noiseboy
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 419
- Joined: 2007/01/24 08:57:16
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/12 04:32:40
(permalink)
Alluminati - I'm getting the same thing, more or less. Started a couple of months back, it affects 3.5 as well now, and it's way worse via jbridge. It's a little more sporadic though. Often it'll be fine, then it's as if a switch gets flicked and it does its hanging thing. This can happen with a ton of ram available. Like you it's fine in standalone. Unlike you though, I LOVE Kontakt otherwise!
I just emailed tech support on Friday, I'll let you know how I get on.
|
ew
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1837
- Joined: 2004/01/27 21:24:49
- Location: Eagan, MN
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/12 11:16:26
(permalink)
Why use jBridge with 3.5? 3.5's native 64 bit... :~
ew
|
noiseboy
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 419
- Joined: 2007/01/24 08:57:16
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/12 13:06:55
(permalink)
ew
Why use jBridge with 3.5? 3.5's native 64 bit... :~
ew
Not on a 32 bit system it isn't! I always end up defending my unusual setup whenever I post anything, so as succinctly as I can (and I'll cut and paste this for me to use as a standard disclaimer)! 1 - I can't go 64 bit because Sonar has to share my crate with Pyramix. Pyramix doesn't work on 64 bit yet and won't for another year. It's not worth just trying it, btw, cos everyone else (including Merging) say it doesn't work and I believe them! Don't want the horror of dual boot either and please no-one try to convince me otherwise! Having Pyramix stable is absolutely paramount. 2 - Even using the 3gb switch, Sonar can only access up to 2GB of 3.5 available GB on any 32 bit system. 3 - JBridge (and VE Pro) run as their own processes, so this means a 32 bit user can use all available RAM on their system (which is nearly double what you can use without it). I additionally stream samples from the laptop via VE Pro, to get another GB out of it. However, as I type this, I have just realised that I should be able to add more RAM to the laptop, giving me 2GB more sample space. Whoo hoo! Off to ebuyer now... In the meantime, none of this affects the Kontakt issue - I get this problem with no jBridge or VE pro running.
|
Freddie H
Max Output Level: -39 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3617
- Joined: 2007/09/21 06:07:40
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/12 13:57:52
(permalink)
ew
The "please resave" prompt came about with the 4.1/4.1.1 update for Kontakt. I'd advise you to resave all your library, either using a batch resave (read the manual addendum first!) or by saving individual ones as you use them. Use the save the patch only and use absolute sample paths option that will come up when you save it.
It speeds up loading times dramatically. For example, the Abbey Road full kits used to take about a minute or so to load on my system; after resaving, it's down to five seconds or so.
ew
+1 Yes EW. I recommended you batch re-save all your Kontakt instruments, even own build instruments and libraries to the latest "instrument version". Take 1-2 minutes to do so. Best Regards Freddie
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
|
Freddie H
Max Output Level: -39 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3617
- Joined: 2007/09/21 06:07:40
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/12 14:00:44
(permalink)
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
|
noiseboy
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 419
- Joined: 2007/01/24 08:57:16
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/12 16:00:54
(permalink)
Can't speak for the OP, but my problems affect batch-resaved instruments too.
|
Alluminati
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 78
- Joined: 2009/10/15 18:57:18
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/12 17:50:07
(permalink)
ba_midi:
Yes I followed all the steps, what was weird is when I opened kontakt after re instaling it, my libraries were still saved there? I didn't have to add symphobia or LASS again, they were still remembered.
Also I don' tthink saving instruments will help, becuase even when it's finished loading and does NOT crash, it is still destined to crack. DELETING a sample box in Kontakt even takes a wopping 25 seconds.
|
Alluminati
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 78
- Joined: 2009/10/15 18:57:18
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/12 17:51:55
(permalink)
How do I change my username, I spelled Illuminati completely incorrectly lol.... or... is it a pun and a play off the word aluminum? yeah I spelt it wrong.
post edited by Alluminati - 2010/09/12 17:53:09
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/12 17:55:05
(permalink)
Alluminati
ba_midi:
Yes I followed all the steps, what was weird is when I opened kontakt after re instaling it, my libraries were still saved there? I didn't have to add symphobia or LASS again, they were still remembered.
