56
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yeah i know, i just don't understand why their own forums don't count more/higher as things that need doing - i mean, what are "marketing" so busy beavering away at right now?
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BobF
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 10:22:04
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bapu
Way back in January a baker (I think it was Keith) said that if you made 15 consecutive payments you own a license for what was at the end of month 15.
So 23 monthly payments by that baker's logic means that you own a license for what was at month 23 because you had completed (the last) 12 consecutive payments.
This premise was based on monthly payments ONLY, and should not be confused with a purchase of an annual payment and then followed by 11 monthly payments. That IIRC is an entirely different story.
This may have changed since Noel has offered a different premise than Keith(?).
I don't believe 12 up front followed by 11 monthly should be a different story than 23 monthly and I don't believe this is being sold in 12 months lots. The 12 months is rolling ... it's really simple. Really.
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subtlearts
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 11:04:04
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I guess the fundamental issue is the first year - otherwise, someone can opt in on a monthly basis, pay one month (or two, if they're feeling generous) and walk away with a perpetual license to the full product that others pay full price to. This obviously has to be avoided, so the 12-month minimum for 'keeping' a license makes sense. I suppose it also makes sense that if, having cleared the 12-month hurdle, one stops paying after 15 or 21 months or whatever, the license should be frozen at that point, not roll back to arbitrary 12-month increments.
However, what if I 'own' a license up to the 12 month point (which I do) and then decide to only pay a month occasionally here and there if an update is released that I like the sound of? Is this fair? Say I don't renew my license when the initial 12 month cycle finishes, then wait in the wings, and in month 17 there's a really hot update, so I pay for a month and then cancel again. Should I 'own' the license up to that point? How is this accounted for?
Which is why, though it seems on some levels 'unfair', I actually think that as a policy, the arbitrary 12-month thing is cleaner. It avoids all of these questions, at the expense of being a bit hard. If you want to opt back in at 17 months because they released a really cool feature (which I hope they do!) then if you want to *keep* that feature for the long term, you have to play ball and pay another 12 months. Or a year up front.
It still allows me to consider my options at any point, and decide if I am up for the full year deal, or if I want to lay low for a bit and cruise with what I have, and jump in at a later date. But I can't jump in and out and expect to keep the whole shebang every time I do. Makes sense to me!
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Kamikaze
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 11:25:02
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Say they create a tool called the 'Boom bosher infiltration divider' let's call it BBID for short (this is hypathetical clearly) that is a core devise like Drum Replacer will be. They implement this in February 2016. My first year is paid until Jan 2016, but I'm not interested in the BBID, so I stick with what I have. Then in March the Correlation Matrix revisionistictaor CMR is available, now cleary every one can see the value in a CMR, so I purchase again. So the BBID is not content, it's core, do I then get this, it's going to be listed as a feature, as a core item is it included and I miss out on the Anderton introspective Emulator FX that were also in the February 2016 release, which is content. Or do I miss out because I didn't sign up.
Now jump forward to 2018 and I'm a platinum user with a few gaps, if I still get these core item, then fine, but if I don't, are we going to have thread saying, 'Ahh Kami, you should use the BBID to solve your problem' but I say I can't I have Platinum, but I had a gap there and I am facepalming my hand red. In order to get it, what would I do, would this now be listed as add on from the Sonar Store. Are we going to end up with users with a hodge podge of Platinum core features.
No need to respond to this, just writing some thoughts down
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 11:32:37
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Wait, so If I take a year off from creating music in 2016 and do not pay my monthly subscription and then in 2017 I start backup again - I will not be allowed to get the stuff that was released in 2016??
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Red4Con1
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 11:33:09
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Is each member annual membership start and end date the same?
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BobF
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 11:33:47
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subtlearts
I guess the fundamental issue is the first year - otherwise, someone can opt in on a monthly basis, pay one month (or two, if they're feeling generous) and walk away with a perpetual license to the full product that others pay full price to. This obviously has to be avoided, so the 12-month minimum for 'keeping' a license makes sense. I suppose it also makes sense that if, having cleared the 12-month hurdle, one stops paying after 15 or 21 months or whatever, the license should be frozen at that point, not roll back to arbitrary 12-month increments.
However, what if I 'own' a license up to the 12 month point (which I do) and then decide to only pay a month occasionally here and there if an update is released that I like the sound of? Is this fair? Say I don't renew my license when the initial 12 month cycle finishes, then wait in the wings, and in month 17 there's a really hot update, so I pay for a month and then cancel again. Should I 'own' the license up to that point? How is this accounted for?
Which is why, though it seems on some levels 'unfair', I actually think that as a policy, the arbitrary 12-month thing is cleaner. It avoids all of these questions, at the expense of being a bit hard. If you want to opt back in at 17 months because they released a really cool feature (which I hope they do!) then if you want to *keep* that feature for the long term, you have to play ball and pay another 12 months. Or a year up front.
