Helpful ReplyKirk Hunter Group Buy - 50% Off REACHED List Prices Reduced as Much as 50% - STILL OPEN

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edrummist
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/20 17:22:30 (permalink)
gustabo
edrummist
gustabo
edrummist,
Regarding Diamond Orchestra, is the group buy purchase option for Diamond TVEC 3 or TVEC 4?




It was TVEC 3, but Kirk told me just a short while ago that he just updated it to TVEC 4 and that everyone in the Group Buy who buys Diamond will get TVEC 4 at no additional cost. So, if you downloaded Diamond and it does not have TVEC 4, all you have to do is re-open your download link page and you'll see the TVEC 4 instruments added.


Darn, I bought Diamond shortly after I posted my question to you, didn't see TVEC 4 so I purchased the TVEC 4 update...


Email Kirk. He told me he's doing a bunch of refunds today from people who purchased at the full list price and got the GB discounts in a refund. He'll take care of you. If you have any issues or don't hear back from his today, PM me with your real name and email you registered for the GB with and I'll make sure takes care of you.
 
- Peter
 
[EDIT: Oops. I missed your next post and only caught it after posting my above response. In any event, I'm glad everything got sorted so quickly and you saved even more than you originally expected!]
post edited by edrummist - 2014/02/20 17:23:48
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Sycraft
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/20 20:00:24 (permalink)
I should just keep my refund and stick with CS2 and CB2 but I want the other stuff. I don't need it, at all, but I wants...
 
Will... Weakening...
#92
edrummist
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/20 20:50:48 (permalink)
I realize a lot of people are not fans of Facebook, but for those who are, here are two Facebook groups I think are useful for Kirk Hunter Studios sample library users:
 
Kirk Hunter Studios official Facebook page. It's a very good place to get quick answers or give input on products. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kirk-Hunter-Studios/166896966681426
 
Kirk Hunter Studios User Group. This is a small, informal, group of Kirk Hunter Studios power users on Facebook. It's not something officially sanctioned by Kirk Hunter Studios, it's my own thing, but Kirk is a group member himself and it's a really small group of very talented and super nice musicians/people from all over the world, some are professional musicians, some are hobbyists.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/197101483701349/601261723285321/?notif_t=group_comment
post edited by edrummist - 2014/02/20 20:54:19
#93
MachineClaw
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/20 22:06:29 (permalink)
can someone with Diamond tell me how easy it is to use?  I can't find youtube videos etc.  I listened to the demos songs and samples on the website but.....I don't know.
 
I have Miroslav philharmonic in my IK Total Studio 3 bundle.  nice, okay and I use it from time to time.
I have EastWest symphony platinum complete and I don't use it at all, hard to use, PLAY engine is okay on my machine but really it's rather difficult  product for me to use.
 
Would KH Diamond be a good general orch library to have even though it's a bit older?
 
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lawajava
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/21 00:55:43 (permalink)
bapu
Downloading Spotlight Strings now.


Bapu - I'm also a previous customer. Aren't we supposed to get an email or something with the extra 5 percent code? You've noted you were downloading it above. What happened for you regarding the 5 percent?

Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
#95
Mesh
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/21 01:17:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby MachineClaw 2014/02/21 02:15:44
MachineClaw
can someone with Diamond tell me how easy it is to use?  I can't find youtube videos etc.  I listened to the demos songs and samples on the website but.....I don't know.
 
I have Miroslav philharmonic in my IK Total Studio 3 bundle.  nice, okay and I use it from time to time.
I have EastWest symphony platinum complete and I don't use it at all, hard to use, PLAY engine is okay on my machine but really it's rather difficult  product for me to use.
 
Would KH Diamond be a good general orch library to have even though it's a bit older?
 


MClaw, I also have Miroslav which is pretty good, but it needs a bit of "massaging" to get it to sound decent.....and with a lot of tweaking you can get it to sound really good. The Diamond Collection is just WOW as soon as you put your fingers on the keys. I was amazed immediately at the quality and rich fullness of the sounds right our of the box......no tweaking or added FX was necessary. There's a lot of good tutorials/tips at the KHS website as well. I can highly recommend this and IMO, it just blows Miro out of the water.  

