joakes
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Latest in birthday presents - sad news
Wow, unreal. Luckily, this could not happen in Europe. [font="helvetica; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; text-align: -webkit-auto; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "] http://news.sky.com/story...2-with-childrens-rifle J
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/01 16:59:41
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So sad. Regardless of the issues this might raise, this is tragic.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/01 17:19:18
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Tragic indeed. As to the circumstances, words fail me.
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bitflipper
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/01 17:47:06
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I'm no gun expert, but isn't that rifle a single-shot bolt-action? Meaning it's not likely you'd ever accidentally load a round without knowing it. Even if you're 5 years old. I don't care if it's Kentucky or California, that's a clear case of parental negligence.
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paulo
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/01 17:55:28
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bitflipper I'm no gun expert, but isn't that rifle a single-shot bolt-action? Meaning it's not likely you'd ever accidentally load a round without knowing it. Even if you're 5 years old. I don't care if it's Kentucky or California, that's a clear case of parental negligence. It was already that when they bought the gun. (......cue the guns aren't dangerous brigade)
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trimph1
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/01 18:18:10
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Regardless of political insinuations ...very sad indeed.
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/01 18:19:46
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Yeah. Personally, I would never give a child that age a gun. In my family when I grew up, we had a few rifles. They were stored unloaded. No one ever "played" with them. We would take them to a safe place (no people or animals we cared about), set up targets, and (with direct parental supervision) have some target practice. Basic gun safety was always lesson one. We respected the weapon as well as the damage it could cause and we never took it lightly. I cannot imagine the pain and heartbreak this family is experiencing now. No matter who was at fault, I cannot grasp the depth of their pain. I cannot imagine how that five year old must feel right now. Heartbreaking.
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yorolpal
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/01 18:49:17
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As unbelievable as it might seem here in 2013, there are still plenty of misguided dimwits who, at least where I come from, do this kind of thing on an all too regular basis. 5 years old. 5 friggin years old. Irony alert: if I'm not mistaken that weapon is called "The Cricket" and is marketed specifically for kids.
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craigb
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/02 02:50:04
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I took note of the line that the 5 year-old was given the gun the year before... What's wrong with a nice Nerf gun until you at least start elementary school?
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/02 07:32:47
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spacey
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/02 09:16:03
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joakes Wow, unreal. Luckily, this could not happen in Europe. [font="helvetica; font-size: 15px; line-height: 19px; text-align: -webkit-auto; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "]http://news.sky.com/story/1085554/boy-5-kills-sister-2-with-childrens-rifle J Well I hope that thought makes you feel better. I realize that you may or may not how your presentation of this horrible event would or could be taken. You bring up the news of an American babies life being extinguished and the devastation of an unknown amount of family and friends and then shove a European pie in American faces. I can say without doubt that you are luckier than you will probably ever realize.
post edited by spacey - 2013/05/02 09:49:05
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AT
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/02 11:25:31
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Unloaded guns have killed more people than loaded ones - at least in peacetime. Anybody that gives a gun to a 5-year old deserves to be shot (the adult, not child). Might as well put them behind the wheel of car while doing 60 on the freeway. Adult supervision is the only way to learn 'em young, as we say in the south. I had a bb gun at 6 or so to shoot at the ranch, but had to wait until I was 9 for a .22. My wife was worried about guns in the house, even tho guns, mags and ammo are separate and hidden. So when our girls were 5 or 6 we went to the ranch and I let them shoot a pistol. I helped, so the kick (even from a .380) didn't smack them in the head. The power and noise (we were right next to the big tin barn so there was something for the report to reflect off of) made quite an impression on them and they never showed much curiosity about guns after that. The older one now comes out sometimes to the ranch to shoot while I work. And she is old enough now to know the rules and smart enough not to buck 'em. @
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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JClosed
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/02 12:00:50
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I really cannot understand one single bit why people even want to have a murder machine like a gun. I am really glad living in the Netherlands, where giving a gun to someone is absolutely unthinkable, whatever the age a person has. Gun possession here strictly regulated, and you have to have to pass a formal exam (and have to possess a membership from a organization that has a safe room where you can shoot) to even touch a weapon. I guess 99.9% of the people here do not even want to touch a gun if they would get payed for it. They don't like it and they do not want it. Yeah -criminals and police have guns, but the "man in the street"? No way!
