Joad
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/11 23:10:17
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Beepster
I am a huuuuuuuuge Dead Kennedy's fan. They are pretty much my favorite band Love the Kennedy's.. also bands like MDC, Flipper, Coffin Break, just good rockin bands. i like what Batsbrew said about the emotion of the performance is more important than the quality. well said.....
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Beepster
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/11 23:20:22
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CSB...
The very FIRST lick I EVER learned/played/figured out on guitar was the main melody from the "Beverly Hills Cop" theme song. I was 10 or 11 and they had this totally mangled El Degas acoustic guit with three rusted out strings on it, just unbearable action and kind of smelly/moldy. They essentially had it out as decoration.
I went a little autistic on it so the next time I visited they just gave it to me and that was that.
So in a way the DX-7 (which I'm 99% sure is the synth used for the BHC theme song) played an integral role in me becoming the hopeless guitar addict I am.
or sumthin' like that.
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Beepster
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/11 23:33:12
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Mojo Risen
Beepster
I am a huuuuuuuuge Dead Kennedy's fan. They are pretty much my favorite band
Love the Kennedy's.. also bands like MDC, Flipper, Coffin Break, just good rockin bands.
i like what Batsbrew said about the emotion of the performance is more important than the quality.
well said.....
Have you ever listened to The Varukers? I think they were the ones to really nail not just the musicianship and energy but the "proper" (subjective) way to mix hardcore punk in the early days. Unfortunately no one paid much attention to those production values. Hell, Nevermind the Bollocks had amazing (yet simple) production values and yet somehow most underground producers didn't pick up on it. There is a very interesting production curiosity I've mentioned here before that this reminded me of and I think you'll appreciate this (or maybe already know) but one of the very first west coast hardcore albums (US) was by the Germs... who were just a horrendously bad (but somehow awesome) band musically. Most of the horrendousnous was due to Darby Crash's totally inept vocal timing. Joan Jett took those loonjobs into the studio and managed to craft a pretty cool, smoothish yet still aggressive sounding album out of it. That album is apparently considered the foundation of modern western hardcore. So Joan Jett basically invented the "hardcore" studio sound that is still employed to this day in underground production. Or so I've gleaned.
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Beepster
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/11 23:47:46
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Screwit. I've been listening to mountains of old school punk/hardcore lately to get my own current project sounding "right" and I've been ignoring that Germs/JJ release but ya, got it going now. The Germs - GI (maybe NSFW language) And yup... there's that bass/kick/snare pumping action/up front vox. Guits are a little tinny (same issue with a lot of this old stuff) but with modern techniques that can be filled out juuuust enough to add some meat without obscuring the bass/kick dynamic.
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jimmyrage music
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/12 01:23:39
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tlw
jimmyrage music
I wouldn't think too many average listeners would care too much about listening to distorted phone recording of a number one hit.
There are countless phone-shot over-compressed and distorted videos on youtube to prove exactly the opposite.
I'm sure there are. Many that were probably watched with the volume very low or off. Or cut off after the first 3 notes.
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eph221
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/12 02:23:08
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michaelhanson
eph221
Team Green
So like if a tree falls... I mean like if you're in the forest and there's no sound... well it's something like that anyway !!!!
That's what's so funny about that zen thing. You start off the sentence saying the tree fell....it's pretty obvious the tree actually fell unless it's fake news?
Or did the forest rise up to meet the tree?
No, the statement is *a tree falls in the forest and....there's nobody there to see it.* You start the sentence saying, the tree fell...so it must have fallen.
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Beepster
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/12 02:42:48
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eph221
No, the statement is *a tree falls in the forest and....there's nobody there to see it.* You start the sentence saying, the tree fell...so it must have fallen.