Also I don' tthink saving instruments will help, becuase even when it's finished loading and does NOT crash, it is still destined to crack. DELETING a sample box in Kontakt even takes a wopping 25 seconds.
I know this won't make a bad situation better, but it sure sounds to me like there's something really wrong in your system/setup. You definitely shouldn't be having these types of problems, and most users don't. I really think you should start with the basics: 1- do a thorough memory test (there are free memory testers available on the net, Memtest is one) 2- do a thorough drive check on each drive 3- check that your CPU fan is running smoothly 4- check your power supply is smooth and blowing good air (fan working) 5- check your HD cables to make sure they are tight (I had a nightmare once where all kinds of weird things were going on and it turned out to be a bad cable!) Keep in mind that Kontakt (and similar plugins) use a lot of memory and do disk streaming. SO that would lead one to deduce the first places to look are Memory and Hard Drives. ALso - do you keep your samples on a separate drive ? I'm not sure you actually answered how you have your drive(s) set up?
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/12 17:57:01
(permalink)
Alluminati
How do I change my username, I spelled Illuminati completely incorrectly lol.... or... is it a pun and a play off the word aluminum?
yeah I spelt it wrong.
You can ask a moderator to help, if they can do that. But most likely you have to start a new user account I think. Contact the system admin here via PM.
|
lorneyb2
Max Output Level: -58.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1667
- Joined: 2007/04/26 04:02:10
- Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/12 18:18:49
(permalink)
"I"lluminati, did you see my last post on the bottom of Page 1?
|
Alluminati
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 78
- Joined: 2009/10/15 18:57:18
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/12 19:02:27
(permalink)
to lorneyb2:
This is occurring with any kontakt synth and instance. When I click on the white/blue N it reads the latest version of kontakt 4.1.1.3822. (whats the library Version and Import version supposed to read?)
I'm not sure what you mean by 32 bit, how can 32 bit even load if i'm in a 64 bit OS?
Insert - Soft Synth - vstplugins 64 - Kontakt
That's how I'm loading kontakt
|
Alluminati
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 78
- Joined: 2009/10/15 18:57:18
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/12 19:08:07
(permalink)
ba-midi: I guess that's all I can do, but I'm sure if it wwas a memory or drive issue it would be affecting cubase and FL studio as well? Unless Sonar is the only one responding this way. Also I'm not sure how to even read and observe memory tests. I rebooted my PC and checked the fan and CPU that way everything seems to be fine. To answer your question I keep all my sample libraries on my D drive What part of NYC you from? I'm moving there on Friday to attend school manhattan.
post edited by Alluminati - 2010/09/12 19:11:17
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/12 21:20:45
(permalink)
Alluminati
ba-midi:
I guess that's all I can do, but I'm sure if it wwas a memory or drive issue it would be affecting cubase and FL studio as well? Unless Sonar is the only one responding this way.
Also I'm not sure how to even read and observe memory tests. I rebooted my PC and checked the fan and CPU that way everything seems to be fine.
To answer your question I keep all my sample libraries on my D drive
What part of NYC you from? I'm moving there on Friday to attend school manhattan.
