arnie guitar
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Just Keep My Mouth Shut, Right?
A band I was in many years ago, but still stay in contact with knows I have a (simple) recording setup, and asked me to record them for a new 7 song demo they'd like to take around and try and get some work. I don't know what happened, but time has not been good to them. They're all 60-ish, and well, after listening to the tracks to mix them, the performances are average to below average, some off key singing and vanilla performances. Some songs are actually painful. They were very good when I was with them, but that was...25+(?) years ago...and what kills me is that they're performing many of the same songs that I played with them, and the said they been practicing them just for the demo (!)... I know the answer, we're still friends, I'm not even going to come close to hurting their feelings, but it's time to stop. There's no money involved for the recording, I'm just doing it out of friendship...we have a beer or two and reminisce during the recordings, and it's good to see them again. This Saturday afternoon will be the final of 3 sessions. I'm going to do the best job I can, give them the recordings and wish them good luck. I guess I don't know where I'm going with this, I just wanted to think out loud...sorry for rambling...
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Re:Just Keep My Mouth Shut, Right?
January 19, 10 9:37 AM
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I've been there... follow your heart. You probably already know about how hard it is to make a horse drink. best, mike
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Crg
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Re:Just Keep My Mouth Shut, Right?
January 19, 10 9:50 AM
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It all depends on how much effort you and them want to put into cleaning the tracks up for a finished demo that club owners will not find fault with. Once the drinks are flowing and the gig is going mistakes might not be noticed as much. But the burn't out booking agent will not want to deal with it. You're all old freinds and wouldn't have hesitated to bust each others balls back in the day over mistakes so why settle for less now?
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spacey
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Re:Just Keep My Mouth Shut, Right?
January 19, 10 10:00 AM
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That's a great thing about music/ playing an instrument. It's just a "reason" sometimes. Bring back old times...a reason to get together with old friends...something to share while enjoying the company. Sure doesn't mean the music has to be good to you, it can just be good for you.
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skullsession
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Re:Just Keep My Mouth Shut, Right?
January 19, 10 10:08 AM
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I'm with these guys.... As a very close friend of the band, I'd think they'd appreciate you pushing them to get it right. You did say that they were trying to get work with the demo, so it's probably important that it doesn't suck. And, like it or not, guess who's name will also be out there because of the demo. Uh huh....yours. I suggest you tell them your concerns. Tell them they have to buy the beer, and start over. After all...there's nothing wrong with a few more beers and some good times jammin' with old friends, eh? And if you don't think it can get any better, there's nothing wrong with punting. I've done it several times before....life is too short to mix loose, out of tune crap! :o)
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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Re:Just Keep My Mouth Shut, Right?
January 19, 10 10:28 AM
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My experience is that hardest thing to do is get a group of friends to work on one or very few songs at a time... usually they want to do the set list. The best thing to do is provide them with work in progress tapes... although having done this, I have seen many times the obviously out of tune singer who keeps breathing in the mic will listen to the playbacks and decide to go find a better engineer. Sometimes it helps... at least one or the other party. :-) I try to work a song at a time. If you can teach them how to multi track with overdubs... actually teach each band member what is expected of them then the sky is the limit with regards to potential quality. They have to want to work with you. So have friendly chat... and make it seem easy... you just need them to do it a bit differently. "ahh... that was great. can we do it once more... just to see what happens?"
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arnie guitar
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Re:Just Keep My Mouth Shut, Right?
