Beepster
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 09:45:12
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That said... maybe you guys should try again and this time require the user's s/n or make the survey only available through the user's store account. Heck, the competition could very well try to skew the results to try and gain an edge in the market.
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John
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 09:46:43
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Beepster Keeripes. Maybe they are trying to figure out what areas of X2 need the most attention in regards to the next patch. In that case as someone who actually owns and likes X2 I wouldn't want rabble rousers, malcontents and trolls skewing the results. Not specifically calling anyone here those things but the internet is full of that type and if the survey was made public they could sabotage the efforts being made by the bakers. Seriously, calm down. There is the feature request and problem reporter avenues to air your grievances and make suggestions. We paid for X2 therefore our input is more insightful and relevant. Want to fill out the survey? Buy the product.
Here here. Clearly you get it! But then you always did.
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John T
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 09:49:40
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Give Mike a break everyone. It's not easy recording the world's smallest violin.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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ekral
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 09:50:20
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I think this is just a survey. There was no warning that is not for all Sonar X2 user and most questions were just general about X2 (notation, mastering, stability, ...). And I just followed the link. But if it is so serious, and as the essential user I am not allowed to express my X2 preferences, I could easily move to another DAW. There are so many alternatives.
Sonar X3 Studio 64-bit, Roland QUAD-CAPTURE (driver 1.5.1), Windows 8 Pro 64-bit, XNL Addictive Drums 64-bit, DiscoDSP Corona 64-bit
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 09:53:44
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
mike_mccue
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk] The survey is meant for owners of X2 Producer.
Yes, in the comments section I opined that this was short sighted of Cakewalk to source it's feed back from a small data set and I suggested that Cakewalk endeavor to locate some of the people who have declined to purchase its latest offering to see why that is. I hope, perhaps, that someone reading the survey comments will choose not to ignore that sort of suggestion the way it is ignored here at the forum. I'm looking forward to an improved SONAR in the near future. all the very best,mike
So we should ask people who don't own SONAR X2, how their experience with SONAR X2 has been. Yep, that makes a lot of sense. Small data sample? Who told you that? The amount of misinformation you spread is alarming. And instead I should solicit a few of the people who declined to purchase? And base decisions about X2 on that? And of course that's not a small data set there.
OK I admit, I was wrong about the "15th". The document, was prepared on the 8th but it was not released until the 17th. It describes the 3rd year running for a year to year decline in sales in music production software. It is public knowledge. You can go read it yourself. I'm suggesting that you source some info from all the folks that used to buy SONAR when it experienced year to year growth in sales. The worst part is to consider that you rely on a premise that I can not decide that I don't want to torture myself with takes lanes and a GUI that is hard to look at until I have experienced the frustration for myself. That is symptomatic of the most basic observation I have about the current Cakewalk operation. It only wants to consider ideas that flatter it and its customers representatives demonstrate that they are more interested in arguing than listening. best regards, mike
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Beepster
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 09:54:22
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Heh, John. Oh there are many things I don't get but this seems to be a very simple matter of logic. Seems people just want to take everything personally even if it has nothing to do with them. I am however cautiously hopeful that a patch may be on the way because of this. Maybe they lined up a bunch of potential fixes (lots of different ways they could approach stuff like take lanes and whatnot) and now they are trying see what we would prefer. I should probably take a look at it.
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myconsumerclub
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 09:55:10
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Samsung I7 8 mb ram windows 8 64 bit on everything x2 & X1 producer line 6 podfarm gold interface event monitors Ibanez rg 350 guitar and GA6CE classical edirol pcr 500 keystation 88 plugins out the wazoo
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 09:55:42
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ekral I think this is just a survey. There was no warning that is not for all Sonar X2 user and most questions were just general about X2 (notation, mastering, stability, ...). And I just followed the link. But if it is so serious, and as the essential user I am not allowed to express my X2 preferences, I could easily move to another DAW. There are so many alternatives.
The email did say SONAR X2 Producer but I think you are misreading the intent. We have so many more Producer customers so because of the sample size it's easier to get a general feeling by polling that group. You wouldn't be able to answer how you feel about the Console Emulator so maybe you'd answer n/a. That might lead us to believe you don't use it instead of the fact that you don't have it. Seriously, it's not meant with ill intent. We definitely value you as a customer. Please understand our position too.
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scook
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 09:56:15
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ekral I think this is just a survey. There was no warning that is not for all Sonar X2 user and most questions were just general about X2 (notation, mastering, stability, ...). And I just followed the link.
If you read the email, the intent was clear. It would appear that you followed a link from somewhere other than the email. It really does not matter, it appears to have been an expensive mistake on Cakewalk's part.