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Mesh
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/02 12:24:16
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JClosed I really cannot understand one single bit why people even want to have a murder machine like a gun. I am really glad living in the Netherlands, where giving a gun to someone is absolutely unthinkable, whatever the age a person has. Gun possession here strictly regulated, and you have to have to pass a formal exam (and have to possess a membership from a organization that has a safe room where you can shoot) to even touch a weapon. I guess 99.9% of the people here do not even want to touch a gun if they would get payed for it. They don't like it and they do not want it. Yeah -criminals and police have guns, but the "man in the street"? No way! Although gun laws aren't what this post is about, your comment can be debated and possibly proven to be incorrect. In a simple Google search, I found the following: Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population). For example, Norway has the highest rate of gun ownership in Western Europe, yet possesses the lowest murder rate. In contrast, Holland's murder rate is nearly the worst, despite having the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe. Sweden and Denmark are two more examples of nations with high murder rates but few guns. Full article is found here: http://theacru.org/acru/harvard_study_gun_control_is_counterproductive/ The truly sad part is, too many irresponsible people have posession of guns.
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JClosed
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/02 14:20:28
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Sigh - And we eat more cheese, so we are bigger murderers right? Come one. Those numbers really mean nothing. You know the Netherlands have one of the biggest harbors (Rotterdam) of Europe? This makes the Netherlands one of the biggest targets of organized crime, because it is one of the biggest main transport ports to the rest of of Europe. Those murders are in most cases hard drug related, and have nothing to do with gun ownership (or lack of it). Anyway - I is still true most Dutch people do not want to have a gun. And to tell you the truth - my jaw just dropped on the floor when I saw that advertisement for guns for children. I really was thinking it was a joke at first, but then I realized it was reality. Me and my girlfriend where staring at it and shaking our heads in total disbelief. We really could not get our heads around it. I think it is just as difficult to tell you why we do not want guns, as it is for you to tell us why we should have them. I do not want to go in discussion, but if that boy did not had this gun as birthday present, the chances his sister was still alive at this very moment are very, very big in my opinion. And that is the last thing I will say about it...
post edited by JClosed - 2013/05/02 14:21:40
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AT
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/02 15:29:11
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Some may find it hard to believe, but guns is fun. The same way some people get their jollies power strumming in front of a stack of marshalls, or plugging in an old, cranky analog synth. Done under safe circumstances, shooting is a thrill for many, if not most people. You should try it some time. You don't even need half a brain to be safe shooting, just follow a few rules. Always assume a gun is loaded and don't point it anywhere you don't possibly want to hit - like your sister. Realize the bullet goes a long way so don't shoot it where it can hit something farther than you want to hit. Likewise, shotgun pellets (and even bullets) can skip over water like stones if at a shallow angle. I learned that by putting some holes in the same tin barn I talked about in the above post. Guess who had to relay more tin? Important lesson learned, as well as a few new words from my grandfather. As far as kids - rural culture (and those from it and now in the suburbs) isn't about guns but they are an important part of it. When I was a kid you progressed. BB/pellet gun, .22, shotgun, deer rifle. If you wanted to fire a cannon, you joined the army. Nobody made you shoot, or hunt, but it was as common as grass and everyone I knew took safety seriously. I can see if you didn't grow up around guns how they could be scary, esp. the way hollywood presents them. That is is mostly ignorance on hollywood's part - and anybody who expects the truth from film/TV is silly. Just like not going to a hospital when you are sick because that is where people and die. Unlike Europe, the US has a mythology about guns, freedom and individuality. The main reason we don't have Elisabeth as queen was not only because of Washington's army, which couldn't beat the English, but the fact the Brits couldn't hold the countryside. There were always more good ole boys available w/ rifles than the English could muster to resupply their garrisons. Then you have the wild west, and Samuel Colt's .44 great equalizer. A lot of American mythology is tied up w/ guns. @
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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sharke
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/02 20:28:28
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The frontier history of the USA it at the root of its widespread gun ownership and the gun owning rights that came with it. Like it or not, America has a very different history to Europe, and guns are an integral part of it. It's all very well to sit in a comfy chair somewhere like the Netherlands and express incredulity that guns could be a part of family life in another country, but the cultural history of the two places are entirely different. As for the kid shooting his sister, well that's just a horrible tragedy brought on by parental neglect. I'm pretty sure there are equally as disturbing cases of fatal child neglect in the Netherlands too. A simple box of matches in the wrong hands is enough to invite catastrophe (I should know, I burned our house down when I was three  ).
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trimph1
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/02 20:39:20
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Well, I'm not trying to enter into any hoohaw here but, just look around at some other countries. The US is not the only country that has issues with this sort of stuff.
