AnsweredLockedI've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum?

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riojazz
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2018/12/13 00:17:56 (permalink)

I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum?

After trying many other DAWs over the past year, I downloaded Cakewalk by BandLab and found it to be just fine, and very familiar of course.
 
I then looked for a BandLab Forum but found almost nothing.  Is this the right place to be going forward, and is it supported by the company?  Thanks.

Software: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Adobe Audition; Band-in-A-Box audiophile; Izotope Ozone; Encore; Melodyne; Win 10 Pro, 64-bit.

Hardware: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd; Roland Integra-7; TCE Finalizer; Presonus Central Station, Behringer X-Touch.  Home built i7 with 16 GB RAM, SSDs.
#1
Euthymia
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/13 00:30:48 (permalink)
Yes and yes, so far.
 
Unfortunately, this is all we have.
 
The thousands of new users are unable to create new accounts, so it's mostly veterans, which means that you'll get answers very quickly.
 
But it also means that we don't have the benefit of new users asking newbie questions and seeing how they get answered.
 
And most of the veterans who are here had to live through the awfulness of the Gibson announcement, so there's been some lingering shell-shock that's fortunately shifting to enthusiasm for BandLab's stewardship.

-Erik
___________
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stickman393
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/13 00:50:21 (permalink)
Nice way of putting it, @Euthymia :-)
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jimfogle
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/13 02:02:04 (permalink)
Hi Matt,
 
Welcome back.
 
BandLab stated a new forum is in the works way back when.  At some point this forum will be frozen but remain available as a searchable web based resource.  There have been a few assurances since that the plan for a new forum hasn't changed but no timeline for implementing a new forum has been announced.

Jim F
Cakewalk by Bandlab (CbB)
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http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
 
 
#4
soens
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/13 04:50:48 (permalink)
I still ask newbie questions now & then. Does that help?
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Larry Jones
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/13 06:14:21 (permalink)
soens
I still ask newbie questions now & then. Does that help?

Very helpful, thanks! I do it too, because almost every time I do a project I feel like a beginner.
 
I've thought about this a bit, and in my opinion there's very little incentive for Bandlab to bother with a Bandlab version of this forum. There's a high ratio of electronics geeks here, as well as old-school recording artists, experienced musicians who know music theory or at least understand song structure, who are producing professional-level recordings and need support delving into this very deep and complex program. The typical Bandlab user is operating, shall we say, in a completely different universe, and probably doesn't need the power of SONAR to do what they're doing, and probably thinks it's too complicated anyway. I suppose Bandlab thinks that in time a bunch of those users will find a use for SONAR's power and depth, and some will migrate toward it, but -- my opinion only -- the reality is that they would overwhelmingly prefer an app that runs on Android, and some rudimentary tools for making beats. Why would they need a forum like this?
 
Making SONAR free and creating a "social music" network -- these are brave experiments, and I hope some good comes from them. But based on my five or six lengthy visits to bandlab.com, I feel completely disoriented over there, and I bet the regulars there would feel the same way here if they could get in. All of which goes to say a new forum by Bandlab that is in any way similar to this one is a pretty long shot.

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#6
burgerproduction
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/13 06:41:32 (permalink)
Well put Larry. I've dipped my toe into the Bandlab forum only a few times, but I found it incomparable to this forum. I hope Bandlab realise this and keep it alive.

Cakewalk by Bandlab, Sonar Platinum Lifetimer, Windows 10, HP Laptop, CPU i5, RAM 8GB. Audio interface: Edirol FA-101 Firewire interface with moded drivers. Microphones: Audio-Technica, M-Audio, Behringer, AKG. Pianos: Casio digital, Yamaha B1 upright.  Guitars: Dobro, Tanglewood, Danelectro, Fender. Hats: Fez
Check out my music :
https://53mph.bandcamp.com/album/like-water-to-the-sand
 
#7
Skyline_UK
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/13 08:35:46 (permalink)
Hi Matt, welcome back!
 
Yes, we've been promised a new forum, but I'm not sure why it's taking so long; I thought forums were software applcations you bought off the shelf rather than write from scratch. I also find it odd that this forum was locked some time ago: where do all the new users go to for forum activity?  I assume there must be lots of new users since the product became free.
 