I'm in Manhattan. As I said previously - just because another host does not have a problem, it doesn't gaurantee you don't have a hardware problem. It's possible Sonar is merely "exposing" the problem. Years ago I had issues with an "update" to Sonar and went beserk trying to solve it. One of the CW programmers suggested I update my audio drivers because of some changes that would affect me. I disbelieved him initially because I kept saying "Well everything worked great until this last update to Sonar!" -- but, in the end, he was *100%* right. The audio device manufacturer released an update the fixed the problem. This was when hyperthreading came on the scene and my audio drivers simply were not written to take that into account. Sonar did. Audio drivers didn't. Morale of the story -- don't assume too much ; determine by testing your memory. If something like Memtest finds a problem it will report it clearly to you. It's easy to use. There may be more to the story here that we don't know. For example -- if you start a BLANK project (using the "blank.cwt" template that comes with Sonar) and insert Kontakt into it via the Synth Rack insert, do you still get the problem? IF NOT - then that will tell me something. IF SO - that would still suggest either a corrupt Sonar installation or a corrupt WINDOWS installation, or a corrupt or incompatible audio driver. Regardless of what it is, doing the above will tell us something. So can you try that? PS - what school are you attending here in NYC?
|
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 9871
- Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
- Location: Ohio
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/13 01:50:50
(permalink)
I'll try the re install thing I guess, but I have a feeling i'll be doing it once every couple months Once you have things back under hand... Take the time and make a backup image file using Acronis True Image (or similar). It's the ultimate safety-net against issues like this. BTW, I think the uninstall/reinstall will get you sorted out.
|
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 9871
- Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
- Location: Ohio
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/13 02:00:59
(permalink)
1 - I can't go 64 bit because Sonar has to share my crate with Pyramix. Pyramix doesn't work on 64 bit yet and won't for another year. It's not worth just trying it, btw, cos everyone else (including Merging) say it doesn't work and I believe them! Don't want the horror of dual boot either and please no-one try to convince me otherwise! Having Pyramix stable is absolutely paramount. FWIW, You could setup separate (isolated) OS boots on two separate HDs  1. WinXP (32Bit) 2. Win7x64
|
noiseboy
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 419
- Joined: 2007/01/24 08:57:16
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/13 03:40:54
(permalink)
Well for my part, my problems happen within Sonar; worse with jbridge, within VE Pro and NOT through Sonar but NEVER standalone. It seems limited to the vst versions in other words, but exists across the regular, 8 and 16 output versions. So logically whatever is different about using both 3rd party hosts Sonar and VE Pro, as compared to standalone, has to be prime suspect #1.
It did happen to me yesterday on a totally blank instance of Sonar, btw with no other programs running - hung on a first load and never came back.
IMHO there must be a software conflict somewhere along the line, something in mine and Alluminati's system that the Kontakt dll doesn't like.
|
noiseboy
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 419
- Joined: 2007/01/24 08:57:16
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/13 03:57:51
(permalink)
Ah ha!!!!! Wait a moment Billy, following my own logic and thinking about your post I just had a eureka moment - you may have hit upon it for me!
Since I updated to Kontakt 4 from 3.5, I forgot to turn off multiprocessor support within Kontakt's VST, which is known to cause conflicts when multiprocessor is enabled within Sonar. I've just switched it off, and a first test has it very responsive. I'll obviously have to wait and use it in anger for a while, but that's a really good candidate for solving this for me.... ties up with when things went wrong, and is known to cause problems. Thank you!
BTW, and unrelated, thanks for the suggestion Jim, but no thanks! Either it means swapping boot HDDs all the time which I can forsee problems with, or putting one OS on something other than a C drive, which I know will bite me on the ass for years to come.
FWIW, adding another 2GB to the laptop was so easy, cheap and obvious I'm embarrassed I never thought of it before. I can host up to 3GB of Kontakt template stuff there using VE Pro and jBridge within it, and this will make a huge difference. I've also isolated another problem within VE Pro which - if Kontakt behaves from here on in - I can simply work round. Basically I organise Kontakt instances so instruments that share samples share the same instance, keeping RAM use down. For some reason this doesn't work within VE Pro, but does within Sonar or jBridge, so it's hopefully just some rejigging there and I can liberate another few hundred redundant MB for the template.
|
Alluminati
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 78
- Joined: 2009/10/15 18:57:18
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/13 09:51:33
(permalink)
ba_midi
Alluminati
ba-midi:
I guess that's all I can do, but I'm sure if it wwas a memory or drive issue it would be affecting cubase and FL studio as well? Unless Sonar is the only one responding this way.
