Helpful ReplyIs there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical?

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cpkoch
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2017/04/13 00:45:08 (permalink)

Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical?

Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical?   I have gone to the PRV and edited the lengths of the sound bites  a more or less random  fashion and accomplished what I need to do, but is there an easier way?

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Kev999
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 01:01:57 (permalink)
As a rule, if all the notes are the same volume, then the off-beats will sound subjectively louder than the onbeats. So adjust accordingly. This seems to apply to halfs, quarters, eighths, sixteenths, or any length.

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bitman
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 01:06:13 (permalink)
Humanize.cal?
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gustabo
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 01:12:13 (permalink)
Frank's Midi Plug-Ins - the humanize one.
http://www.midi-plugins.de/
 


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Cactus Music
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 02:40:52 (permalink)
Play the part with feeling.
There's really no hope for entering data and expecting it to sound like a real musician played it unless you are very skilled and knowledgeable about exactly what it takes to create great music . Of that I'm glad because it makes all the hard work I put into being a musician worthwhile. The day a machine sounds like me is the day the music truly will die. 
Go ahead and try the Humanizing logarithm, it will only add machine generated mistakes to the perfectly mechanical part. It cannot add feeling or create what only a skilled musical would play. 
 

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rogeriodec
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 03:17:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jude77 2017/04/13 16:18:29
This depends on many factors, not just the start position of the note, or speed.
Each VST used will have its idiosyncrasies.
Some sample libraries will be more realistic than others, containing true legatos, expression, staccatos, etc.
So everything will depend on a good choice of which VST / Library and how you know to make the most of what it offers.

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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 06:24:28 (permalink)
Exact start and end time seems less important than sensitive, listening, adjustment of note volume, both at the attack and through the duration of longer notes.   I agree that 'humanize.cal' does not really work very well; but 'play it in' doesn't always work either, since that introduces a lot of new variables, including your finger-on-keyboard technique and the vagaries of your samples.    So, my method is to focus on volume adjustments using note velocity (if your VST accepts that as a factor) and CC11 (or CC1 or CC7, depending) as a changing of the amplitude during note playback, on the one hand, and using the Tempo View to draw in subtle tempo changes all the time.   
 
Using 'Copy Special' you can copy the tempo curve for a few moments or a few bars, and 'Paste special' puts the copied tempo curve into a new place.   Just be very vigilant for changes in what you think you've selected ... Sonar is weird that way. 
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Kamikaze
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 06:44:10 (permalink)
If it's for drums, and you use AD2, you can record the rhythm (or drag it, but it's a bit glitchy and I'm currently speaking about the drag function with XLN, who seem completly confused you can do it) into beats section. From their you have the 'Transform' tools. Allowing you to adjust the accents, and introduce randomness to the velocities and timings. When you are happy, drag it out to the clip

 
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 12:29:49 (permalink)
I'm with Cactus, it will only sound human if it's played by a human.
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bitflipper
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 12:38:08 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2017/04/13 13:26:51
"Easy"? Sorry, no. There is really just one way to make MIDI tracks sound natural: play and record them in real time.
 
There are tools for randomizing velocities and timing, but - and this is important - live performances, though imperfect, are NOT random. A drummer does not place each hit exactly on the grid, but the extent to which a hit lands before or after the grid isn't random. Same for a saxophone solo, a piano rhythm track, or for each of the 20 violins in an ensemble. Musicians often do not consciously know why they make those decisions, describing it by the vague term "groove".
 
This presents a serious challenge for the solo composer/recordist, who is not an expert player for every instrument he might want to use in a composition. Even if you are an excellent guitarist, maybe even an excellent keyboardist as well, chances are you know little about tubas, celli or cajóns. However, the answer is the same regardless of your skill level: play each part by hand in real time, even if it takes a few tries to get it right.
 


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rogeriodec
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 13:24:41 (permalink)
The Fit to Improvisation technique is something very useful too.

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Slugbaby
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 13:47:25 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Caa2 2017/04/17 15:39:06
Cactus Music
Play the part with feeling.
There's really no hope for entering data and expecting it to sound like a real musician played it unless you are very skilled and knowledgeable about exactly what it takes to create great music . Of that I'm glad because it makes all the hard work I put into being a musician worthwhile. The day a machine sounds like me is the day the music truly will die. 
Go ahead and try the Humanizing logarithm, it will only add machine generated mistakes to the perfectly mechanical part. It cannot add feeling or create what only a skilled musical would play. 