When Gibson bowed out I reverted to Studio One 3 which I'd been using on and off for a long while but switched back when BandLab acquired Sonar. Noel Borthwick coming on board confirmed to me that CbB is going to have a good future, although like others, I don't yet see how a non-revenue producing product fits in with the BandLab portfolio.
 
John

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#8
bluebeat1313
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/13 18:17:25 (permalink)
Hey Matt,
Once you go (back) to Cake....you don't not stay awake!
 
I believe you will be pleasantly surprised how well it is maintained. It is not only familiar, but very stable.
 
Best regards,
Misha.
 
 
#9
michael diemer
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/13 18:28:11 (permalink)
I too feel very out of place in the land of skinny guys with holes in their jeans (although I once was one). I can't imagine these two worlds overlapping much. so hopefully this forum will continue, or Meng and Co. will create a new one. Failing that, I'm sure we will all migrate to an alternative forum if and when the need arises.

michael diemer
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#10
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/13 18:34:54 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2018/12/13 18:43:38
Jesse has been working on coordinating the set up of a new forum and a lot of progress has been made. There are lots of details on the back end so its not as simple as flipping a switch unfortunately. It is due to happen pretty soon though.

Noel Borthwick
Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
#11
InstrEd
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/13 18:48:43 (permalink)
Noel good to hear. I hope the new forum is as active as this one is.
 
Remember to take time off and enjoy the Christmas Season. I hope it is okay to say Christmas on the forum :)
 

Instred
Chicagoland, IL 

#12
roclowther
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/13 20:17:45 (permalink)
Well...I’m here too. First time checking the forum out in about a year. Glad to still see it’s here. I’ve use 12Tones since 1995 and still have the floppy disks. I’ve been using Pro Tools HD and Studio One 4 but Sonar still stands out. I’ve since moved to a Mac system mostly but still use windows if a client sends a Sonar project. Love ❤️ Sonar platinum 😎 Merry Christmas Everyone
#13
Larry Jones
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/13 20:59:31 (permalink)
Skyline_UK 
I also find it odd that this forum was locked some time ago: where do all the new users go to for forum activity?  I assume there must be lots of new users since the product became free.


It would be fun and useful to have some young blood in the forum. There's gotta be at least some new users who want a full-featured DAW to do serious recording. But the SONAR documentation is only good if you know what you're looking for and you are already conversant with the terminology -- so you'd know what to search for. New users need old users to talk them through the occasionally painful early learning steps, and with this forum locked (and the search function in its 20th year of not working) finding the info you need is quite difficult. I'm grateful they're doing it, but it's a bit of a head-scratcher at this point why Bandlab is even letting us chatter among ourselves on their dime.
 
Skyline_UK
I don't yet see how a non-revenue producing product fits in with the BandLab portfolio.


At some point they're going to have to charge for something, and that's when the excrement will hit the ventilation system. "Non revenue-producing" stuff doesn't fit in with any corporate portfolio.

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#14
seriousfun
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/13 22:31:54 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Wookiee 2018/12/20 16:16:10
There is a very good group on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
 

Doug Osborne
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Euthymia
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/14 00:17:03 (permalink)
InstrEd
Remember to take time off and enjoy the Christmas Season. I hope it is okay to say Christmas on the forum :)



Despite what some people would have you believe, I, who have live in lefty-liberal la-la-land Northern California have been saying "Merry Christmas" to strangers for 35 years and have never gotten anything but good vibes in return. Everyone knows it's just shorthand for "whatever holiday you celebrate around the Winter Solstice."
 
So I wish all a Merry Christmas season. For the religious, a spiritual holiday.
 
For those who don't have a lot of social contacts around, I hope they are productive and that the forums they frequent stay reasonably active.
 
Obligatory recording content: wouldn't you love to write a song that becomes a holiday standard? That's the way to retirement riches. Not to mention a way to become a part of people's lives.

-Erik
___________
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#16
riojazz
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/14 05:57:14 (permalink)
Thank you all for the welcome back, and the great answers in one day that far exceeded my expectations (not of you folks, but of BandLab).  Yes, I found myself feeling very out of place looking at anything BandLab, just as Larry said.  He's no doubt right about the reverse situation so it will be interesting when new users join.
 
Oh, and I didn't know about a Facebook group.  Thanks.

Software: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Adobe Audition; Band-in-A-Box audiophile; Izotope Ozone; Encore; Melodyne; Win 10 Pro, 64-bit.

