Perhaps all the people at Cakewalk and the people they have "beta testing" work in very similar ways/have very similar setups?

The statement is incisive but I don't think you take it far enough. When I began to build my system I did a lot of research. A lot was done right here. I noted components that most users found to work.  I then did as much checking as I could on the net. But what I wound up with is a system that does what I want it to do. I believe that the major reason I have had such a good time with X1 is because the system I built was well configured well built and used only proven components. Then I will say this I never pushed Sonar to the point of breaking. When I want results and people want those results from me I can't see any good reason to do stuff that will possibly cause a crash. I don't make changes while in play back. I stop what I am doing and consider just what I am going to do and why. I take my time. This way of working has served me well over the years. I find what is being talked about now with the wish that Sonar were live or some other DAW with the ability to do stuff baffling.  Sonar is not and never touted itself as Live replacement. So why insist on doing that which can bring ones system down? The surest sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome. If Sonar crashes when doing an edit while its playing back don't do that any more. Or at least don't try it on an important project. I use lots of throw away projects for testing where my limits are or for trying out new ideas in using Sonar.

If I hear another user saying I just lost two months work while using Sonar because it crashed I think I may take a plane and knock on their door then slap them across the face for being an idiot. Have you never heard of SAVE?

When was it that computers and software became so stable that we somehow think a crash is unthinkable? Why are we not using the wisdom we had in the DOS days to not let data go unsaved?

This is not rocket science people computers are fallible and by their very nature unreliable But for some unknown reason some think otherwise.

For some reason perhaps for the reasons outlined above I don't get crashes.  Vista has not crashed nor has Sonar. 8.XX upward. 

If you can by all means get the same system CW uses or have your system built by a known good DAW system provider. If you don't and you do have issues some of the reason is on you.

HumbleNoise


Uh John, I'm a huge fan of your mostly informative posts but you may have missed the spirit of this thread - by just a little. I'm not sure you'll find the word 'crash' in the entire thread and I think the OP was ranting (if I may ping) about the lack of a feature not so much about stability or system crashes. I'll stand corrected if need be.

You are so right Larry. I got carried away and started a rant. For that I apologize. I will at some point in the future copy and paste this into the right thread. Or not.

HumbleNoise


Uh John, I'm a huge fan of your mostly informative posts but you may have missed the spirit of this thread - by just a little. ..

I'm with you here, Larry!

John


You are so right Larry. I got carried away and started a rant. For that I apologize. I will at some point in the future copy and paste this into the right thread. Or not.

Lol!!!!! John, you cracked me up!

I needed a good laugh after my rant!!!!

panup


I record and edit live multi-tracked drums. My typical setup for drums is:

1 Kick in
2 Kick out
3 Snare top
4 Snare bottom
5-6 Overheads
7 HiHat
8 (Crash)Ride (optional)
9-10 Room (stereo)
11 Hi Tom
12 Mid Tom
13 Floor Tom
14 Floor Tom 2 (optional)
15-16 Far Ambience HiFi (Mid/Side)
17 Far Ambience LoFi
18 Bonham Mic (optional)

Before recording: [x] Group clips across tracks in Preferences/Record.

Recording: I put take in a new Track Folder immediately after take and archive it (whole folder).  After recording there may be 1-8 drum takes and up to audio 100 tracks (counting demo bass, gtr and vox, too).  I don't keep takes in track layers because in that case SONAR needs to read all takes from disk all the time.

This method makes it really hard to comp a single part in the takes..

For instance, if you do 2 takes and you like the verse of the first and the chorus of the second they are in to completely different spot/folders in the TV....

And then if you wanna use just the snare track out of the hook from the third take but the rest from the second take your gonna be copy pasting all over the place...

Thats why using layers is better for different takes.

What I like to do is record the second, third ect.. takes a little bit longer then the one before it and then laso the ends and group accordingly...

That way they are all right next to each other, then I use the mute tool to take out the takes I dont like and then when its all pretty close I delete anything not being used...


But Sometime I like to use audio snap before I delete the extra takes, And from what I read in another post in X1 you cant use AS on a clip by clip basis.. Only on the whole track?

I hope this is not true cause it could really mess up my flow...

I like how Pro Tools uses "Playlists" (as corrected by UnderTow) to select different takes Sonar should implement something similar to this it would solve Ping and I's problem...


SO im with ping on this gripe, it seems X1 is not geared towards engineers as much as techno/softsynth users and hip hop artist...

I have a session coming up next week with a band called Locals.. I think I'm Gonna Use X1 now that X1b is out so we will see how it goes...


  

VigilantSound


This method makes it really hard to comp a single part in the takes.. 

I like the Pro Tools uses Voices to select different takes Sonar should implement something similar to this it would solve Ping and I's problem...