Also I'm not sure how to even read and observe memory tests. I rebooted my PC and checked the fan and CPU that way everything seems to be fine.
To answer your question I keep all my sample libraries on my D drive
What part of NYC you from? I'm moving there on Friday to attend school manhattan.
I'm in Manhattan.
As I said previously - just because another host does not have a problem, it doesn't gaurantee you don't have a hardware problem. It's possible Sonar is merely "exposing" the problem. Years ago I had issues with an "update" to Sonar and went beserk trying to solve it. One of the CW programmers suggested I update my audio drivers because of some changes that would affect me. I disbelieved him initially because I kept saying "Well everything worked great until this last update to Sonar!" -- but, in the end, he was *100%* right. The audio device manufacturer released an update the fixed the problem. This was when hyperthreading came on the scene and my audio drivers simply were not written to take that into account. Sonar did. Audio drivers didn't.
Morale of the story -- don't assume too much ; determine by testing your memory. If something like Memtest finds a problem it will report it clearly to you. It's easy to use.
There may be more to the story here that we don't know. For example -- if you start a BLANK project (using the "blank.cwt" template that comes with Sonar) and insert Kontakt into it via the Synth Rack insert, do you still get the problem?
IF NOT - then that will tell me something.
IF SO - that would still suggest either a corrupt Sonar installation or a corrupt WINDOWS installation, or a corrupt or incompatible audio driver.
Regardless of what it is, doing the above will tell us something. So can you try that?
PS - what school are you attending here in NYC?
I always open projects blank, it still happens when I do that. Any recommendations for memory text software? Ill be attending SAE starting on the 27th of this month
|
noiseboy
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 419
- Joined: 2007/01/24 08:57:16
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/13 09:54:42
(permalink)
Ah nuts. It was a false dawn - same old hanging happening right now after a clean start.
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/13 11:23:27
(permalink)
Ah ha!!!!! Wait a moment Billy, following my own logic and thinking about your post I just had a eureka moment - you may have hit upon it for me! Prior to version 4, using the "Multiprocessor" checkbox in the Kontakt Setup was actually a bad thing. It crashed me too. ANd once I read the manual about what it actually does, I knew NOT to use it. However, in version 4.x it actually IS used to tell Kontakt to use the multi-cores in a system. It should not be used on single cores now. Remember it has to be setup (turned on or off) in Standalone mode.
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/13 11:25:02
(permalink)
noiseboy
Ah nuts. It was a false dawn - same old hanging happening right now after a clean start.
Noiseboy - do you use the "64bit Double Precision Engine" (ie, it that ON in your Sonar Audio options)?
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/13 11:26:58
(permalink)
I always open projects blank, it still happens when I do that. Any recommendations for memory text software? Ill be attending SAE starting on the 27th of this month There's a freebie called MEMTEST out there. Memory test may not catch everything, but it's a start. Good luck at the SAE btw. Where are you moving from?
|
ew
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1837
- Joined: 2004/01/27 21:24:49
- Location: Eagan, MN
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/13 12:47:43
(permalink)
ba_midi
Ah ha!!!!! Wait a moment Billy, following my own logic and thinking about your post I just had a eureka moment - you may have hit upon it for me!
Prior to version 4, using the "Multiprocessor" checkbox in the Kontakt Setup was actually a bad thing. It crashed me too. ANd once I read the manual about what it actually does, I knew NOT to use it.
However, in version 4.x it actually IS used to tell Kontakt to use the multi-cores in a system. It should not be used on single cores now.
Remember it has to be setup (turned on or off) in Standalone mode.