It still allows me to consider my options at any point, and decide if I am up for the full year deal, or if I want to lay low for a bit and cruise with what I have, and jump in at a later date. But I can't jump in and out and expect to keep the whole shebang every time I do. Makes sense to me!
Yes, consecutive is the key as I understand it.
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Anderton
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 11:38:38
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☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2015/05/15 12:57:48
pwalpwal
yeah i know, i just don't understand why their own forums don't count more/higher as things that need doing - i mean, what are "marketing" so busy beavering away at right now?
As I write this, they are in Nashville giving a presentation to Gibson Brands' business development managers about SONAR's membership program, how it impacts stores, future plans, the state of sales, the growth of downloads compared to brick and mortar, etc. etc. If they're reading the forums right now I would be somewhat dismayed.  That presentation is really important. I've even been working on it with them to some degree over the past week. Yesterday, they were involved in writing the description of the upcoming features for the May release, working on banner ads for several web sites...and there are lots of other things going on I am not at liberty to discuss.
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Anderton
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 11:42:25
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About the 12 month thing...I will point out this thread to the Bakers so they can correct me if I'm wrong, BUT THIS IS NOT A SUBSCRIPTION PROGRAM WHERE YOU RENT A NEW RELEASE EACH MONTH! The monthly payments are an ALTERNATIVE to paying the upgrade cost upfront (which of course, you can still do) for something that you get to keep. If you do not make 12 payments, you have not paid for the cost of the upgrade, so you don't get to keep it.
If you spread out the payments on a couch over 12 months and stop paying after 11 months, they will take away the entire couch, not leave you with 11/12ths of it.
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Karyn
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 11:44:11
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alewgro
Wait, so If I take a year off from creating music in 2016 and do not pay my monthly subscription and then in 2017 I start backup again - I will not be allowed to get the stuff that was released in 2016??
You would get all the core program stuff. For example, Vocalsync is part of the core program. You would not get stuff that was included as "other extras" unless it was still included at the time you bought back in. There are plenty of things that Cakewalk have included in the past which are not included now. If you buy now, you don't get those things..
post edited by Karyn - 2015/05/15 11:50:41
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BobF
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 12:07:47
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Anderton
About the 12 month thing...I will point out this thread to the Bakers so they can correct me if I'm wrong, BUT THIS IS NOT A SUBSCRIPTION PROGRAM WHERE YOU RENT A NEW RELEASE EACH MONTH! The monthly payments are an ALTERNATIVE to paying the upgrade cost upfront (which of course, you can still do) for something that you get to keep. If you do not make 12 payments, you have not paid for the cost of the upgrade, so you don't get to keep it.
If you spread out the payments on a couch over 12 months and stop paying after 11 months, they will take away the entire couch, not leave you with 11/12ths of it.
I don't disagree with that Craig. However, if you continue for another 11 months after the initial 12, regardless of how you paid for the initial 12, and as long as there are no lapses, you will keep all 23 months if you stop. At that point in time, you HAVE paid for the previous 12 months. By continuing beyond the initial 12 months you have a rolling 12 months of paid membership.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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Karyn
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 12:14:45
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
After completing 12 consecutive months of monthly membership OR buying an annual membership you own the product (i.e. it won't expire). After that point if you start a new membership cycle the process repeats.
Note that when you start a new cycle if its monthly, then you will be subject to the same expiration terms if you don't complete 12 consecutive months. If you choose to discontinue with the new membership cycle for any reason however, you will still own the prior version you paid for so you will be able to roll back to it at any time.
BobF if you continue for another 11 months after the initial 12, regardless of how you paid for the initial 12, and as long as there are no lapses, you will keep all 23 months if you stop. At that point in time, you HAVE paid for the previous 12 months. By continuing beyond the initial 12 months you have a rolling 12 months of paid membership.
According to Noel, and also the way I understand it, you can not make 23 payments. You buy a 1 year membership. At the end of that year you can buy another 1 year membership. You can pay in 12 monthly instalments, then another 12 monthly instalments. If you stop in the second year after 11 instalments, then you have not paid for the second year's membership as you agreed you would.
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 12:23:27
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What is so difficult to understand about this?
It's an annual fee with the option to pay monthly.
Guess what happens if you don't pay your full 12 months?
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subtlearts
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Re: Is membership program
2015/05/15 12:24:20
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alewgro
Wait, so If I take a year off from creating music in 2016 and do not pay my monthly subscription and then in 2017 I start backup again - I will not be allowed to get the stuff that was released in 2016??
Core features, yes - they will stay with the program as it develops. *Content* that was specific to people paying during 2016, no. That's how I understand it anyway.
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