cclarry
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/09/30 20:18:07
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These things are why I love the CH &(CB)!!!
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Randy P
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/09/30 20:29:39
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dmbaer
rsp@odyssey.netIf I can't figure something out myself, I'll consult the Garrigus book, or I'll PM a forum member I respect and get help that way.
Not to trying to criticize your style, Randy, but I would hope that that forum member you respect would turn around and ask you to post your question on the forum. When someone is taking the time help someone else out, their response to you might be of use to others as well.
No offense taken. Here's what I have done in the past. If I see someone that's somewhat new ask a question or is having an issue I can help with, I have PM'd them with my assistance. That way I've avoided the tools and trolls upstairs from jumping in with their incessant childish comments. I could post examples such RTFM and other tripe, but I won't. These PM's have been very much appreciated. That's just my style. I gave up trying to help in that forum in an open way long ago. Randy
http://www.soundclick.com/riprorenband
The music biz is a cruel and shallow money trench,a plastic hallway where thieves & pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. Hunter S. Thompson
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Rain
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/09/30 21:36:12
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cclarry
Yesterday, Rain, who I deeply respect, was attacked for expressing the fact that he didn't
like the X Series interface...
Thanks Larry - I appreciate you mentioning it and it certainly goes both ways. :) What's sad in those cases is that I often feel like it's nothing but one huge misunderstanding, and since I prefer peace to conflict, I am always ready to apologize and move on - but it seems like some people feel that they can tell your intentions better than you. That's exactly what caused the previous incident. In french we call that "un procès d'intention" - that is judging someone on their assumed intentions rather than their actual words or deeds... The worst part about it is that, because english isn't my first language, I'm usually more careful and quite quick at assuming the fault and taking at least part of the blame - there is always the possibility that what I said didn't come out right. Therefore, I tend to yield. I tend to speak rather candidly because I consider people here friends - I'm naturally inclined to be honest and friendly. It's like family. We aren't playing games and such. Being called for BS is pretty much a slap in the face. Fortunately, most folks around here can appreciate it exactly for what it is. But it's reassuring when people like you and the rest of the guys actually confirm that.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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craigb
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/09/30 22:02:28
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alexoosthoek
cclarry
I'm going to keep this brief..
It seems to me that "most" here in this forum, usually the younger guys, but not exclusively,
have a problem with anyone expressing a "point of view" opposite to theirs, and simply
cannot remain objective, or be courteous about it....
We have to realize that "everyone" and "everything" is NOT the same...
that others are entitled to their opinions, every bit as much as you are entitled to yours..
I'm appalled and disheartened by the sincere lack of respect and derogatory comments
that keep popping up in the threads upstairs...and it really makes me want to leave this
forum...
Yesterday, Rain, who I deeply respect, was attacked for expressing the fact that he didn't
like the X Series interface...
Today someone posted info from other forums that talked negatively about X3,
but stated he was excited about X3, etc...and he got bashed for "sharing negative"
information....
The overall CHILDISHNESS of others in this forum is turning me AWAY from Sonar...
If members can't interact in a courteous manner, express thier views in a courteous way
and not be BERATED, then really I see no point in being here or using this software,
regardless of how GREAT it may be...
Professionalism is Professionalism....so be that...not a CHILD, and allow others to express their
opinions freely, just as YOU have the right to do...don't call them names or berate them...
+1
Don't behave on the forums any different as in real life ................
Carry on.
Heh, the sad thing is, some aren't. The only unfortunate thing is that we can't stuff them upside-down in a trash can over the internet. 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/09/30 22:50:34
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Today I was told that I am "negative" and if I don't find the reason for it, I could lose my happiness and creativity. Just because I mentioned some of my X3 disappointments. I didn't even post all of my disappointments. It's ok, I had a two hour vocal session with a client tonight and he's happy with my production of his tune. We comped his vocal and all I have to do is mix it and another track is done. And I was happy, happy, happy. How did I find my happy thought you may ask? I used Studio One for the session, that's how. Funny, the tracking and comping of the vocal track was remarkably like the demo of the new comping in X3. Only, it's been available in S1 for a long time. 