SO im with ping on this gripe, it seems X1 is not geared towards engineers as much as techno/softsynth users and hip hop artist...

I have a session coming up next week with a band called Locals.. I think I'm Gonna Use X1 now that X1b is out so we will see how it goes...


 

Finally, someone who feels and understands my pain!!!! I know Vigilant, Panup's workflow is unusable for me (although I thank you Panup for trying to help).

VigilantSound

pinguinotuerto

VigilantSound


This method makes it really hard to comp a single part in the takes.. 

I like the Pro Tools uses Voices to select different takes Sonar should implement something similar to this it would solve Ping and I's problem...


SO im with ping on this gripe, it seems X1 is not geared towards engineers as much as techno/softsynth users and hip hop artist...

I have a session coming up next week with a band called Locals.. I think I'm Gonna Use X1 now that X1b is out so we will see how it goes...

Finally, someone who feels and understands my pain!!!! I know Vigilant, Panup's workflow is unusable for me (although I thank you Panup for trying to help).

Yeah, I feel ya..


You should try PT9.... Really its way better then previous versions, Beat detective is standard and works 100%

I hear ya, but I really want to give Sonar a chance.  I really like X1 and I like the company too.  This is really my only gripe and if they implement being able to select the layer of your choice, I'll be in heaven.  Plus, I love the Pro Channel and the new interface!!!!!

I sent you a PM today.  See if you have time and can give me some Audio Snap tips.  I would appreciate it. Take care.

Positively Charged


Well, this is the RANT thread, so John wasn't really that far off base. 

Can I rant about people talking on the cell phone while they simultaneously drive and work on Sonar?

Lol!!!!!!!!!!

deswind

pinguinotuerto

chuckebaby


i use record multi track drums all the time...i drag my all my kick drum tracks next to eachother so there all showing right next to eachother..i do the same with the snare..usualy 2 or three tracks with up to 3-5 layers..when i group all the tracks near eachother its alot easier to work on..do you do that?drag all your clips from say different sets??..put all your kicks together,allyour snares together..exc..then edit them like that??it makes it alot easier than scrolling down and working all over the place.

Actually I want to do the opposite.  I want to see all the different drum tracks on the screen.  I want to maintain phase relationships between the tracks which is extremely important. If you edit a kick track, and don't edit you're overheads or any other track that might've picked up the kick, then you end up with phase problems or flamming.

Agree 100%

Glad others see my point!

VigilantSound

Positively Charged


Well, this is the RANT thread, so John wasn't really that far off base. 

Can I rant about people talking on the cell phone while they simultaneously drive and work on Sonar?

Haha.....I constantly post on this forum from my cell while driving 

Aha, so it's YOU!
No, actually I blame Bluetooth devices and the Sonar Smart Tool.  Combined, they make it much too easy to drive and mouse. 

FastBikerBoy


I hear your take on layers as well. (like the pun?) If I'm working on many grouped layered tracks I tend to just have one of the tracks open to full layer view knowing that clip grouping is taking care of the rest. That's not to say I don't think you have a valid point about layer management.

I've posted elsewhere about how layers could do with an overhaul. I'm surprised you didn't mention the fiasco that is "Rebuild layers" - I have yet to see any logic or sense behind that - to the point where I daren't use it. If they renamed the menu option "Randomly mix up the layers in a different order for each track" it would at least be an accurate description of what seems to happen.

PS. You didn't really think I'd get through a post without mentioning screensets did you?

If they renamed the menu option "Randomly mix up the layers in a different order for each track" it would at least be an accurate description of what seems to happen.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's the best description of Rebuild layers ever.
 
Thanks for the ideas and suggestions FBB! I will sure try a screenset.  Been thinking about using them since I saw one of your posts.  I think they're are an awesome feature.
 
See, I love Sona,r man! I just wish they would sort a few things out--like layers.  It's such a powerful feature, yet they have left it half-baked for a while now.  They need to sort it out and make it really powerful and useful.

I also do only live drums.  And it's rarely easy.

But I'm not sure I even understand why you'd need layers when tracking live drums.  That just seems like a hassle to me.

We punch in all day long without creating a big mess of layers to comp later.  The only edits I might have to do (if there are any at all) is at each punch.  That doesn't work for you?

Maybe my way is just as much of a hassle...I don't know, because I've never done it with layers.

I know this doesn't help answer/solve your problem.  I guess I'm just curious about your process.

Hi guys,

Terribly sorry to do this but I'm going to lock the thread.

I understand that you may have a serious issue or gripe, and indeed you may use this forum to discuss it.  However with a subject line like this, there's no discernible direction or topic to be gathered when browsing through forum threads.

Feel free to start a new thread, but please use a new, relevant subject line.  Perhaps something like "Workflow issues with Multi-track Recording, AudioSnap, and Layers".

Best,
-z