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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sharke
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/02 20:46:33
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trimph1 Well, I'm not trying to enter into any hoohaw here but, just look around at some other countries. The US is not the only country that has issues with this sort of stuff. I believe Brazil has a murder rate 4 times higher than the US. I used to live with a couple of guys from São Paulo. Some of the things they told me about life over there were terrifying.
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Mystic38
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/02 20:56:17
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Lets be honest here, things like this will be repeated many hundreds of times a year in the USA... its simply how it is and nobody really gives a crap... if they did, things would change. The degree of civilised control, regulation and use of firearms is clearly listed here in the link...click on the "total firearm related death rate" to rank and see what countries are equivalent to the USA.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate Colombia, Mexico, Swaziland, South Africa..... yup..thats where The USA ranks.
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sharke
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/02 21:13:09
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Mystic38 Lets be honest here, things like this will be repeated many hundreds of times a year in the USA... its simply how it is and nobody really gives a crap... if they did, things would change. The degree of civilised control, regulation and use of firearms is clearly listed here in the link...click on the "total firearm related death rate" to rank and see what countries are equivalent to the USA.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate Colombia, Mexico, Swaziland, South Africa..... yup..thats where The USA ranks. "Let's be honest," this kind of thing (i.e. children getting a hold of guns and shooting someone accidentally" doesn't happen "many hundreds of times a year." It probably happens about once a week, if that. Drink driving/reckless driving worries me far more. Here in New York, you can fly around an intersection at great speed without bothering to check who's crossing, kill someone, and the most serious charge the NYPD will come up with is "failure to yield." As for the rate of firearm death in the US, the figures are greatly skewed by the number of gun deaths that happen in large inner cities (with the nation's strictest gun laws) among thugs in street gangs. That culture is a whole problem in itself. Guns aren't to blame for young men who would actually kill each other over a parking space.
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craigb
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/03 03:07:43
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Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/03 07:15:35
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Mesh JClosed I really cannot understand one single bit why people even want to have a murder machine like a gun. I am really glad living in the Netherlands, where giving a gun to someone is absolutely unthinkable, whatever the age a person has. Gun possession here strictly regulated, and you have to have to pass a formal exam (and have to possess a membership from a organization that has a safe room where you can shoot) to even touch a weapon. I guess 99.9% of the people here do not even want to touch a gun if they would get payed for it. They don't like it and they do not want it. Yeah -criminals and police have guns, but the "man in the street"? No way! Although gun laws aren't what this post is about, your comment can be debated and possibly proven to be incorrect. In a simple Google search, I found the following: Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population). For example, Norway has the highest rate of gun ownership in Western Europe, yet possesses the lowest murder rate. In contrast, Holland's murder rate is nearly the worst, despite having the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe. Sweden and Denmark are two more examples of nations with high murder rates but few guns. Full article is found here: http://theacru.org/acru/harvard_study_gun_control_is_counterproductive/ The truly sad part is, too many irresponsible people have posession of guns. That study concludes that violent societies are violent. It points out that historically violent societies have trended towards curtailing gun ownership as a matter of policy yet those societies have not actually seemed to curtail violence. It theorizes that violence in society is triggered by conditions that are not associated with gun ownership. It doesn't seem to speculate about how much more violent the societies that seem predisposed to be violent would be if the violent people had easier access to guns, but it does point out that violent people are resourceful and can be effectively violent without guns. Here in the USA we are learning about violence in society and we haven't decided if we want to be violent society with guns or a violent society without guns. We keep getting our asses handed to us by violent kooks who ave real easy access to guns. We don't think that our society is so violent that we are willing to take the guns away from the violent people. So we have violence committed with guns. Here is a real important question? Do you think the 5 year old kid knew he was being "violent" when he pointed his rifle at his sister? If you can't answer that question ask your self this, it's a simple question: Why did the 5 year child point his rifle at his sister... and pull the trigger? Why? In my opinion, it takes a violent society to inspire a kid to point a gun at someone. That is something that happens to kids in war zones. A trailer park in Kentucky USA is NOT a war zone. We need to stop teaching and entertaining everyone by observing and partaking in violence as a recreational pastime. If we don't... we end up with a 5 year old child spending the rest of his life trying to figure out if he meant to kill his sister. We all know he squeezed that trigger and killed his sister yet no one will ever really understand why. We do not have to understand violence to make good decisions about managing it. best regards, mike
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Mystic38
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/03 12:33:20
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sharke Mystic38 Lets be honest here, things like this will be repeated many hundreds of times a year in the USA... its simply how it is and nobody really gives a crap... if they did, things would change. The degree of civilised control, regulation and use of firearms is clearly listed here in the link...click on the "total firearm related death rate" to rank and see what countries are equivalent to the USA.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate Colombia, Mexico, Swaziland, South Africa..... yup..thats where The USA ranks. "Let's be honest," this kind of thing (i.e. children getting a hold of guns and shooting someone accidentally" doesn't happen "many hundreds of times a year." It probably happens about once a week, if that. Drink driving/reckless driving worries me far more. Here in New York, you can fly around an intersection at great speed without bothering to check who's crossing, kill someone, and the most serious charge the NYPD will come up with is "failure to yield." As for the rate of firearm death in the US, the figures are greatly skewed by the number of gun deaths that happen in large inner cities (with the nation's strictest gun laws) among thugs in street gangs. That culture is a whole problem in itself. Guns aren't to blame for young men who would actually kill each other over a parking space. 23,000 accidental shootings per year in the USA and over 600 accidental deaths is being honest. Thinking that these numbers dont exist, however, is not. It is simply a smoke and mirrors denial mentality that believes that the numbers are skewed any more than any other country's data. The facts are that. Facts.