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soens
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 00:35:54
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People who call you "Negative" are being... well... negative. Apparently you're in good company.
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craigb
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 02:09:50
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If you can be doubly negative, then that might be positive, ya?
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Linear Phase
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 02:57:32
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☄ Helpfulby Linear Phase 2013/10/01 02:57:59
EDIT = it seemed funny and clever when I originally posted it; on second thought I decided it twas snot funny nor clever enough snot to be snedited.
post edited by Linear Phase - 2013/10/01 03:10:28
too many lasers... Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 06:53:04
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"I was told that I am "negative" and if I don't find the reason for it, I could lose my happiness and creativity."
I am probably just a frustrated literalist but that seems like a violation of the TOS.
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cclarry
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 07:41:26
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☄ Helpfulby Rain 2013/10/01 16:07:34
Rain
cclarry
Yesterday, Rain, who I deeply respect, was attacked for expressing the fact that he didn't
like the X Series interface...
Thanks Larry - I appreciate you mentioning it and it certainly goes both ways. :)
What's sad in those cases is that I often feel like it's nothing but one huge misunderstanding, and since I prefer peace to conflict, I am always ready to apologize and move on - but it seems like some people feel that they can tell your intentions better than you. That's exactly what caused the previous incident.
In french we call that "un procès d'intention" - that is judging someone on their assumed intentions rather than their actual words or deeds...
The worst part about it is that, because english isn't my first language, I'm usually more careful and quite quick at assuming the fault and taking at least part of the blame - there is always the possibility that what I said didn't come out right. Therefore, I tend to yield.
I tend to speak rather candidly because I consider people here friends - I'm naturally inclined to be honest and friendly. It's like family. We aren't playing games and such. Being called for BS is pretty much a slap in the face.
Fortunately, most folks around here can appreciate it exactly for what it is. But it's reassuring when people like you and the rest of the guys actually confirm that.
It's my pleasure Rain. I've listened to your objectivity and know that you are a person deeply embedded in the music community. It always amazes me that if you state something objective, even if true, the fanbois feel it's an afront to the product or that you're just being a "hater", when nothing could be farther from the truth. I, personally, chose not to live in a "Box", to see things objectively, make sure I understand the thread, and then comment in kind. Most don't like that. They want you to "fluff their feathers" and make them feel "happier" about their own personal opinion. It's sad that they have to resort to childish sarcasm and berating people for that. I, for one, am HAPPY to know and interact with people such as yourself, Mod Bod, and all the guys here in the Coffee House, who, even if they disagree, are kind, courteous, and even humorous about it, rather then being abrasive. One of the posters stated something to affect, about my defense of these posters: cclarry, your self appointed role as forum police is becoming annoying... So to all of you here, MANY THANKS FOR READING AND FOR CARING! Larry
post edited by cclarry - 2013/10/01 09:50:48
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Moshkiae
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 08:20:08
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cclarry
...
It seems to me that "most" here in this forum, usually the younger guys, but not exclusively,
have a problem with anyone expressing a "point of view" opposite to theirs, and simply
cannot remain objective, or be courteous about it....
...
You, sir, have obviously not been told that the world is not a fairy tale, and that people in a (supposedly) public board, have to behave like they never would to their wives or kids. It's become bizarre, weird and strange, that many of those comments are just like boys showing off their weewee size, and how good they are with software and what grand musicians they are copying everyone else! I always like the comment ... dirt belongs under your feet! ... notice I didn't say the carpet!
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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cclarry
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 09:49:49
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Moshkiae
cclarry
...
It seems to me that "most" here in this forum, usually the younger guys, but not exclusively,
have a problem with anyone expressing a "point of view" opposite to theirs, and simply
cannot remain objective, or be courteous about it....
...
You, sir, have obviously not been told that the world is not a fairy tale, and that people in a (supposedly) public board, have to behave like they never would to their wives or kids.
It's become bizarre, weird and strange, that many of those comments are just like boys showing off their weewee size, and how good they are with software and what grand musicians they are copying everyone else!
I always like the comment ... dirt belongs under your feet! ... notice I didn't say the carpet!
Moshkiae, I couldn't agree more...