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#96
MachineClaw
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/21 02:17:18 (permalink)
Thanks.  sounds like a decent library to have the toolkit.
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bapu
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/21 02:22:20 (permalink)
lawajava
bapu
Downloading Spotlight Strings now.


Bapu - I'm also a previous customer. Aren't we supposed to get an email or something with the extra 5 percent code? You've noted you were downloading it above. What happened for you regarding the 5 percent?

You have to email Kirk with copy of your receipt (proof) and he will subscribe you to a list of 5 percenters.
 
The 5% rebate will be issued by Feb 28.
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Sycraft
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/21 03:06:14 (permalink)
Sigh. I just failed my will save and so I bought spotlight and diamond. I've bought everything except pop rock and solo strings 1 at this point :P.
#99
ohgrant
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/21 10:12:36 (permalink)
First time buyer here, picked up Diamond last night, downloading now. Thanks for the info and endorsements guys

Me
 
Silhan
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/21 10:41:24 (permalink)
ohgrant
First time buyer here, picked up Diamond last night, downloading now. Thanks for the info and endorsements guys


Same here.  I had promised myself that I was done buying libraries for now, but this was too good of an opportunity to pass up.
edrummist
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/21 13:50:47 (permalink)
Sycraft
Sigh. I just failed my will save and so I bought spotlight and diamond. I've bought everything except pop rock and solo strings 1 at this point :P.



Well, if you bought Diamond, that's where Solo Strings 1 come from, so you're good on that. If you already own Concert Strings 2, that's where Pop/Rock Strings comes from (Pop/Rock Strings is a subset of the samples from CS2; PRS uses less samples per octave and doesn't have as many articulations as CS2).
 
- Peter
edrummist
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/21 14:01:10 (permalink)
Silhan
ohgrant
First time buyer here, picked up Diamond last night, downloading now. Thanks for the info and endorsements guys


Same here.  I had promised myself that I was done buying libraries for now, but this was too good of an opportunity to pass up.

 
Let's face it, any of us who go to these sections of the forum are gear/sample/vst addicts! I make an excuse that I consult to some developers, but my wife sees through it as an excuse for me to spend more time on forums talking about sample libraries and looking for new libraries. It's true.
 
Sycraft
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/21 14:41:59 (permalink)
Well, then I guess I own all things Kirk Hunter. I have no excuse either, I do nothing with any of it, all toys. I don't do anything commercial, and never will. They are just toys for me to play with. But there you go :).
edrummist
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/21 15:06:09 (permalink)
Sycraft
Well, then I guess I own all things Kirk Hunter. I have no excuse either, I do nothing with any of it, all toys. I don't do anything commercial, and never will. They are just toys for me to play with. But there you go :).



Same for me. I'm a dad with two kids and my biggest objectives are making music with my kids and passing on the joy of making music. My mom was a professional musician and music teacher, my eldest sister also was a music teacher for a time and I played semi-professionally for more than a decade, but now, it's purely out of love and the fact that I don't know how to switch off the place in me that writes songs or wants to play. That said, I want to start getting into collaboration later this year. I think working with other musicians around the world is a really exciting idea.
cclarry
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/21 15:25:24 (permalink)
Hi, I'm Larry...

And I'm a plugaholic....

Nice to meet you Larry...

Seriously...glad I'm broke...

I guess that gives new meaning to the term "PA" for a musician...


edrummist
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/21 15:42:34 (permalink)
cclarry
Hi, I'm Larry...

And I'm a plugaholic....

Nice to meet you Larry...

Seriously...glad I'm broke...

I guess that gives new meaning to the term "PA" for a musician...



Hello Larry. We're all in the same boat!
 