January 19, 10 5:13 PM
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Thanks to everyone for taking the time to post a response. I think what I'm getting from everyone is to tactfully, and gently, encourage them to do their best, and to explain to them what and why I'd like certain things done differently. As one poster said, they may appreciate it. I have been trying to keep things upbeat and positive...tapping my hand/foot...nodding my head to the beat...making them feel I'm enjoying their performance and that things are going well. You know, one thing I'm embarrassed to admit...on the first session, the guitarist was out of tune, on a song that was only guitar and vocal, after I listened to the recording, I thought, how in the **** did I miss that?!?!?! Being a guitarist on top of it!!! Thankfully he left the guitar with me (an inexpensive hollow body/jazz type guitar, like an ES-175) and I checked the intonation to find it was WAY out...so after getting his permission, out came the old tube Conn StroboTuner, and she sounded 110% better. The band consists of 4 people, a female singer ( a major babe in her prime, and still takes pride in her appearance) who has a pleasing timbre to her voice, good range and excellent vibrato control; a guitarist/singer who is a versatile musician, he played keys when I was with them, and also plays violin, sax, he's a High School music teacher; a bassist/singer; and a drummer/singer... As has been stated, it's good to be around old friends with a common interest, and enjoy each other's company. Even though I'm an old (52) hobbyist recorder, ( I bought a bee-randy new TEAC A-3440 reel to reel with matching DBX when they first came out, and I still own it ), this is the first time I've worn only the engineer/producer hat, and I was SO nervous about doing things well and not letting them down, that I forgot some things...there was so much to do...I tip my hat to you guys who do it regularly. Thanks so much again to everyone who posted, you've provided me a great perspective to view all of this from. Arnie
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bitflipper
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Re:Just Keep My Mouth Shut, Right?
January 19, 10 7:38 PM
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I've been there, too. It's like having to help a friend move: you really can't decline even though you know it's going to be an unpleasant experience. So you take a deep breath and jump in, do the best you can for the sake of friendship. Just make sure your name doesn't appear anywhere on the packaging.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Slugbaby
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Re:Just Keep My Mouth Shut, Right?
January 19, 10 8:29 PM
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My $.02: Go ahead and do it. Express your concerns, critique where you need to, but try to keep it fun. If you're a 52-yearold hobbyist, making a mediocre recording isn't going to be the end of the world. It'll hopefully be a good time, likely teach you a few new things, and possible end up with something surprising. If the demo ends up sucking, well... you're not the artist, shrug it off with a grin.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Just Keep My Mouth Shut, Right?
January 19, 10 9:34 PM
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Well a lot of good though here.... I would suggest that you let them make the call.... Do a good job of mixing the music you have...... then invite them over to listen...you just set there and be quiet...... then ask them what they think. They might set there and listen a few minutes and they'll either say.... "Man that sounds good" or "Wow....that really sucks..... can we do those tracks over?" at least you're not making the call and telling them they sound bad........whatever they say..... let it set for a few seconds or so...and grab another beer, and agree with them. Handle it with delicacy........If you're brutally honest, you might loose some friends.... so let them make their own call. I'm not saying to be dishonest with them.... but I have seen more than a few friendships end over something stupid like that.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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savageopera
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Re:Just Keep My Mouth Shut, Right?
January 19, 10 11:47 PM
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Tough call...... Probably too late for my comments. Its nice to be nice, but it rarely gets the job done. The old adage "tape doesn't lie" should still apply. No one can ever talk themself into a good recording. I guess it depends on the objective. However, I think stark honesty between friends is always best. Respect only has value when earned. Nothing worse than hearing a recording that is embarrassing to all involved because someone didn't take control and make decisions before hitting "record". More than once I had to fire one of my best friends because they just couldn't cut it. I don't know if this helps but time and energy are precious and not to be squandered. Fun's fun and work is work. Any musicians that are "60-ish" should know the difference. A project like this can be a great experience for all involved, if the participants roll up their sleeves and get to work, leaving their egos at the door...............and if everyone agrees on the objective...............good luck.
post edited by savageopera - January 20, 10 0:52 PM
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Goldtop56
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Re:Just Keep My Mouth Shut, Right?
February 01, 10 2:03 AM
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A wise man from Nashville once told me to clearly mention an issue/problem twice and then shut up. I sometimes slip, but I still try to stay with that thought. Thanks.
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