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John
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 10:01:52
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ekral I think this is just a survey. There was no warning that is not for all Sonar X2 user and most questions were just general about X2 (notation, mastering, stability, ...). And I just followed the link. But if it is so serious, and as the essential user I am not allowed to express my X2 preferences, I could easily move to another DAW. There are so many alternatives.
You are an X2 user true but think why did CW send the survey out by email? Now I am in no position to know what CW was looking for or what sort of data they were trying to gather but because I received the email it was clear to me that they wanted only actual users to participate. I did not know that it was limited to Producers users. However, if someone had asked me for the survey I would have asked them to contact CW. It is not mine to give away. Now all I can think is that the time, as little as it was I used to fill it out, may have been wasted because some felt they had the right to distribute it as they pleased.
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John
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 10:04:53
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Beepster Heh, John. Oh there are many things I don't get but this seems to be a very simple matter of logic. Seems people just want to take everything personally even if it has nothing to do with them. I am however cautiously hopeful that a patch may be on the way because of this. Maybe they lined up a bunch of potential fixes (lots of different ways they could approach stuff like take lanes and whatnot) and now they are trying see what we would prefer. I should probably take a look at it.
Again you make a lot of good sense. Take care Beep.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 10:05:11
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
ekral I think this is just a survey. There was no warning that is not for all Sonar X2 user and most questions were just general about X2 (notation, mastering, stability, ...). And I just followed the link. But if it is so serious, and as the essential user I am not allowed to express my X2 preferences, I could easily move to another DAW. There are so many alternatives.
The email did say SONAR X2 Producer but I think you are misreading the intent. We have so many more Producer customers so because of the sample size it's easier to get a general feeling by polling that group. You wouldn't be able to answer how you feel about the Console Emulator so maybe you'd answer n/a. That might lead us to believe you don't use it instead of the fact that you don't have it. Seriously, it's not meant with ill intent. We definitely value you as a customer. Please understand our position too.
It should seem obvious that one of the pertinent and obvious optional answers should have been: "I have absolutely no interest in console emulation" If a survey doesn't allow for all of the logical replies that those surveyed may wish to convey then the survey's ability to be truly informative is undermined and the results will be biased by the limitations imposed by the provided choice of possible answers. That's like stuff you learn in survey survey 101. best regards, mike
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Beepster
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 10:06:20
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Look, Mike... for the most part I find you to be helpful, intelligent and even pleasant at times but your opinions on the X series do not reflect what the bulk of us want. You obviously have a very different vision of what you would like in a DAW and that's fine. However you speak as though everyone feels the same as you. Many of us like, even LOVE the Take Lanes and various newer features. I liked X1 but to me X2 blows it away. It's WAY easier for me to use. I've never used the previous versions but from what I've gleaned here I would probably like those as well (8.5 in particular) BUT those older versions remind me of my old Nuendo set up. I liked that as well but it was kind of stale, cumbersome and boring to work with. Every time I get in front of X2 I'm excited. I don't get tripped up with mundane stuff like digging through layers of takes to get at the ones I want. I'm not CONSTANTLY fiddling with zoom and scroll functions. I've got WAY more quality tools right out of the box. It's just a very nice program IMO. It does need some work and I certainly do hope it gets some attention but I would be very upset if they removed some of the features you complain about. To me they are invaluable and I would most definitely NOT want to go back to the old ways. Not trying to pick on you or offend but you most certainly do not speak for me with those broad statements of yours. Cheers.
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 10:08:43
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mike_mccue
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
mike_mccue
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk] The survey is meant for owners of X2 Producer.
Yes, in the comments section I opined that this was short sighted of Cakewalk to source it's feed back from a small data set and I suggested that Cakewalk endeavor to locate some of the people who have declined to purchase its latest offering to see why that is. I hope, perhaps, that someone reading the survey comments will choose not to ignore that sort of suggestion the way it is ignored here at the forum. I'm looking forward to an improved SONAR in the near future. all the very best,mike
So we should ask people who don't own SONAR X2, how their experience with SONAR X2 has been. Yep, that makes a lot of sense. Small data sample? Who told you that? The amount of misinformation you spread is alarming. And instead I should solicit a few of the people who declined to purchase? And base decisions about X2 on that? And of course that's not a small data set there.