I'm more of a sampleholic than anything (as opposed to plug a holic). Pretty much, it's KONTAKT sample libraries for me (and drum VSTs like Superior Drummer, Addictive Drums and BFD Eco). I don't want to have to deal with more VSTs (from a learning curve perspective and from a plug in operational perspective). And there are so many talented independent sample developers making great KONTAKT libraries these days and the prices are better than ever, I don't even feel much temptation with other formats. On a little off-topic note, I was PMing with Dave Kerzner (CEO of Sonic Reality) about SampleTron, SampleMoog and SonicSynth2 and my wish those were ported over to KONTAKT and he told me that the patches in those synths are basically all are available for KONTAKT, just under different names. So, part of me is thinking, I just need to move to those in KONTAKT format rather than bothering with IK's next version of Sampletank. I checked and I purchased SampleTank 2 in 2003, 11 years ago! And I moved to 64 bit several years ago. Sure, KONTAKT and NI aren't perfect, but it's leaps and bounds better than neglecting a product like that. For my money, it's still the best thing going. I have UVI and a couple of libraries, and it's good and healthy to see KONTAKT have some serious competition, but most of the best independent sample developers in the biz are still focusing on KONTAKT.
post edited by edrummist - 2014/02/21 15:44:25
cclarry
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/21 15:53:56 (permalink)
edrummist
cclarry
Hi, I'm Larry...

And I'm a plugaholic....

Nice to meet you Larry...

Seriously...glad I'm broke...

I guess that gives new meaning to the term "PA" for a musician...



Hello Larry. We're all in the same boat!
 
I'm more of a sampleholic than anything (as opposed to plug a holic). Pretty much, it's KONTAKT sample libraries for me (and drum VSTs like Superior Drummer, Addictive Drums and BFD Eco). I don't want to have to deal with more VSTs (from a learning curve perspective and from a plug in operational perspective). And there are so many talented independent sample developers making great KONTAKT libraries these days and the prices are better than ever, I don't even feel much temptation with other formats. On a little off-topic note, I was PMing with Dave Kerzner (CEO of Sonic Reality) about SampleTron, SampleMoog and SonicSynth2 and my wish those were ported over to KONTAKT and he told me that the patches in those synths are basically all are available for KONTAKT, just under different names. So, part of me is thinking, I just need to move to those in KONTAKT format rather than bothering with IK's next version of Sampletank. I checked and I purchased SampleTank 2 in 2003, 11 years ago! And I moved to 64 bit several years ago. Sure, KONTAKT and NI aren't perfect, but it's leaps and bounds better than neglecting a product like that. For my money, it's still the best thing going. I have UVI and a couple of libraries, and it's good and healthy to see KONTAKT have some serious competition, but most of the best independent sample developers in the biz are still focusing on KONTAKT.



Couldn't agree more ed....if I could use my ST Libraries in Kontakt (and I'm sure, somehow, there's a way to port them...) I'd be good to go.  

Wait...we're never good to go...there's always that NEXT THING...LOL





Vastman
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/22 02:22:16 (permalink)
Oh, my!  Late on my mortgage...
and already have all of Kirk's stuff....
and just got Iceni, which is friggin unbelievable...
but it doesn't have those higher strings....
sure, I have ew's platnium orchestra but it's a pain and old and...
I just saw the email from Kirk while clearing out all the emails I'd missed and......
 
it'll be a perfect/state of the art complement to Iceni...
and I'm late on my mortgage, but what's a hundred bucks and....
guess I'll go back over there, even though he's swamped at the moment....
but I might forget and I'm late on my mortgage and...
I said I have enough and then I bought Aiyn's latest Diva patches which were perfect for my latest climate song and...
 
Ya know, this is the best addiction I ever had.  To think, decades ago it was speed! And, I could have ended up an alcoholic like my brother but don't go there... and all in all, I'm really healthy...
 
I luv this addiction.  Gotta go email Kirk my old purchase orders to get that last 5 percent!
 
 

Dana
We make the future... Climate Change Music
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gustabo
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/22 08:40:16 (permalink)
Has anyone that bought Diamond tried doing a batch re-save and come up with missing samples?

Batch resave of the TVEC 4 instruments was fine but a batch re-save of the TVEC 3.1 instruments shows 200+ missing samples, specifically trombone.