I'm going to assume you are being cleverly/intentionally obtuse but that's not the premise of the thought experiment nor even the original statement... " If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" It's not whether the tree has fallen. The tree falling is acknowledged as fact. It happened. The question is whether, if unobserved by a human (or other animal's) auditory system and the attached grey matter to process it, does it actually make a "sound". My answer to that is... it depends on what you mean by "sound" (and whether or not you believe the laws of physics and universe in general exists once you leave the room... which is the true point of the question). If a tree falls in the physical universe as we currently understand it then it will throw air (sound waves) exactly the same way whether or not your and my dumb ass is in the front row with a bag of warm peanuts. But that's not the point. It literally is about how you view yourself in the universe. Does everything else cease to exist if you are not there? A: It does not.
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Voda La Void
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/12 12:29:29
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I thought it was more about realizing that it's you that makes sound, not the environment. You and I will never hear the same sound, the same way, because sound is our biological translation of we call sound waves. There's no reason to believe a tree actually "sounds" like that - only that the way humans are designed they will typically detect waves in the air such that a tree would "sound" a particular way to them.
Same with sight, and all the rest. There's no reason to believe what you see is how things look, only how YOUR biology would translate it.
As to the part about whether or not things exist when you're not there, you will never have an answer to that. There is no way to prove you or anyone else or anything else exists. About all you can be sure of, is that you are a thinking thing. And some philosophers even take issue with that.
Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
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ØSkald
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/12 12:45:59
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ØSkald
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/12 12:47:57
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My point is sort of, if your guitar sounds bad you can put on the best mics/preamps, EQ, compression and so on, but you wont make gold out of it.
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Joad
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/12 17:27:48
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Have you ever listened to The Varukers? I think they were the ones to really nail not just the musicianship and energy but the "proper" (subjective) way to mix hardcore punk in the early days. Unfortunately no one paid much attention to those production values.
it's been a while since i've heard that name, killer band..
the Pistols, what can you say like em" or not they made a big dent on the music machine..
Melcolm Mclaren was a total fool, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face...
i think The Germs were in better shape then the Cramps...
and i kind of liked the Runaways and i can see where Kim Fowley would have a big impact on Joan Jett he knew how to get the right people together. i'm sure Joan Jett took that with her..
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tobiaslindahl
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/12 19:25:41
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Jarsve
My point is sort of, if your guitar sounds bad you can put on the best mics/preamps, EQ, compression and so on, but you wont make gold out of it.
My point is that even IF you guitar sounds awesome, if the notes you play with it are some pathetic, uninteresting pile of bubblegum cliche garbage, not preamp in the world will make much of a difference :) That was sort of my original point, that maybe, just maybe, we focus too much on the packaging and not enough on what is in the package.
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Beepster
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/12 19:37:35
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Mojo Risen
it's been a while since i've heard that name, killer band..
I got to see them at Cafe Chaos in Montreal about ten years ago. They... just... RIPPED!!! Every square inch of that room was vibrating/flooded with sound but the clarity was amazing which is rare for hardcore acts in a smaller venue. I think they may have brought their own sound guy but most of it was likely just having exactly the right gear dialed in perfectly to compliment everything else.
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Joad
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/12 21:23:34
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That must have been crazy good, early Clash was cool like that.. raw and primal.
I saw the Stone Temple Pilots years back at the key arena in Seattle. i was way up in the nose bleed seats they made em"
rumble, for a three piece they could really rock...
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Beepster
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/12 21:42:33
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Mojo Risen
That must have been crazy good, early Clash was cool like that.. raw and primal.
Damn, the full clip of this must have gotten taken down. The Clash - White Riot The entire vid starts with a near brawl between the sound crew and The Clash's crew. I guess they got cut short so one dude has the mic and just screams "MOAR CLASH!! MOAR CLASH!!" over and over again whipping the crowd into a frenzy. You can hear one of the sound people yell "Turn that idiot's mic off!" and a bunch of people arguing and getting in each others faces. Eventually they are allowed to play their encore (and it just blazes because they're pissed off and jacked on adrenaline). At the end it showed the band leaving the stage and everyone trading parting barks. Cool as sh*t. Damn. I wish I could find the whole thing.