OK I admit, I was wrong about the "15th". The document, was prepared on the 8th but it was not released until the 17th. It describes the 3rd year running for a year to year decline in sales in music production software. It is public knowledge. You can go read it yourself. I'm suggesting that you source some info from all the folks that used to buy SONAR when it experienced year to year growth in sales. The worst part is to consider that you rely on a premise that I can not decide that I don't want to torture myself with takes lanes and a GUI that is hard to look at until I have experienced the frustration for myself. That is symptomatic of the most basic observation I have about the current Cakewalk operation. It only wants to consider ideas that flatter it and its customers representatives demonstrate that they are more interested in arguing than listening. best regards, mike
We don' share our data with any third party services so how would anyone know our year to year growth or decline. Without sharing specific data with you, i'll just explain it to you in a logical sense to show how you don't know what you are taking about. In 2011 we didn't have a release of a new version of SONAR and in 2012 we did. So which number do you think would be higher? That would sorta debunk your findings right there. But that too is not a proper measure. You probably would want to look at launch numbers. And X2 was a more popular (and well received) than X1. The simple matter is this...this is a survey for SONAR X2 owners. We want to know their experiences. Would you fill out a customer satisfaction survey for Honda if you owned a Chevy? Your argument makes no sense and I don't even know why I am wasting my time answering these questions. I guess it's because I want others to know the truth and not the misinformation you spread on a daily basis. And to SONAR X2 Producer owners, wouldn't it bother you a little to know that we were basing decisions about X2 and future development on data from people who don't even use the product? That their opinion was weighted the same? That doesn't seem fair or just to me.
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scook
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 10:09:17
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It should be obvious that some are just trolling around
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Beepster
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 10:11:19
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk] And to SONAR X2 Producer owners, wouldn't it bother you a little to know that we were basing decisions about X2 and future development on data from people who don't even use the product?
Yes.
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 10:15:11
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It should seem obvious that one of the pertinent and obvious optional answers should have been: "I have absolutely no interest in console emulation" If a survey doesn't allow for all of the logical replies that those surveyed may wish to convey then the survey's ability to be truly informative is undermined and the results will be biased by the limitations imposed by the provided choice of possible answers. That's like stuff you learn in survey survey 101. best regards, mike
Hmm...or maybe an N/A would indicate that person doesn't use the feature. Versus say a SONAR X1 Producer Expanded customer going in there and answering N/A because they don't even have the feature. You see the difference? I guess I only took survey 101 and not survey survey 101.
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 10:16:54
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scook It should be obvious that some are just trolling around
HAHA. I know. He's made me late for work too. I just feel a need to clarify for others who may believe these ridiculous statements.
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jb101
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 10:21:00
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scook It should be obvious that some are just trolling around
Again, scook, I'm with you 100% there.
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Grem
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 10:29:37
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spacey
Grem It's just a survey people! Not a popularity contest! If you weren't included doesn't mean anything!
That's where you are wrong. I don't receive any mailings from Cake and haven't in many years and I'd like to know why. Andrew was kind enough to offer his help in finding out why some registered users of X2 Producer like myself didn't receive the survey.
No I'm not wrong. I'll stand by my statement. As far as your problem with not receiving emails, that's was old when X1 came out. CW should have fixed this by now. I would be PO'd also. But this survey is NOT a popularity contest, nor is it a measure of what type of user you are. It's just a survey! [edit spelling]
post edited by Grem - 2013/06/07 10:42:19
Grem Michael Music PC i7 2600K; 64gb Ram; 3 256gb SSD, System, Samples, Audio; 1TB & 2TB Project Storage; 2TB system BkUp; RME FireFace 400; Win 10 Pro 64; CWbBL 64, Home PCAMD FX 6300; 8gb Ram; 256 SSD sys; 2TB audio/samples; Realtek WASAPI; Win 10 Home 64; CWbBL 64 Surface Pro 3Win 10 i7 8gb RAM; CWbBL 64
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ekral
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 10:36:28
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scook It would appear that you followed a link from somewhere other than the email.t.
Yes, I followed the link from this forum, I think it is deleted now. I have to say, that I like many features in X2, but I am really worried about the X2 future. And as it could take several years to learn the new DAW, I would really appreciate any news or any sign what the Sonar future will be, before I purchase the producer version . Personally I already own VST synths and effects so I would appreciate stability, speed, improved notation editor and touch support. But I feel like nobody form Cakewalk (and Roland) is listen. I came from Jeskola Buzz and I also use Reaper. In case of Jeskola Buzz, if you would like to have a new feature, you could create it yourself, or get in contact with the developer and discuss it with him. And Cockos Reaper - there is nearly every week the new pre-release open for the public testing and discussion. So you could understand that this is for a completely new situation for me, to be just a passive customer. Anyway I like many features in X2 and I like many Roland product, so the survey was the only chance how to express my X2 presences.