Batch re-save of everything showed additional missing samples of the original instrument patches but at this time, I'm more concerned with the TVEC patches...

I think that I dl'd everything and none of my dl's were corrupt...
Without an sfv file to do a crc check, its hard to tell.
post edited by gustabo - 2014/02/22 09:10:42


Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
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Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
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edrummist
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/22 10:44:04 (permalink)
Vastman
Oh, my!  Late on my mortgage...
and already have all of Kirk's stuff....
and just got Iceni, which is friggin unbelievable...
but it doesn't have those higher strings....
sure, I have ew's platnium orchestra but it's a pain and old and...
I just saw the email from Kirk while clearing out all the emails I'd missed and......
 
it'll be a perfect/state of the art complement to Iceni...
and I'm late on my mortgage, but what's a hundred bucks and....
guess I'll go back over there, even though he's swamped at the moment....
but I might forget and I'm late on my mortgage and...
I said I have enough and then I bought Aiyn's latest Diva patches which were perfect for my latest climate song and...
 
Ya know, this is the best addiction I ever had.  To think, decades ago it was speed! And, I could have ended up an alcoholic like my brother but don't go there... and all in all, I'm really healthy...
 
I luv this addiction.  Gotta go email Kirk my old purchase orders to get that last 5 percent!



@Dana It's been a while since we touched base. I hope you're well. But, please, if you're struggling to pay the mortgage, hold off on a library purchase. PM me before you purchase anything.
jma
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/22 11:47:53 (permalink)
gustabo
Has anyone that bought Diamond tried doing a batch re-save and come up with missing samples?

Batch resave of the TVEC 4 instruments was fine but a batch re-save of the TVEC 3.1 instruments shows 200+ missing samples, specifically trombone.

Batch re-save of everything showed additional missing samples of the original instrument patches but at this time, I'm more concerned with the TVEC patches...

I think that I dl'd everything and none of my dl's were corrupt...
Without an sfv file to do a crc check, its hard to tell.


I purchased Diamond, but I'm still downloading. My free time is very limited these days, so I may not be done until next week. I was also concerned about not being able to do a CRC.
edrummist
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/22 13:56:35 (permalink)
Guys, if you have any issues with your libraries, report them via email to Kirk (I would say post at the KHS Support Forum at KVR, but to be completely candid, from what I've observed, Kirk's a lot more responsive to email) and he'll get you sorted. I've witnessed posts from people using the same versions of KONTAKT where one has a great experience and another has all sorts of issues.
lawajava
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/22 14:22:57 (permalink)
edrummist - thanks for your note on reporting questions.
 
I'm sure I'll get it sorted, but I downloaded Spotlight Strings (purchased version not a trial version) and followed the install directions.  It looked like after I save the registry key he's asking for you to email him the resaved registry license so he can follow up with another link.
 
Presently, I'm installed, have emailed him and am waiting to figure out what's next.  Spotlight Strings isn't running for me yet, but looking forward to figuring out how to get there.

Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
Silhan
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/22 15:03:56 (permalink)
gustabo
Has anyone that bought Diamond tried doing a batch re-save and come up with missing samples?

Batch resave of the TVEC 4 instruments was fine but a batch re-save of the TVEC 3.1 instruments shows 200+ missing samples, specifically trombone.

Batch re-save of everything showed additional missing samples of the original instrument patches but at this time, I'm more concerned with the TVEC patches...

I think that I dl'd everything and none of my dl's were corrupt...
Without an sfv file to do a crc check, its hard to tell.


I just tried doing a batch-resave on the whole Diamond library and came up with (I think) 292 missing samples.  Most of those were referenced by TVEC 3.1, but I don't know exactly how many.  The rest seemed to have something to do with Ruby.  I went ahead and skipped the missing samples, but I don't know what the impact will be, if any.
 
gustabo
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/22 16:39:58 (permalink)
Silhan
gustabo
Has anyone that bought Diamond tried doing a batch re-save and come up with missing samples?