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Beepster
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/12 21:52:47
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And STP did some cool stuff. I did a cover of Gasoline in one of my very first bands. It's a groovy and understatedly heavy riff.
I was more into Alice In Chains for that style though. Well at least the Dirt album. That album was actually a huge influence on my vocals.
That bluesy/freaky deaky sense of melody was really cool and once you toss in Cantrell's harmonies... fuggedaboutit.
Staley was like a modernized Sabbath era Ozzy. Loved that shniz. I lost interest when they went all acoustic though. Those songs are still really nice but I have other favorites if I want to listen to mellower stuff.
/ramble
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Joad
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/13 02:35:10
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Beepster
And STP did some cool stuff. I did a cover of Gasoline in one of my very first bands. It's a groovy and understatedly heavy riff.
I was more into Alice In Chains for that style though. Well at least the Dirt album. That album was actually a huge influence on my vocals.
That bluesy/freaky deaky sense of melody was really cool and once you toss in Cantrell's harmonies... fuggedaboutit.
Staley was like a modernized Sabbath era Ozzy. Loved that shniz. I lost interest when they went all acoustic though. Those songs are still really nice but I have other favorites if I want to listen to mellower stuff.
/ramble
another band that killed live.. they were over produced in the studio, the recordings sounded good but they were so good live they really didn't need all the extra goodies.. it's to bad fame gave them such a rough ride.. BTW if thats what your vocal sounds like i say cool, do you have a recording uploaded to the song section?
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Joad
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/13 02:42:17
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Beepster
Damn, the full clip of this must have gotten taken down.
The Clash - White Riot
The entire vid starts with a near brawl between the sound crew and The Clash's crew. I guess they got cut short so one dude has the mic and just screams "MOAR CLASH!! MOAR CLASH!!" over and over again whipping the crowd into a frenzy. You can hear one of the sound people yell "Turn that idiot's mic off!" and a bunch of people arguing and getting in each others faces.
Eventually they are allowed to play their encore (and it just blazes because they're pissed off and jacked on adrenaline). At the end it showed the band leaving the stage and everyone trading parting barks.
Cool as sh*t.
Damn. I wish I could find the whole thing.
yo that looks like a white riot... there is a movie kicking around called The Punk Rock Movie.if you ever get a chance to see it check it out it will blow you away. it used to be on youtube but they pulled it...
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Beepster
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/13 02:54:47
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Naw. It's mostly guitar nerd stuff. I haven't been able to track full on vox since I've actually had the gear to do so (had to abandon my bandroom(s) so got into home nerdlingery).
There are old (crappy) recordings of me doin' Cobain and/or Grohl but nothin' readily available.
I actually got more into Shane MacGowan and Luke Kelly for vocal stuff later on.
These days I think if I really opened up I'd end up sounding like something gurgling up from Leonard Cohen's grave.
May he RIP.
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Beepster
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/13 03:02:57
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Mojo Risen
yo that looks like a white riot... there is a movie kicking around called The Punk Rock Movie.
if you ever get a chance to see it check it out it will blow you away. it used to be on youtube but they pulled it...
YT is kind of like a "whackamole" game when it comes to musical content. One day it's there... the next it ain't. Understandable whut whiff copyrights and the like but it's still annoying after finding some gem of a performance.
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Joad
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/13 03:30:39
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Beepster
Naw. It's mostly guitar nerd stuff. I haven't been able to track full on vox since I've actually had the gear to do so (had to abandon my bandroom(s) so got into home nerdlingery).
There are old (crappy) recordings of me doin' Cobain and/or Grohl but nothin' readily available.
I actually got more into Shane MacGowan and Luke Kelly for vocal stuff later on.
These days I think if I really opened up I'd end up sounding like something gurgling up from Leonard Cohen's grave.