Hardware: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd; Roland Integra-7; TCE Finalizer; Presonus Central Station, Behringer X-Touch.  Home built i7 with 16 GB RAM, SSDs.
#17
Euthymia
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/14 08:17:30 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby arlen2133 2018/12/14 19:42:35
Larry Jones
Skyline_UK
I don't yet see how a non-revenue producing product fits in with the BandLab portfolio.

At some point they're going to have to charge for something, and that's when the excrement will hit the ventilation system. "Non revenue-producing" stuff doesn't fit in with any corporate portfolio.



If "non revenue-producing" stuff doesn't fit in with any corporate portfolio, do you think Google are going to start charging for Chrome, MediaHuman are going to start charging for AudioConverter and VideoConverter, Sun are going to start charging for Java, and Microsoft are going to start charging for Skype?
 
BandLab have two lines of excellent guitars, tube amps, they sell instrument cases, stompboxes, and audio interfaces, all in addition to their musical collaboration social media website.
 
Have you considered that licensing Cakewalk for free produces or will produce revenue in a more indirect way than the traditional direct pay license?
 
For instance, Tostitos pays millions of dollars to put on a college football game every year. This actually costs them money. Many, many more times the amount of money than BandLab paid for the whole Cakewalk kit and kaboodle and enough to pay all the expenses for years. Yet they believe that in the long run, it will make more money than it costs by increasing brand awareness and making people want to buy and eat their tasty corn chips and salsa dip, and also perhaps invest in their stock. In this way, spending all these millions on this football game most certainly fits in with their corporate portfolio.
 
When I visit Costco or Trader Joe's, there is an employee, making just as much money as any other floor employee, salary, benefits, etc., who prepares and hands out free samples of the food that the store sells. Again, negative revenue in the short run, but expected positive revenue in the long run.
 
Ever gotten free t-shirts at an event? Swag at a trade show? Free picks?
 
I never even heard of BandLab until they started giving away Cakewalk. Now I have a song up on their site, am in a virtual band with a neighbor of mine, and I've told half a dozen musician friends about Cakewalk by BandLab. Brand awareness!
 
Not to worry!

-Erik
___________
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Warning: if you tell me my issue can be remedied by buying more RAM, an SSD, or a Waves plug-in, I will troll you pitiilessly
#18
Larry Jones
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/14 08:28:48 (permalink)
Euthymia
If "non revenue-producing" stuff doesn't fit in with any corporate portfolio, do you think Google are going to start charging for Chrome, MediaHuman are going to start charging for AudioConverter and VideoConverter, Sun are going to start charging for Java, and Microsoft are going to start charging for Skype?
 

Sorry. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. I have no idea if the Bandlab company is making money. I know Cakewalk couldn't seem to make a go of it, and they were charging for SONAR. I note that the guitar part of Gibson was making money, and the Cakewalk part was not. So Cakewalk was shut down. I'm heavily invested in CbB, and I hope for the best with Bandlab, but I'm not seeing the synergy, your experience notwithstanding. Nothing personal, just business.

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#19
Skyline_UK
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/14 09:51:43 (permalink)
Larry Jones
Euthymia
If "non revenue-producing" stuff doesn't fit in with any corporate portfolio, do you think Google are going to start charging for Chrome, MediaHuman are going to start charging for AudioConverter and VideoConverter, Sun are going to start charging for Java, and Microsoft are going to start charging for Skype?
 

Sorry. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. I have no idea if the Bandlab company is making money. I know Cakewalk couldn't seem to make a go of it, and they were charging for SONAR. I note that the guitar part of Gibson was making money, and the Cakewalk part was not. So Cakewalk was shut down. I'm heavily invested in CbB, and I hope for the best with Bandlab, but I'm not seeing the synergy, your experience notwithstanding. Nothing personal, just business.



I totally agree Larry. I love CbB and am extremely grateful to Meng and his team and wish them all good luck for the future.
Before retirement I was CFO of various companies over the years and always remember the words of a new (and very successful) CEO in one of those who said "The quickest way to increase profits is stop activities that lose money." If there is no direct profit, prospect of future profit, or significant synergy then the activity is not required on voyage.  (There are other reasons for acquisitions such as owning a prestige brand that shines warmth on the portfolio, or blocking a competitor, or acquiring key staff skills, of which the latter could apply here).  I've always assumed the medium/long term plan for CbB (which I seem to recall was part of the plan under Gibson) was to charge for major additions, accessory plugins, etc. I also thought that the CW acquisition was intended to help BandLab users make better quality sharing/cooperation tracks and that BandLab itself would be monetised at some point with on-screen ads or similar.