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 10:11:42
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This might be contentious, but I'd be interested to see how many of you share my opinion that the most frequent offenders are those that loosely fall into the 'fanboy' category. Obviously, there are exceptions, but in general, it seems to me that the guys with genuine problems - that they just want sorted - are usually the calmest and most rational posters. And what eventually provokes them out of this behaviour is often the completely irrational and confrontational views they are met with. In any walk of life, we like to 'belong' to a group, to be one of the guys if you like, and it's human nature to stand up for your buddies - even when they're in the wrong. But to take those feelings and project them on a piece of software, and on the company that creates it, especially when the cold facts dictate on occasion that the fault lies with them, is just about as irrational as you can get. Don't get me wrong, if somebody asked my opinion about Cakewalk and SONAR, I'd be happy to subjectively recommend their products and advocate the features they have to offer. But that would never prevent me from also objectively passing on any negative information I thought was relevant. If you look at the abhorrent treatment that some of those with on-going legitimate and frustrating problems with SONAR have been subject to, it makes you wonder where the sycophantic motivation of some people comes from, other than an overwhelming desire, as I've alluded to above, to be seen to be on the 'winning team'.
post edited by SteveStrummerUK - 2013/10/01 10:14:29
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cclarry
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 11:31:22
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SteveStrummerUK
This might be contentious, but I'd be interested to see how many of you share my opinion that the most frequent offenders are those that loosely fall into the 'fanboy' category.
Obviously, there are exceptions, but in general, it seems to me that the guys with genuine problems - that they just want sorted - are usually the calmest and most rational posters. And what eventually provokes them out of this behaviour is often the completely irrational and confrontational views they are met with.
In any walk of life, we like to 'belong' to a group, to be one of the guys if you like, and it's human nature to stand up for your buddies - even when they're in the wrong. But to take those feelings and project them on a piece of software, and on the company that creates it, especially when the cold facts dictate on occasion that the fault lies with them, is just about as irrational as you can get.
Don't get me wrong, if somebody asked my opinion about Cakewalk and SONAR, I'd be happy to subjectively recommend their products and advocate the features they have to offer. But that would never prevent me from also objectively passing on any negative information I thought was relevant.
If you look at the abhorrent treatment that some of those with on-going legitimate and frustrating problems with SONAR have been subject to, it makes you wonder where the sycophantic motivation of some people comes from, other than an overwhelming desire, as I've alluded to above, to be seen to be on the 'winning team'.
That is soo apparent upstairs that's it's ridiculous...and it's sad all the way around.. and it really does drive people, who would have excellent information to share, OUT of the forum, and sometimes even to other software... The "I have no problems, therefore your problems DON'T exist, and you're just a hater so shut up" attitude is really bothersome...we should be looking, professionally and courteously, to help our co-forum members make rational decisions...not belittle them with sarcasm and slander. Granted, there are the ones who are only out to "discredit", but, as I stated, if the product is strong enough on it's own...anything they have to say will be "null and voided" and the mods should have no fear of that whatsoever... Great post and observations Straummy....well said..
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 12:41:28
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2013/10/01 12:41:41
cclarry
That is soo apparent upstairs that's it's ridiculous...and it's sad all the way around..
and it really does drive people, who would have excellent information to share, OUT
of the forum, and sometimes even to other software...
The classic example of this happened with Bub. He'd suffered genuine and well-documented problems with the software, and was never anything more than completely polite and rational in trying to get these difficulties resolved. Yes, he stood up for himself on occasion, but only after some persistent and severe provocation. He got banned for some contravention of the TOS agreement, in circumstances that, in my opinion, others have got clean away with, and on numerous occasions. Eventually, he got a permanent ban for the alleged crime of advocating a rival DAW to other forum members in a Private Message. He assures me, and I've no reason to disbelieve him, that although he'd mentioned how other DAWs performed in comparison to SONAR, he certainly wasn't deliberately bad-mouthing Cakewalk in order to convince others to stop using SONAR. I'm pretty certain, again, that others have said a lot worse about Cakewalk in open forum and not even been warned. I'm guessing that the Cakewalk Mods don't have access to our PMs, so what makes the circumstances surrounding this even worse in my opinion, is that someone he was actually trying to help reported him for this perceived crime. Even now, on another DAW's forum, Bub still continues to talk about Cakewalk less in a negative and disparaging manner, but from a position of regret that he never managed to get the software he obviously loved, and invested a lot of cash in, working properly.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 12:42:49
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Sorry about the accidental self-'helpful' thing ^^^^^^ I intended to copy my post's address..
