Latest in birthday presents - sad news

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Beagle
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 18:05:06 (permalink)
Steve - apology accepted.  I love you as well, my friend.  I always have.  and I do agree that you don't start things, but it's very easy for someone to "push your buttons" so to speak.

and personally I agree with you that the statement "God Guts and Guns made America.  Let's keep all three." is an offensive statement, even from someone who believes in an American's right to own a gun.  statements like that do not promote peace and good will among forum members (or any social media or in person, for that matter)

But Steve, your current signature is puzzling to me at the least - even if I didn't find it offensive.  I remember once you complained about someone else's signature which had a reference to songs being "God given" and how that was offensive to you.  Are you not doing the same thing back the other direction with your signature?

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Rain
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 18:27:11 (permalink)
In regards to signature - they may be offensive. And I understand how this one can be to some.

One thing I'll tell you though -  as an atheist, I felt a bit of a relief when I saw Hitchens name in Steve's signature. 

Why? Because, overall, atheists around here aren't as vocal as religious people - like Steve said, a few will sometime react to something that's being posted, but most of the time, that's it. 

As someone who doesn't believe, these boards can leave you w/ a feeling that, as I mentioned above, you must yield to religious people and just keep quiet.

This wouldn't happen if no one mentioned religion. But it always more or less floats around - and I honestly don't think people do it on purpose to make atheists feel like second class citizens or whatever. 

As far as signatures go, I don't mind, personally. I like talking about that stuff and I hooked up w/ some very nice fellows and we had very respectful discussions.

OTOH, I'm quite sure that if anyone posted something related to the Church of Lucifer or the Covenant of Satanic Swiss Cheese or any such thing, they'd be reported and stomped upon. 

And to be perfectly honest, that's what irks me. The 2 standards. Some things are regarded by some as if they were just the norm, an exception, the right religion to talk about, the one to which rules don't apply, when they are just as upsetting to certain other members of the community. 


TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
#62
SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 18:47:53 (permalink)
Beagle


But Steve, your current signature is puzzling to me at the least - even if I didn't find it offensive.  I remember once you complained about someone else's signature which had a reference to songs being "God given" and how that was offensive to you.  Are you not doing the same thing back the other direction with your signature?

Point taken Reece, and accepted.
 
To be completely honest with you, I often feel exactly the same way as Krist has so eloquently described (in posts #55 & #62 above), and I used that signature as a way of saying 'up yours' to some of the more pious amongst us. And yes, that was a pretty hypocritical thing to do I'll concede.
 
And sometimes, I feel the only way I can address this unbalance (which really shouldn't even exist on a forum who's TOS doesn't permit discussion of a religious nature in the first place) is to counter the point that's been made, rather than just point out that it doesn't belong here.
 
Ironically, having this calm and friendly discussion about one particular TOS taboo with you and Krist has reminded me of just how good this place can be.
 
 
 

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#63
SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 18:59:56 (permalink)

And I changed my signature.

And I avoided replying to THIS - maybe someone who 'bats for the same side' might consider asking him to edit that post?

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#64
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 19:03:11 (permalink)








I don't think I even know what it means. :-S


#65
SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 19:05:17 (permalink)
mike_mccue








I don't think I even know what it means. :-S

 
It's Serbo Croat for "Fitblipper".
 
I didn't have the heart to tell Dave that there was a glaring misprint in there.
 
 

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#66
Rain
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 19:14:10 (permalink)
About that post you linked Steve - that's exactly what I meant! I'm sure Paul would be offended if someone quoted the Quran or Aleister Crowley...

There was a similar post after the Boston tragedy, saying that we needed prayers... How ironic, considering that the tragedy was caused by religious extremists... 

Personally, it felt like a slap in the face. But I yielded - I saw the compassion behind the religious speech and I thought of the TOS.

But that's one of my biggest pet peeves in this world - when people assume that rules don't apply to them. When they assume that they have the majority on their side and that the rest of the world only has to shut up. 

Like when they play Celine Dion in a restaurant because it's "normal people's music". Celine Dion gives me tooth ache. She makes me just as sick as Cradle of Filth makes their grandma sick.


TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
#67
Beagle
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 19:15:12 (permalink)
SteveStrummerUK


And I changed my signature.

And I avoided replying to THIS - maybe someone who 'bats for the same side' might consider asking him to edit that post?

discussing anything with that particular person offering his viewpoint creates a special problem for me.  If I were to ask him to change his post and tone down the religious aspect of his comments, things would not go well for either of us.
 