My stuff
 
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Band In A Box 2016, Ozone 8
+ too many other plugins
BandLab page
#20
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/14 13:27:56 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby backwoods 2018/12/14 21:58:49
Larry Jones
I'm heavily invested in CbB, and I hope for the best with Bandlab, but I'm not seeing the synergy, your experience notwithstanding. Nothing personal, just business.



Look at this months update if you want to see synergy. We have integrated sync with BandLab right from CbB. You can publish stems right from your project to the cloud. Our synergy with Cakewalk is to handle the pro end of the spectrum and leverage the BandLab cloud and deep social ecosystem. This is something other DAW's do not have the luxury of doing. With BandLab we now have solutions for the full content creation spectrum of users, those who want to want the immediacy of mobile music creation as well as the pro end of the spectrum.

Noel Borthwick
Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
#21
Starise
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/14 15:02:40 (permalink)
Thanks for all of the work you and the team are doing here!
 
I think Cubase has some kind of a cloud thing. I don't believe it's as open ended or feature rich though which limits it. The Bandlab app left a little to be desired for the more  engineer centric folks. The addition of a seamless CbB to Bandlab is something a few here had guessed might happen. Only makes sense if you own Bandlab. Interesting times ahead!
 
As for the forum, I like it but I agree it needs to have a few revamps. I'm guessing that the new forum will tie indirectly into the Bandlab company vision or at least encourage it. Having the ability to sign new users and not occasionally loose posts will be nice. At that same time there's a good chance the whole feel will change. New people, new feel.
 
 
 
 

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#22
djstauffer
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/14 15:54:59 (permalink)

> If "non revenue-producing" stuff doesn't fit in with any corporate portfolio, do you think Google are going to > start charging for Chrome, MediaHuman are going to start charging for AudioConverter and VideoConverter, > Sun are going to start charging for Java, and Microsoft are going to start charging for Skype?
 
I can guarantee that Sun will *NEVER* start charging for Java -- period!
 
... because Sun Microsystems no longer exists.  They were acquired by Oracle in 2010, and evidently their headquarters was sold to Facebook (sad).
#23
John
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/14 20:49:26 (permalink)
Free software has never gotten the respect it should get. Paid for software is what is reviewed and discussed. However, there are a few very good free software offerings that are quite good and actually lead in some cases. Right now Cakewalk is the very best free DAW on offer. A distinction it owns all by itself. It should be the most downloaded DAW on the internet. I don't believe it is. Why, I don't know, but I suspect it is for the reason in the first sentence. 
 
Then it has only been out a short time as a free DAW. It may be that given time it will reach critical mass and be the number one DAW around. 
 
 

Best
John
#24
gargonknight
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/14 21:21:44 (permalink)
I too left sonar and love what noel and the gang are doing to cbb. i had fl studio and waveform but cant stop using cbb. and the latest updates are pushing this daw to a new level for me. i do believe they will eventually charge for cbb as there is a lot of work going on in this daw and i notice we got 2 new or upgraded plugings. as for the forum us die hard sonarians is keeping it alive and i think it should be merged into the new forum but kept the same as it is now.
cbb is now an exciting colourful daw pound for pound soild and can pretty well match most daws out there at the moment.
i hope they keep and add to the cakewalk university as ive learnt a hell of a lot about sonar keep the good work guys loving it!!

proper don gargon musical warrior!
#25
Larry Jones
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/14 23:17:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby marled 2018/12/15 14:12:37
I'm not a naysayer. I explored three other DAWs in the aftermath of the Cakewalk shutdown, and returned with relief and gratitude to SONAR when Bandlab acquired it. I hope for the best and I wish them the best. But whatever "synergy" has been developed so far doesn't do me any good. I'm not going to be collaborating with the folks on the Bandlab site, even if I now have the ability to "publish to Bandlab." I just need a high quality full-featured recording program. Maybe I'm isolated in this, and there are a lot of long-time SONAR users who've been waiting for the chance to have Bandlab "friends" around the world add tracks to their projects. But it's not my interest.