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 13:40:55
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I think there are a some folks that exist in a state of irony and hypocrisy. I think that examples can be found at any point along the spectrum from ardent admirer through severe critic of Cakewalk's products or operation. best regards, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2013/10/01 18:33:54
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cclarry
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 14:53:03
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I agree Straum...
Bub was a good guy....had no problems with him, and he was always cordial and
courteous, unless "driven" into the corner...
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McQ ...you're right on the money...they thrive on it and can't live without it...
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paulo
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 15:13:49
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alexoosthoek
Don't behave on the forums any different as in real life ................
Maybe they're not. Some people are dickheads in the real world.
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paulo
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 15:27:54
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cclarry
I agree Straum...
Bub was a good guy....had no problems with him, and he was always cordial and
courteous, unless "driven" into the corner...
I don't want to speak ill of the departed, so to speak, but to be honest he came across quite obnoxious sometimes and just before his ban also seemed a little paranoid about Cakewalks attempts to mess him up for having the nerve to be an unhappy customer. Maybe I just mis-interpreted, as is easy to do when communicating in this manner, but if I saw it that way, then maybe CW did too ? I do agree that those who posture about hypocrisy and such and constantly try to assume the moral high ground are often the worst offenders when it comes to plain and simply setting out to cause trouble. I have a relative like that. It's often been said by other family members that she could start a fight in an empty room.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 16:10:39
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paulo
cclarry
I agree Straum...
Bub was a good guy....had no problems with him, and he was always cordial and
courteous, unless "driven" into the corner...
I don't want to speak ill of the departed, so to speak, but to be honest he came across quite obnoxious sometimes and just before his ban also seemed a little paranoid about Cakewalks attempts to mess him up for having the nerve to be an unhappy customer. Maybe I just mis-interpreted, as is easy to do when communicating in this manner, but if I saw it that way, then maybe CW did too ?
Maybe, maybe not. I'm certain Bub wouldn't deny he probably got on the wrong side of Cakewalk, but I'm pretty sure that what got to him the most (hence the possible 'appearance' of paranoia) was the fact that he was only guilty of offences that were being committed by lots of other contributors and going completely unpunished and ignored. And coincidentally or not, the vast amount of unpunished posts were from guys who openly love SONAR - 'fanboys' if you like. paulo
I do agree that those who posture about hypocrisy and such and constantly try to assume the moral high ground are often the worst offenders when it comes to plain and simply setting out to cause trouble. I have a relative like that. It's often been said by other family members that she could start a fight in an empty room.
Amen to that.
post edited by SteveStrummerUK - 2013/10/01 16:11:40
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Shambler
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 16:13:43
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I haven't yet participated in this thread...
that's sorted then.
SONAR Platypus on Win10 64bit. Studio One Pro / Cubase Pro 9.5...just in case. 8GB i7-2600 3.4GHz Gigabyte Z68XP-UD3P Geforce GTX970 Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd Gen Prophet 12/Rev 2/Virus Snow Zebra2/DIVA/NI Komplete 10
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 16:17:24
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mike_mccue
I think there are a some folks that exist in a state of irony and hypocrisy.
I think that examples can be found at any point along the spectrum from ardent admirer through severe critic of the any product or operation.best regards,mike
Mike, far be it for me to accuse you of being vague on occasion, but how can anyone " exist in a state of irony and hypocrisy"? To me, your use of rather flowery language here, as is often the case, just makes it a bit easier for you to come back later and explain what you really meant when you get called on it. And would you care to name names?
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 16:48:14
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I was in a state of irony and hypocrisy once. I drove across the border and entered a state of denial. (or did I?)