Sonar X3 Studio 64-bit, Roland QUAD-CAPTURE (driver 1.5.1), Windows 8 Pro 64-bit, XNL Addictive Drums 64-bit, DiscoDSP Corona 64-bit
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 10:51:37
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I'd like to like to remind everyone, that if you are a SONAR X2 Producer owner and didn't get the survey (or don't get our Newsletters or marketing emails in general), make a point to update your subscription settings: http://www.cakewalk.com/manager.aspx If you still don't receive Newsletters for some odd reason, hit up our webmaster: http://www.cakewalk.com/about/email.aspx?EID=1 That's the only way we can fix it. There is no "fix it for all switch" which can flip. We can't simply email every owner of SONAR X2 Producer simply because we see they registered. We have to respect people's privacy when they opt out, and investigate cases where email addresses flag us as potential spammers. In other words, if you're not getting emails such as these for some reasons, it's a logistical issue and one that tends to be unique in every case. Don't confuse it for anything other than that. It's not personal. Contact us directly so we can look into it.
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royarn
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 10:52:07
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I'd have liked to have participated in this thread this morning, but once again forum error stopped me from posting. Clicking the submit post button failed. Roy
INTEL HASWELL Core i5 4670K Z87-K MB, 16 gig DDR3 ram, 250 gig ssd 1 x 250 gig 1 x 1TB sata 2 drives,Faderport 1, Motif ES 6, Focusrite 8i6. Windows 10 64 bit. Sonar Platinum Lifetime Updates.CbB .
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mmorgan
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 10:57:15
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I guess I only took survey 101 and not survey survey 101.
Me too too. Back on topic: I'd like to thank the Cakewalk team for soliciting my input for future product development. The X series of Sonar is far and away my favorite DAW. Keep up the good work. Regards,
Mike Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
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icontakt
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 11:02:21
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@Andrew & Ryan: The survey should have required a registered s/n, email address, etc. for users to take part in. Because it didn't, I, an Essential user, participated in it and completed it. I know, I made a mistake, but you and all Producer users here can never understand how we serious non-Producer users felt when we heard there's a chance to improve Sonar. If I were a Producer user I would probably be mad like someone here, too. So, when you do another survey in the future, please be sure you don't make the same mistake. I'll try not to make the same mistake, too.
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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ekral
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 11:06:17
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scook It should be obvious that some are just trolling around
Good to know that costumer interest in product improvement is trolling. P.S.: N/A means "Not Available" and not "Not Interested"
Sonar X3 Studio 64-bit, Roland QUAD-CAPTURE (driver 1.5.1), Windows 8 Pro 64-bit, XNL Addictive Drums 64-bit, DiscoDSP Corona 64-bit
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 11:06:53
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Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk] I'd like to like to remind everyone, that if you are a SONAR X2 Producer owner and didn't get the survey (or don't get our Newsletters or marketing emails in general), make a point to update your subscription settings: http://www.cakewalk.com/manager.aspx If you still don't receive Newsletters for some odd reason, hit up our webmaster: http://www.cakewalk.com/about/email.aspx?EID=1 That's the only way we can fix it. There is no "fix it for all switch" which can flip. We can't simply email every owner of SONAR X2 Producer simply because we see they registered. We have to respect people's privacy when they opt out, and investigate cases where email addresses flag us as potential spammers. In other words, if you're not getting emails such as these for some reasons, it's a logistical issue and one that tends to be unique in every case. Don't confuse it for anything other than that. It's not personal. Contact us directly so we can look into it.
That being said, we do have issues with a few ESPs when it comes to delivery (that are out of our control). Hotmail and comcast being the big two. We did some fixes last year that added tens of thousands of people back on but we didn't get everyone. We are still working on fixing these issues. I apologize for the inconvenience.
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 11:08:52
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ekral
scook It should be obvious that some are just trolling around
Good to know that costumer interest in product improvement is trolling. P.S.: N/A means "Not Available" and not "Not Interested"
It also means not applicable. I think most people would understand to check that if they don't use it or didnt evaluate it. We are splitting hairs.
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scook
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 11:12:36
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If someone does not understand the reason for a survey, ignores the target audience and chooses to offer opinions about their experience with a product they do not use, the meaning of the survey replies may not matter.
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Just got this mail - "SONAR X2 Producer customer satisfaction survey - New Tech Tips"
2013/06/07 11:15:16
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Jlien X @Andrew & Ryan: The survey should have required a registered s/n, email address, etc. for users to take part in. Because it didn't, I, an Essential user, participated in it and completed it. I know, I made a mistake, but you and all Producer users here can never understand how we serious non-Producer users felt when we heard there's a chance to improve Sonar. If I were a Producer user I would probably be mad like someone here, too. So, when you do another survey in the future, please be sure you don't make the same mistake. I'll try not to make the same mistake, too.
Hi Jlien X, You make a pretty good point. However, requiring that might have turned some people off from participating. We wanted to make it painless and easy as we know time is valuable. I see your point though and perhaps in the future we can find a better way to ensure they own the product but not have to many requirements that would make them pass on taking the survey.
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