Light Bearers

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theguitarplayer
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2013/10/19 12:58:36 (permalink)

Light Bearers

Final Song Update 11/08/13
 
Well, this time I wanted to create something that reflects how we all should have a walk, in this life, worthy of our calling, and how we should be a light in the world to others. There has been to much chaos going on in this world and I don't think some people get it. If we are to love one another, how can we condemn and ridicule others, before we look in the mirror at ourselves and our own faults. Just something for us all to think about before judging others without a cause. I wanted this to be epic and full of a lot of textures and voices, so I hope I accomplished that in this piece. It was a lot of work arranging all of this, but I hope you find it worthy of the message I am trying to convey. As always your comments and critique is always very much appreciated.
 
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12540962  "Light Bearers""
 
Peace and Blessings, John
post edited by theguitarplayer - 2013/11/08 00:30:40

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    Walt Collins
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/19 19:09:12 (permalink)
    Hey John.  I like the various parts, and the order in which you've arranged them.  However, there seem to be some rhythmic discontinuities when transitioning between them.  Are those intentional, maybe symbolic in some way?  Musically, I find it a little disturbing.
     
    Also, the guitar section that comes in (for the first time) from around 1:05 through 1:40 has some kind of warbling/distortion that I don't think is intentional.  Is there a problem with the sample you're using?  Maybe it has too much compression/limiting?  I'm hearing the same problem when that part comes in again around 3:00.

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    #2
    theguitarplayer
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/19 20:09:12 (permalink)
    Thanks Walt for listening and commenting on this, I will check it out in the wav files and see what I can do to work on those issues. I most likely don't have them lined up exactly and it could be throwing everything off at those locations. All of the samples were originally created in different beats, but I converted them all to the same FPB. I have a tendency of getting things off a bit because my eye vision isn't the best in the world, especially at 4:30 am. Yes, I was working overtime trying to get this one done, but that's how it goes that early in the morning. Thanks for catching those. Hope the rest sounds alright. Thanks again.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John
     
    Walt, I did go in and fixed the issues, at least I think I did. One thing was I had Ozone 5 set in analog mode instead of digital mode, make a big difference. Sorry about that. Adjusted all settings, so I hope this sounds better for you. I also removed and moved a few samples around and adjusted the fades in and out where you were describing. Hope this works for you and everyone else as well. Thanks for the heads up.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John
    post edited by theguitarplayer - 2013/10/19 22:18:46

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    chasmcg
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/20 09:19:19 (permalink)
    John, enjoyed the listen. Lots going on. Very good.

    chasmcg

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    theguitarplayer
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/20 13:17:49 (permalink)
    Chas, Thanks for listening and for your comments, they are much appreciated. Lots going on in your work as well.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John

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    Walt Collins
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/20 14:38:24 (permalink)
    theguitarplayer
    Thanks Walt for listening and commenting on this, I will check it out in the wav files and see what I can do to work on those issues. I most likely don't have them lined up exactly and it could be throwing everything off at those locations. All of the samples were originally created in different beats, but I converted them all to the same FPB. I have a tendency of getting things off a bit because my eye vision isn't the best in the world, especially at 4:30 am. Yes, I was working overtime trying to get this one done, but that's how it goes that early in the morning. Thanks for catching those. Hope the rest sounds alright. Thanks again.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John
     
    Walt, I did go in and fixed the issues, at least I think I did. One thing was I had Ozone 5 set in analog mode instead of digital mode, make a big difference. Sorry about that. Adjusted all settings, so I hope this sounds better for you. I also removed and moved a few samples around and adjusted the fades in and out where you were describing. Hope this works for you and everyone else as well. Thanks for the heads up.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John



    Hi John.  I just listened again and I'm still having trouble counting 1...2...3...4 through the transitions, especially the very first one at around 0:50 (which seems to be off by about 2 beats), but it could just be considered "artistic license" if you like. ;)
     