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sharke
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/03 17:02:31
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Mystic38 sharke Mystic38 Lets be honest here, things like this will be repeated many hundreds of times a year in the USA... its simply how it is and nobody really gives a crap... if they did, things would change. The degree of civilised control, regulation and use of firearms is clearly listed here in the link...click on the "total firearm related death rate" to rank and see what countries are equivalent to the USA.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate Colombia, Mexico, Swaziland, South Africa..... yup..thats where The USA ranks. "Let's be honest," this kind of thing (i.e. children getting a hold of guns and shooting someone accidentally" doesn't happen "many hundreds of times a year." It probably happens about once a week, if that. Drink driving/reckless driving worries me far more. Here in New York, you can fly around an intersection at great speed without bothering to check who's crossing, kill someone, and the most serious charge the NYPD will come up with is "failure to yield." As for the rate of firearm death in the US, the figures are greatly skewed by the number of gun deaths that happen in large inner cities (with the nation's strictest gun laws) among thugs in street gangs. That culture is a whole problem in itself. Guns aren't to blame for young men who would actually kill each other over a parking space. 23,000 accidental shootings per year in the USA and over 600 accidental deaths is being honest. Thinking that these numbers dont exist, however, is not. It is simply a smoke and mirrors denial mentality that believes that the numbers are skewed any more than any other country's data. The facts are that. Facts. To be fair, I thought you were talking about cases of kids getting hold of guns and accidentally shooting someone. But on a wider note, yes guns are dangerous and people have accidents with them. The same could be said of cars, fire etc. In 2010 there were over 33,000 unintentional poisoning deaths, over 26,000 unintentional fall deaths, over 400 boating deaths etc etc.....not to mention the over 80,000 deaths attributed to alcohol each year.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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tom1
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/03 17:48:10
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That study concludes that violent societies are violent I'm going to have to write that one down. I wonder if the study also concludes that nonviolent societies are nonviolent
Sonar Producer X2/ProTools/Cubase/Reaper Studio Cat 32 Gig Ram East West: Hollywood Strings/Brass/Woodwinds/Goliath Kontakt Ultimate / FabFilter Bundle / EaReverb / Maag4 / Izotope Ozone 5 / Izotope RX2 / Elastique / Waves
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craigb
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/03 17:54:39
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tom1 That study concludes that violent societies are violent I'm going to have to write that one down. I wonder if the study also concludes that nonviolent societies are nonviolent No, they're violent too...
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Linear Phase
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/03 18:07:40
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joakes Wow, unreal. Luckily, this could not happen in Europe. Take that kind of political bating where it belongs. Gun violence happens in Europe. Gun accidents happen in Europe. Sure the rate of that type of stuff may be, "higher in the USA." Regardless, this could definitely happen in Europe. Seriously, do you consider the history of Europe to be awash in peace and love? I happen to know that same type of idiocy exists in Kvr's Hyde Park Corner, is that where you took European History 101? Here's a suggestion: go soul searching; try to figure out your need to take a tragic accident, and make it some sort of political power play; taking a dig at those of us in the USA; pretending like your snot don't stink.
post edited by Linear Phase - 2013/05/03 18:09:32
too many lasers... Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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sharke
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/03 18:08:13
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Tom and Jerry have a lot to answer for.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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backwoods
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Re:Latest in birthday presents - sad news
2013/05/03 18:11:09
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Even though I keep my snot up my nose I wasn't aware it had a fragrance- so my snot personally does not stink (to me, in my opinion)
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