I have had "issues" with Paul before over what he posted on here and he has asked me to leave him alone and never "chastise" him again.  I promised that I would, so I'm going to have to keep my promise.
 
even if I agree with what he's saying, I also agree in the same manner that Rain brought up - this is not the place for it.
 
our agreement does not preclude reporting each other to the moderators if we are violating the TOS, and that's what we're supposed to do if we feel so lead.

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#68
SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 19:30:18 (permalink)
I fully understand Reece.

And I think Paul's a great guy, I wouldn't want to upset him for the world. But, as Krist says, this sort of thing happens more than you may think, and nobody ever says anything about it. Except me
 
 
 
 

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#69
yorolpal
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 19:35:07 (permalink)
I have to agree with Straummy that most of us agnostics and atheists (I may be the most strident one here...I always thought Chirstopher was too soft on the apologists;-)...that's a joke, son...a joke...) don't provoke many or any of these foo-fah-rahs. But we're likely to step into the fray when prodded by what can only be termed as either ignorant or misguided offense. I use the term ignorant in its literal sense...not perjoratively.  I'm pretty sure that most folks don't even think of how an atheist might react to anything they might say or post...or even care.  We're pretty low on the rung of public esteem...but we're also growing at a rapid rate.  So look out theists...your daughter might even marry one of us...heaven forfend!!! 

Course, I say that with love.

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#70
backwoods
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 19:39:25 (permalink)
You and stevestrummer both on the marriage block ? 


Better not speak of marriage lest it get back to the "R" word 

 
#71
SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 19:42:41 (permalink)

Goodnight all. I'd love to stay up and continue to chat with you guys but it's getting late over here in Blighty. I thought I'd mention that in case anyone replies to me directly and I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you.

I'll probably wake up tomorrow morning to find this thread has been deleted, which in a way would be a shame. Sometimes it's good to clear the air and then move on.

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#72
craigb
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 19:58:10 (permalink)
mike_mccue








I don't think I even know what it means. :-S

Well, since I (ironically) believe that BOTH the religious types AND the atheists have it wrong but let everyone believe what they want (and, no, there's really no reason for me to explain it), I can at least answer Mike's question!  The formula in Bit's signature is Einstein's explanation of the fourth dimension.  Believe it or not, but Pi is really the huge "unknown" that makes that formula possible.
 
Some other time maybe we can discuss why down, bottom and strange quarks have a -1/3 charge while up, top and charm quarks have a +2/3 charge (and, yes, the do threesomes to resolve their differences [;-] ).

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#73
tom1
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 20:06:58 (permalink)
I see no evidence or justification for me to believe in organized religion; but when I see a mountain or a beautiful sunrise I certainly can see why some people might believe in a higher power.
 
The agnostic point of view makes a little more sense (to me) but isn't that simply admitting I don't know.
 
The fact is, none of us know; We believe what we believe.
 
and I believe the more you think your beliefs are facts the more you'll be inclined to argue and be offended.
 
this is not directed at anyone; just an old man's random thoughts trying to make some sense of this thing we call life.

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#74
SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 20:07:26 (permalink)
craigb


mike_mccue








I don't think I even know what it means. :-S

Well, since I (ironically) believe that BOTH the religious types AND the atheists have it wrong but let everyone believe what they want (and, no, there's really no reason for me to explain it), I can at least answer Mike's question!  The formula in Bit's signature is Einstein's explanation of the fourth dimension.  Believe it or not, but Pi is really the huge "unknown" that makes that formula possible.
 
Some other time maybe we can discuss why down, bottom and strange quarks have a -1/3 charge while up, top and charm quarks have a +2/3 charge (and, yes, the do threesomes to resolve their differences [;-] ).

 
 
MMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...................................... pie 
 
 
 

 Music:     The Coffee House Band | VeRy MeTaL

#75
Rain
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 20:16:55 (permalink)
I hope they don't lock this thread. But I'm not counting on that as it takes very little for anything to spiral down.

Anyway, I'm actually quite happy for the opportunity to come clear and just express how certain things might make an atheist feel - w/o entering an actual religious debate. In a way, it's more about the way we all interpret the TOS.
 
I see a lot of positive things in this thread.

TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
#76
Mosvalve
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 20:31:50 (permalink)
SteveStrummerUK


backwoods


Well, I'm going to Butt out because of TOS but a guy who ewears Dawkins and Hitchens badges on his lapel is like a guy with a kick me sign on his back.

 
Why would you want to kick me?
 
Because I don't happen to believe the same fairy tales as you?
 
I often wonder how many innocent lives have been needlessly snuffed out at the bloodied hand of religious intolerance.
 