Batch resave of the TVEC 4 instruments was fine but a batch re-save of the TVEC 3.1 instruments shows 200+ missing samples, specifically trombone.

Batch re-save of everything showed additional missing samples of the original instrument patches but at this time, I'm more concerned with the TVEC patches...

I think that I dl'd everything and none of my dl's were corrupt...
Without an sfv file to do a crc check, its hard to tell.


I just tried doing a batch-resave on the whole Diamond library and came up with (I think) 292 missing samples.  Most of those were referenced by TVEC 3.1, but I don't know exactly how many.  The rest seemed to have something to do with Ruby.  I went ahead and skipped the missing samples, but I don't know what the impact will be, if any.
 


Yup, same error...


Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/

wst3
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/22 17:03:05 (permalink)
Kirk is, of course, the final authority on this, but from what I've figured out, this is not a problem if you have upgraded from TVEC3 or TVEC3.1 to TVEC 4.
 
What's happening is this... when you do a batch re-save Kontakt reads the NKI definition and updates the paths to the referenced sample files (wav, ncw, etc.) Now sometimes, when a developer updates an instrument they might skip certain samples, or even replace them, and in doing so they could also rename them. So that FF Middle C Pizz sample got a new name maybe?

If you keep the older (TVEC3 or 3.1)NKIs around when you do the batch re-save it will batch re-save them as well as the TVEC 4 NKIs. Not only does this take longer, it creates some confusion.

You want real confusion? There are at least two developers that leave unused samples in their packages. When you do a batch compress only the files that are referenced are compressed, so you end up with a bunch of files that don't get compressed. A real head-scratchin moment!


Now we'll wait for Kirk to correct me<G>!

-- Bill
Audio Enterprise
KB3KJF
gustabo
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/22 21:53:55 (permalink)
edrummist,
Do you know if Solo Strings 2 comes with TVEC 4 and ESA?


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edrummist
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/22 23:50:30 (permalink)
gustabo
edrummist,
Do you know if Solo Strings 2 comes with TVEC 4 and ESA?



I actually didn't know that Kirk added Solo Strings 2 as a separate item (as it's part of Concert Strings 2) to the GB. It originally wasn't part of the GB. While Solo Strings 2 is part of Concert Strings 2, and Concert Strings 2 comes with TVEC 4 and ESA, I'm not certain if TVEC4 and ESA are also bundled when people only buy Solo Strings 2.
 
The page for SS2 states that it comes with TVEC 3 (http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/products_solo_str_ii2.html), not TVEC 4 or ESA. I put an email in to Kirk to find out for certain, but I know he told me Friday that he had out of town plans for this weekend, so I don't expect he'll be ask prompt in his reply as usual, but I promise to post the answer in this thread as soon as Kirk gets back to me. 
 
- Peter
gustabo
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Re: 2014 Kirk Hunter Group Buy Update - Now at 30% Off --- PLUS -- All List Prices Reduced 2014/02/23 01:30:25 (permalink)
edrummist
gustabo
edrummist,
Do you know if Solo Strings 2 comes with TVEC 4 and ESA?



I actually didn't know that Kirk added Solo Strings 2 as a separate item (as it's part of Concert Strings 2) to the GB. It originally wasn't part of the GB. While Solo Strings 2 is part of Concert Strings 2, and Concert Strings 2 comes with TVEC 4 and ESA, I'm not certain if TVEC4 and ESA are also bundled when people only buy Solo Strings 2.
 
The page for SS2 states that it comes with TVEC 3 (http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/products_solo_str_ii2.html), not TVEC 4 or ESA. I put an email in to Kirk to find out for certain, but I know he told me Friday that he had out of town plans for this weekend, so I don't expect he'll be ask prompt in his reply as usual, but I promise to post the answer in this thread as soon as Kirk gets back to me. 
 
- Peter



SS2 is listed at $64.50 at http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/purchase.html so I figured I'd get that too but it doesn't specify what TVEC it comes with.
I already bought Pop Rock Strings during the last group buy, would it be wise to buy SS2?


Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/

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