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#26
mkerl
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/15 00:23:48 (permalink)
Music in itself is social. Even if you are a soloist, finally you need audience to take notice of your appearance. 
A social music network is indeed way overdue in the digital reality.. To me it's exciting to use this   excellent Software not only for solitary purposes, but have  the possibility to collaborate. Possibly I collaborate with my buddies only? Whatever, nothing to lose, everything to win
 
Cheers :) 

Nothing to do but playing (Ch. Parker)
#27
embersofautumn
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/15 04:00:47 (permalink)
Welcome back. Speaking from someone with years in the software/customer service industry, I trust Bandlab will understand the value of institutional knowledge and keep the present forum around in one form or the other.  
 
The exciting aspect is the synergy between the cloud/social AI of today and the knowledge base of the forum.  We have the potential to create a new landscape - and here is the most intriguing aspect:  Extending functionality in ways we have yet to dream. 
#28
Euthymia
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/15 09:18:36 (permalink)
Skyline_UKI also thought that the CW acquisition was intended to help BandLab users make better quality sharing/cooperation tracks and that BandLab itself would be monetised at some point with on-screen ads or similar.



That's been my assumption as well. And I don't think it needs to do much more than that to pay its way. Maybe getting the Cakewalk plug-ins re-branded and up for sale, perhaps selling space on their cloud servers as Cakewalk becomes more and more integrated if people want to use that as backup, selling loop packs. Those would all be nice bonuses, but really, what you say about it just being a complementary thing to the online platform, like Google Docs has its iOS and Android apps. Of course, BandLab already has apps that run on those platforms, too, and they are free. Cakewalk is the (monstrously powerful) Windows app.
 
Once the BandLab site starts getting eyeballs, who knows what it's capable of as far as revenue. Facebook started out ad-free and they wound up doing pretty well. Powerful enough to influence a presidential election? YIKES!
 
There are other modes to be in than "quickest way to increase profits," but when I (veteran of Silicon Valley, both hardware and software) have been at companies that got brand new CEO's, they did tend to have that outlook. Especially the companies that were publicly-traded. :-)

-Erik
___________
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#29
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
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Re: I've returned to Cakewalk. Is this THE forum? 2018/12/15 13:53:27 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mkerl 2018/12/15 19:14:32
Larry Jones
I'm not a naysayer. I explored three other DAWs in the aftermath of the Cakewalk shutdown, and returned with relief and gratitude to SONAR when Bandlab acquired it. I hope for the best and I wish them the best. But whatever "synergy" has been developed so far doesn't do me any good. I'm not going to be collaborating with the folks on the Bandlab site, even if I now have the ability to "publish to Bandlab." I just need a high quality full-featured recording program. Maybe I'm isolated in this, and there are a lot of long-time SONAR users who've been waiting for the chance to have Bandlab "friends" around the world add tracks to their projects. But it's not my interest.




Its not just about collaboration. I think folks are not seeing all the potential value in a cloud based service like this. The BandLab ecosystem integration serves a multitude of uses. Here are just a few potential use cases...
 
  • Expose your music to fans. You can hyperlink any track in BandLab on social media your website or elsewhere. Which musician doesn't need fans? :)
  • Easily invite feedback on works in progress from peers or band members. Share a BL revision with select users.
  • Push mixes or stems from CbB to the BandLab cloud to easily audition on different devices. i.e. easily check a mix in your car from BandLab using your phone's bluetooth connection. If you upload stems, you can play with mixing the stems in BandLab to see how you can improve the mix. Much faster than going back and forth with the DAW and burning CD mixes or uploading to thumb drives. This is a great use case that you cannot do with other services like Soundcloud etc.
  • Backup multiple revisions of your mixes to the cloud to easily audition them quickly. The export integration supports BandLab's revision management. In BandLab (web or mobile app) simply pick the revision that you want to listen to to quickly switch between different mixes.
  • Experiment with ideas for a song when you are away from your DAW. With stem mixes you can easily mute a part and experiment with different takes just using your phone. There are some great plug-in mic's that work very well to capture audio with just a phone. BandLab even makes the inexpensive Link Analog and Digital that are useful devices to augment this workflow.
  • Publish stems to collaborate with others who may contribute other instrument parts
  • Engage with other musicians or fans socially. Comments in your BandLab feed are a much better integrated avenue to get feedback and promote your music than a private songs forum.

Noel Borthwick
Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
#30
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