May he RIP.
Leonard Cohen from the grave would still sound better then Dylan these days...
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Joad
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/13 03:37:48
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Beepster
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/13 05:40:30
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Thanks. I think I may have seen that one but will check it out (again if that is the case). In return here is a doc from the Toronto punk scene in 83-84. Not Dead Yet Sound is really low/bad but yeah... freaking weirdos. I was like 7 yo when that was made but know a disturbing amount of the people featured. lulz
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eph221
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/13 05:51:41
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Beepster
eph221
No, the statement is *a tree falls in the forest and....there's nobody there to see it.* You start the sentence saying, the tree fell...so it must have fallen.
I'm going to assume you are being cleverly/intentionally obtuse but that's not the premise of the thought experiment nor even the original statement...
"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"
It's not whether the tree has fallen. The tree falling is acknowledged as fact. It happened.
The question is whether, if unobserved by a human (or other animal's) auditory system and the attached grey matter to process it, does it actually make a "sound".
My answer to that is... it depends on what you mean by "sound" (and whether or not you believe the laws of physics and universe in general exists once you leave the room... which is the true point of the question).
If a tree falls in the physical universe as we currently understand it then it will throw air (sound waves) exactly the same way whether or not your and my dumb ass is in the front row with a bag of warm peanuts.
But that's not the point. It literally is about how you view yourself in the universe.
Does everything else cease to exist if you are not there?
A: It does not.
[/quote
We're talking about *the observer's paradox*: a situation in which the phenomenon being observed is unwittingly influenced by the presence of the observer/investigator. If the tree falls, then it fell, it's not both fallen and not fallen at the same time. That's the situation simply because the thought experiment begins with, the tree fell. The both/and of the thought experiment is made either/or by the first statement. As for *does the universe cease to exist when I'm not observing it?* I'm not sure.
*Q-TIPS ARE FUZZY!!* Is a lumineer a new dental appliance? i7 2.5 ghz 32GB RAM WINDOWS 10 My Ass Cubase 9.5
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Beepster
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/13 05:59:49
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Yes, yes. The world goes away when you aren't around.
*eye yawn*
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eph221
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/13 06:15:09
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Beepster
Yes, yes. The world goes away when you aren't around.
*eye yawn*
As far as your question, does it make a sound. That would depend upon a lot of things that we don't have information of, like it's location in the woods, whether there were other trees around, whether the ground was soggy or dry...etc Given the information on those conditions, we can infer that it made a sound, WHEN IT ACTUALLY FELL!!!!
*Q-TIPS ARE FUZZY!!* Is a lumineer a new dental appliance? i7 2.5 ghz 32GB RAM WINDOWS 10 My Ass Cubase 9.5
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Beepster
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/13 06:16:00
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Well you edited your thingie and mangled your format but yes...
It is similar to the Shrodinger's Cat thought experiment... which was actually a joke... that got taken far too seriously.
Just like if a tree falls in the forest, no matter who's listening, there are going to be sound waves created, if you stuff a cat into a box with a bunch of radioactive material... that cat be dead, yo.
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Beepster
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/13 06:20:22
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BTW, and don't quote me on this, but I think the general consensus these days about the wave vs particle slit lamp experiment wackiness is that yes, it was actually the equipment observing the events causing the change.
However it still does not/did not disprove the "light is a wave AND a particle" theory.
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eph221
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/13 06:25:46
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I was more thinking of quantum entanglement, but you're right about the both/and of light.
*Q-TIPS ARE FUZZY!!* Is a lumineer a new dental appliance? i7 2.5 ghz 32GB RAM WINDOWS 10 My Ass Cubase 9.5
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Beepster
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Re: Is sound qulity REALLY that important?
2018/04/13 06:41:51
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eph221
quantum entanglement,
Now THAT be some freaky deaky McShneaky snizzwhizzle... yo.
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