But I do ask one favour - if you really do feel the need to physically express your intolerance of my views by resorting to physical violence, please don't kick me in the brain...
 
I use it a lot to think for myself.
 
 
  Can you tell us what religion at present day has the bloodiest hands? Please tell us.
 



BobV 
 
 
 
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#77
spacey
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 20:54:10 (permalink)
After all the years I've been here I know for a fact that not a single
member knows if I have religious faith or an atheist. 

It's not the only part of my life that is personal and I don't discuss.
How others conduct themselves and the statements they make is theirs
and is of no matter to me. 
I just don't care what other people choose to believe or not and don't find
their words saying anything except about them. 


So...."does spacey have faith in a God or not?"... well that's just nobodies business but mine. TOS or not.









#78
yorolpal
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 21:30:13 (permalink)
Rock on, ol pal. :-)

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#79
Rain
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 21:55:39 (permalink)
Bob - Can we please just not get into this? That part of the discussion is behind us. Why go back?


Can you resist the urge to re-open can of worms just so you can shove your dedication to God and your faith down everyone's throat? 


THAT is exactly what the TOS is there for.


TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
#80
Mosvalve
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 22:02:34 (permalink)
I could sit and ponder whether there is a higher power or not and probably find more reasons to support there is not a higher power. One reason being this higher power has never been seen as far as I know. How do we believe in something we can't see?  Regardless of what you believe, there is one thing I think cannot be disputed as being the one thing all mankind can follow to be the best person one could be and that is the Ten Commandments. If you remove all religion the Ten Commanments can stand as the best rules for one to live by.

BobV 
 
 
 
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#81
Rain
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 22:15:35 (permalink)
If you remove all religion, you don't have 10 commandments, but 6.

The first 4 commandments for example are all about God totally irrelevant for any atheist. 

As for the rest, well it's simple common sense - just don't be an arse to people. 


Would you go on raping women and children simply because it's not written in the 10 commandments? That could have made a much better commandment no 1 as far as I'm concerned.

Personally, I think anyone can figure that out by themselves. If not, and if they need commandments provided by a divinity to tell them that, they are in a very bad position to give advices to anyone.

TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
#82
sharke
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 22:18:08 (permalink)
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Mosvalve


I could sit and ponder whether there is a higher power or not and probably find more reasons to support there is not a higher power. One reason being this higher power has never been seen as far as I know. How do we believe in something we can't see?  Regardless of what you believe, there is one thing I think cannot be disputed as being the one thing all mankind can follow to be the best person one could be and that is the Ten Commandments. If you remove all religion the Ten Commanments can stand as the best rules for one to live by.
Well yeah, if you're talking about commandments 5-10. I believe they are just common sense. 
1-4 are meaningless unless you're religious. 



James
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#83
sharke
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 22:19:30 (permalink)
Rain


If you remove all religion, you don't have 10 commandments, but 6.

The first 4 commandments for example are all about God totally irrelevant for any atheist. 

As for the rest, well it's simple common sense - just don't be an arse to people. 


Would you go on raping women and children simply because it's not written in the 10 commandments? That could have made a much better commandment no 1 as far as I'm concerned.

Personally, I think anyone can figure that out by themselves. If not, and if they need commandments provided by a divinity to tell them that, they are in a very bad position to give advices to anyone.

Damn. In the time it takes me to type out a reply.....

James
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#84
Rain
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 22:19:53 (permalink)
Sorry about that - I crossed the TOS line. 
As Steve pointed out, this tends to happen when someone insists and tries to sneak in that at least something about their religion is universal and fundamentally true. Ergo, demonstrating the validity of their faith and/or their moral.

Instead of just sticking to "Don't be an arse".


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#85
backwoods
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 22:21:09 (permalink)
Please no more religious bickering. 

 
#86
craigb
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/04 23:10:57 (permalink)
backwoods


Please no more religious bickering. 

Or political bickering.
 
Back to the music!

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#87
ampfixer
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/05 00:05:18 (permalink)
Now I have to testify.

I believe in the power of drop D tuning. I believe that tape sounds way better than digital. I believe a man can not have too many instruments. I believe in the healing power of music and I believe I've said enough.

Good night folks, whatever you believe.

Regards, John 
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#88
sharke
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/05 00:07:13 (permalink)
I believe that if you wear the same pair of jeans long enough, they start cleaning themselves. 

James
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#89
trimph1
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news 2013/05/05 00:24:46 (permalink)
mmmmm....at trains.com this type of thread would have been deleted a long time ago.

The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate.

Bushpianos
#90
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