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paulo
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 16:52:40
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SteveStrummerUK
Maybe, maybe not. I'm certain Bub wouldn't deny he probably got on the wrong side of Cakewalk, but I'm pretty sure that what got to him the most (hence the possible 'appearance' of paranoia) was the fact that he was only guilty of offences that were being committed by lots of other contributors and going completely unpunished and ignored. And coincidentally or not, the vast amount of unpunished posts were from guys who openly love SONAR - 'fanboys' if you like.
Yeah, that does seem to be the case at times. To the extent that I have sometimes wondered if the culprits are actually afilliated to CW in some way as their apparent immunity to any kind of moderation is very noticeable. That said, it would be an odd way for a company to behave on their own forum.
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bitflipper
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 17:37:47
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What on earth are you guys talking about? Do you never spend time on KVR or Gearslutz? This place is the picture of civility and rational discourse compared to those places.
Plus we've got UbiquitousBubba. They don't.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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paulo
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 17:44:02
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bitflipper
Do you never spend time on KVR or Gearslutz? This place is the picture of civility and rational discourse compared to those places.
No. You already know the reason. ;)
post edited by paulo - 2013/10/01 18:34:04
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webbs hill studio
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 18:29:07
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rsp@odyssey.net
Life is too short to put up with tools and trolls.
Randy
ha- a moment of clarity on a messy morning in the CH. you should do Randy`s Thought for the Day
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 19:02:58
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SteveStrummerUK
mike_mccue
I think there are a some folks that exist in a state of irony and hypocrisy.
I think that examples can be found at any point along the spectrum from ardent admirer through severe critic of the any Cakewalk's [sic] product or operation.
best regards,
mike
Mike, far be it for me to accuse you of being vague on occasion, but how can anyone "exist in a state of irony and hypocrisy"?
To me, your use of rather flowery language here, as is often the case, just makes it a bit easier for you to come back later and explain what you really meant when you get called on it.
And would you care to name names?
No Steve, I don't care to call out names. For one thing I think the calling out of people in the third person is one of the primary bad habits of people that exist in a state of irony and hypocrisy. For another thing I like to admit when I fall into that practice and welcome suggestions of correction for it and so, if I have the sense to not do it I would rather just not do it. Finally, I feel that arguing or debating with any person, who isn't self aware enough to want to avoid making ironic or hypocritical statements, is useless so I prefer to ignore the persons whom I might identify as indulging in the habit. (to be clear... I am not implying that I am arguing with you or that you are one of those persons) I don't think I was speaking in flowery terms, but you may. I don't do so to annoy you so I regret that it seems to have done so. I am certain that I am not being vague as some sort of tactic and if you feel that way I'll count on the idea that we can agree to disagree on that point. In short I don't think the people I am referring to are capable of inferring that I am referring to them. I have learned to enjoy correspondence with people who know who they are and I try to ignore opportunities to argue with those who don't seem to know who they are. Every now and then I lose my cool and I address some person directly and speak my mind. I'm much to polite to do that in a third person context. :-) Some one else here made a thoughtful post that sort of summarizes one aspect of how I feel and may offer some abstracted description of what I consider a commonly encountered symptom of irony and hypocrisy: "If there's one thing I can't stand its negative comments about negative comments!" To be clear, that is not a vague implication that I think anyone involved in this discussion is speaking negatively. This thread seems to be a thoughtful discussion about stuff that seems hard to understand. For example; I really can't understand how people can contradict them selves repeatedly and expect other people to pay attention. It confuses me. Anyways, I don't think I can be any clearer than that. all the best, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2013/10/01 19:31:51
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jbow
Max Output Level: -0.2 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7601
- Joined: 2003/11/26 19:14:18
- Status: offline
Re: Just an Observation...
2013/10/01 19:33:34
(permalink)
Larry, just be glad that you aren't one of the idiots. I don't understand why some people act the way they do... it catches me by surprise all the time.I don't know why people feel the need to bash other people for their opinions or the need to bash a product like X3. If someone has a legitimate gripe or they just don't like the way it looks there should be no problem with them saying that. People can use something else if they don't like Sonar.
Don't let 'em bother you Larry and whatever you do...don't become like them and don't let them run you away or mess up your day. We need you around here.
J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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