This is dead on.
 
As much as I can, I perform the parts on a MIDI keyboard.  For the parts I program with a mouse, I spend hours on each MIDI track analyzing and adjusting every note for velocity, timing, and expression based on the context.  It's not easy, it's not quick, it's not perfect.
 
I spent many hours nitpicking the synthesized sax lines on 3 songs I'm currently working on.  I thought they sounded great.  My producer/mixer disagreed, showed me what I was missing, and now I'm hiring a saxophone player to perform what I was attempting.

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MarioD
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 16:07:05 (permalink)
Volume CCs, velocity and humanize has been mentioned but don't forget about the pitch wheel, mod wheel (or joystsick) and all of the other CCs that can add realism.
 
I agree the best way is to play the line.  A breath controller or wind controller is necessary to add realism to horns, woodwinds and just about every other instrument IMHO.  But unfortunately there is no easy way to add realism to a MIDI part.  It takes time, knowledge of the instrument you are trying to emulate and MIDI controller knowledge.
 
One last thing you can get a close emulation and fool many people but you will never fool someone who plays that instrument.
 
YMMV

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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 16:28:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby beejay 2017/04/13 16:39:58
The "humanize" function should be named the "number of drinks" function. It may seem humans introduce random timing and other issues, but when you actually take some measurements, it's pretty shocking. Someone like Steve Gadd can lag or lead the beat consistently by a few milliseconds. John Bonham's kick is right on the beat, but the snare is a little bit delayed to give that "big" vibe. It helps if you never quantize to 100% strength; start with 85% strength.
 
But if you REALLY want to know what's going on, AFAIC there is NOTHING better than this ground-breaking article by Michael Stewart.
 
Read it and learn. 'Nuff said.

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bitman
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 16:51:09 (permalink)
Thank you Craig. I can't wait to go home now and slide a little snare here and there.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 16:51:30 (permalink)
Good point, I almost never quantize to 100 percent. If I have to quantize at all I like to use 80 percent or maybe 85 tops.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 16:59:29 (permalink)
Here's another program that has a feature called swing grid ...works for midi and audio ...
sorry to go here , but can this be done in SONAR ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY3fiDV8hIE
 
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soens
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 19:01:26 (permalink)
Interesting article. You can't really blame the "android" effect of drum machines on any one factor like timing. The "human" feel isn't just one factor but a series of factors including sample used, velocity variances, note timing, etc. If a DM uses the exact same sample @ the exact same velocity level @ 100% quantization, you'll get the android effect.
 
Some better VIs provide these variances. Most run of the mill VIs don't, so it's up to the user to make them.
 
Another factor is offsetting each instrument so that your ears aren't hearing every instrument strike at precisely the same time.
 
Most, if not all, analog recordings, especially those on tape, drift throughout the entire mix, usually going from slow to fast. I think this "effect" is probably the most humanizing of all and the hardest to emulate digitally.
post edited by soens - 2017/04/13 21:17:24
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konradh
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 19:34:53 (permalink)
In my opinion, in the world of modern music, notes on the grid don't sound unnatural to me or most people.  Notes with rigid velocity do, however.  As noted above, having lower velocities on the off-beats sounds better.  For a bass part, for example, I might use Find/Change to set everything on a 0 tick to one velocity and everything else to another, lower velocity.  After that, however, I would check to see if any off-beat notes needed to be emphasized with full velocity. Bass and drums are easy.  An exposed piano part takes time, since some notes are lead notes and some are supporting.
 
It is very important to know how the instrument is normally played.  My favorite true story is about the guy I saw in a music store playing Louie, Louie block chords on an oboe sample and then walking away saying, "That doesn't sound like an oboe."
 
Also, think about what "natural" means.  If it means mistakes or off-beat notes, I wouldn't do it.  If it means smooth and flowing, go for it.
 
For decades we fought to get bass players and drummers to play in time.  Now we have sequencers and everyone complains because they play in time.  Back to my first point, I think the expression is more critical than the timing.
 
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konradh
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 20:24:55 (permalink)
I read the article Craig linked and it is really good.  I am stupid, though, in that I get confused when they talk about moving events forward or back.  I understand early and late, but with forward and back, I am not sure which is which.

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#20
soens
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 21:13:23 (permalink)
Forward=early. Back=late.
 