Ah- no. The settings for multicore support are separate for the plugin and standalone versions. ew
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/13 12:54:15
(permalink)
Ah- no. The settings for multicore support are separate for the plugin and standalone versions. ew Oops, thanks for the correction :)
|
Alluminati
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 78
- Joined: 2009/10/15 18:57:18
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/13 14:10:32
(permalink)
~Latest news~
Kontakt works normally when I install 32bit version of sonar, using the 32 bit kontakt.
When I install sonar 64 bit and load Kontakt (up to date 64bit version) it crashes.
Now what's really confusing, is that I never used to select Insert - Softsynths - vstplugins 64 bit - Kontakt 4.
I always just used to select Insert - Softwynths - "vstplugins" - Konakt 4.
Now that Kontakt 4 is gone, now that I think about it why was it there in the first place?
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/13 21:56:54
(permalink)
Alluminati
~Latest news~
Kontakt works normally when I install 32bit version of sonar, using the 32 bit kontakt.
When I install sonar 64 bit and load Kontakt (up to date 64bit version) it crashes.
Now what's really confusing, is that I never used to select Insert - Softsynths - vstplugins 64 bit - Kontakt 4.
I always just used to select Insert - Softwynths - "vstplugins" - Konakt 4.
Now that Kontakt 4 is gone, now that I think about it why was it there in the first place?
Without *really* knowing your system (setup/configuration/drivers/etc etc), it's hard to know 'why' for anything. But if you have discovered a way for it to work - and a way for it NOT to work, I would definitley contact NI to discuss it. You might bet better results in the long run. And PS - the NI user forums have a ton of great info there too, so you might want to check that out if you haven't.
post edited by ba_midi - 2010/09/13 21:58:11
|
noiseboy
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 419
- Joined: 2007/01/24 08:57:16
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/14 18:02:03
(permalink)
Urgh, things going from bad to worse here, and no reply from the NI ticket system. As well as the hanging issue, I'm getting chronic memory problems when I do successfully load. I'm trying to build a template with Broadway Big Band. Because I'm loading multiple versions of identical instruments, this should keep the footprint very low - I estimate around 450mb in my first test case. Instead, it's using 850mb. But it gets worse... when I close this same project and immediately reopen it, the memory use skyrockets to nearly 1.7gb! I have a feeling that my hanging issues are related to this. I don't see how "bad" memory can affect the doubling of memory use, or why things are normal in standalone. Something just seems wrong with the ram handling in 32 bit on my system. EDIT - started a thread to canvass some people who can test this bug to see if it is universal. Thread here.
post edited by noiseboy - 2010/09/14 18:56:49
|
gordonrussell76
Max Output Level: -56.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1879
- Joined: 2006/12/15 05:28:08
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/15 07:03:22
(permalink)
Just a quick thought completely unrelated to your issue (or is it, who knows)
However your running a 3CPU system with 8 Gigs of Ram, surely this is a bit weird?
I thought all the new Cores from the I7 quad up have 3 channels for ram so that all Ram should be installed in multiples of 3.
8 Gig would mean you would have 2 Channels running at 3 Gigs and 1 channel running at 2Gigs of Ram?
Its not a massive issue, but something worth looking into just on the basis that for 1 extra stick of ram you might see improved performance.
G
|
Glyn Barnes
Max Output Level: -0.3 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7564
- Joined: 2009/06/10 05:12:31
- Location: A Stone's Throw from the Line
- Status: offline
Re:Kontakt 4 crashing in sonar, and sometimes crashing sonar itself
2010/09/15 07:23:05
(permalink)
noiseboy
Urgh, things going from bad to worse here, and no reply from the NI ticket system.
Try calling NI support. I have found them to be excelent on the phone but the ticketing system is painfully slow. If they need more info you will have to wait all over again. Also have you tried posting on the NI forums? Here - http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=33
post edited by Glyn Barnes - 2010/09/15 07:24:43
|