 
 
right?!
post edited by soens - 2017/04/14 19:28:32
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/13 21:39:47 (permalink)
For MIDI programming to result in music that has intention, gesture, phrasing, dynamics an expression you can play the music in live or you can program.  If you program:
 
1.  Think like a player, meaning strong and weak beats.  Make some notes long, some shorter, some notes louder, some softer, some with fast attacks, some with slower attacks.  It all depends upon the phrase and the timbre you're working with.  Think in terms of natural phrasing, with very slight pauses, cadences, high and low melodic points and interesting harmonic rhythm. 
 
2. Use a lot of program/articulation changes, the more the better.
 
3.  Sometimes you might have to move an entire track forward or backward by a given number of ticks, to get a groove.  I find with softsynths and strings for example, the crisp attacks of softsynth timbres require me to move the entire softsynth track 15-25 ticks late.  This creates a groove that doesn't exist if I don't do that.  Here's an example: www.jerrygerber.com/mp3/Raga.mp3
 
4.  The quality of composition enters into the equation.  Sometimes a computer performance sounds mechanical not only because of MIDI performance issues, but because of poor voice-leading, unbalanced harmonies, wrong tempi, etc.  Some music requires a lot of tempo changes, use them, even very small changes.
 
5.  If a note sounds too early, move it later by a few ticks.  If it sounds late, move it earlier by a few ticks.
 
Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com
post edited by jsg - 2017/04/14 04:03:50
#22
cpkoch
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/14 01:39:32 (permalink)
Unfortunately I am not an instrumentalist of any sort  so it remains impossible for me to record stuff from scratch as many have suggested in answer to my query.  Nevertheless, I certainly want to thank all of you for your wonderful suggestions.  I had no idea that my query would attract so much great attention!  Thanks!!

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bitflipper
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/14 01:50:14 (permalink)
cpkoch
Unfortunately I am not an instrumentalist of any sort  so it remains impossible for me to record stuff from scratch as many have suggested in answer to my query.  Nevertheless, I certainly want to thank all of you for your wonderful suggestions.  I had no idea that my query would attract so much great attention!  Thanks!!


Don't let that stop you! Do you at least have a MIDI keyboard controller? You might be surprised at what you can do with two fingers and some practice. My granddaughter can play Jingle Bells with no training beyond Grandpa's encouragement. With input quantization turned on (at < 100%), I could probably record her playing a decent rendition. If you don't have a keyboard, they start as little as fifty bucks.
 
Can you sing? Audio-to-MIDI conversion can let you sing any part, convert it to MIDI and drive any instrument with it.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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cpkoch
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/14 02:46:49 (permalink)
gustabo
Frank's Midi Plug-Ins - the humanize one.
http://www.midi-plugins.de/
 


How does one install MIDI Plugin into SONAR Platinum.  It seems to want to install into CUBASE.
 

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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/14 08:03:37 (permalink)
On feature in Sonar is Groove quantise. Rather than quantise to the grid it will use a pre defined groove or anything in your clipboard. This is more effective than pure random humanization.

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gustabo
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/14 09:55:00 (permalink)
cpkoch
gustabo
Frank's Midi Plug-Ins - the humanize one.
http://www.midi-plugins.de/
 


How does one install MIDI Plugin into SONAR Platinum.  It seems to want to install into CUBASE.
 


Don't check "Install VST Midi Plugins (supported by Cubase)"


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Mwah
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/14 11:29:42 (permalink)
Glyn Barnes
On feature in Sonar is Groove quantise. Rather than quantise to the grid it will use a pre defined groove or anything in your clipboard. This is more effective than pure random humanization.

I’m more than a bit surprised that it took so many answers before anybody mentioned Groove Quantise. As Graig mentioned, just adding random variations to a midi track (as many of these ”humanise” functions do) doesn’t make it sound like a musician actually played the thing. No player worth their salt makes random variations – all the variations in the timing and volume have a purpose.

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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/14 12:41:00 (permalink)
Great suggestions given above, one CAL script I find quite useful is the Vary Velocity Cal.
Just gives some subtle variations in the velocity values can make a small but noticeable difference.

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#29
chuckebaby
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Re: Is there a simple way to make a MIDI track not seem so mechanical? 2017/04/14 14:11:37 (permalink)
I have found a few pops, the wife complaining about money, the kids arguing.. helps me humanize my tracks on a totally different level

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