    Also, I'm still hearing that warbling/distortion on the parts I mentioned previously.  I've heard similar noise before when trying to "stretch" an audio clip to a different speed.  Since you mentioned that's what you had done, I'm fairly certain that's the source of the distortion I mentioned.  You could possibly try a different stretching algorithm.  Which plugin(s) did you use to stretch the clips?  Not all stretching algorithms are created equal. ;)

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    #6
    theguitarplayer
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/21 04:03:59 (permalink)
    Walt, I convert all tempos and FPB (Frames Per Beat) within the Sonicfire Pro 5 sampler converter. I can also adjust them in Sony Sound Forge Pro 9 but usually never touch it there, because it is already done before using the samples. At 0:50, that is on purpose and intentional, listen to that closer, it end on a note and the keyboards start. As for the guitar sound between 1:05 (keyboards end and strumming of acoustic guitars (2 of them in sync) start with a cymbal splash in background) and 1:40 guitars end and orchestration starts. The acoustic guitars sound exactly the way (I) wanted them to sound for this piece, just like the electric guitars with their distorted gritty sound. I'm not getting what you mean by warbling, for the acoustic guitars, I thought they sounded awesome the way I edited them.
     
    I know that this sounds not as good as the 292 mp3 version or the .wav files, but when loading to soundclick it never does sound as good as the original tracks. Could also be the width I used for this with the stereo imaging settings. The exciter imaging and compression and limiting are all good. Equalization, as far as, post-in and post-out are all good and so is the maximization settings. Not a lot of reverb on this and so I don't know what your hearing. Are you using headphone, computer speakers, or reference speakers. I use Truth Reference Speakers with 8" reference speakers in them and these speakers tell the truth. I think it just might be the soundclick player (the freebe one) could be the issue. I'll check it out again, but while typing this I listened to it and checked out those locations your talking about twice and I'm still unclear what your thinking. Anyway, thanks for the concern.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John

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    Walt Collins
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/21 10:11:06 (permalink)
    Hi John.  I listen on my Tannoy Reveal 501a monitors, which I run through a dbx DriveRack (so I'm always listening to a "flat" room EQ).  But that's not the source of the distortion.  It's the sampler conversion errors I'm hearing.  Any time you stretch audio it introduces errors.  I guess I'm just hearing artifacts from the Sonicfire Pro 5 sampler converter you mentioned.  It doesn't sound like a very high quality conversion to me, but I'm nitpicky about such things. ;)  If it's not bothering you then just ignore me. :)

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    theguitarplayer
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/21 14:11:35 (permalink)
    If it's not bothering you then just ignore me. :) Never!! Still checking it out, but have to go out of town for a couple of days. Thanks Walt!
     
    Peace and Blessings, John

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    groupgezgin
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/21 16:19:45 (permalink)
    Hi John
    very nice, I love it .I get a very nice sound, of the guitar
    I congratulate you and wish you continued success..
     

    best regards,
    Grup Gezgin
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    jamesyoyo
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/21 18:23:29 (permalink)
    If Keith Green and Train and Lindsey Buckingham got together to write a song, I am pretty sure this is how it would turn out. Epic.
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    Boomin36Beatz
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/22 17:39:07 (permalink)
    nice one.
    listening to your tracks is like time travelling (80 90's)
    Like it
    All the Best
    B36B
     
    #12
    Boomin36Beatz
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/22 17:41:16 (permalink)
    ohh and sorry for not replying to my own last post.
    i was busy with some new toys :-)
    so once again sorry.
     
    #13
    theguitarplayer
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/22 20:46:29 (permalink)
    Nihat, Thanks for listening and for commenting, it is always appreciated. Like the picture you posted here, Thank you so much.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John

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    theguitarplayer
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/22 20:49:43 (permalink)
    James, Thanks for listening and for your comments, they are always interesting and much appreciated.  Very epic indeed.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John

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    CLEAN
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/22 21:24:28 (permalink)
    The first word that came to mind when I started to listen to this was "Dynamic". This has a huge sound. Such a well-crafted tune. The playing is excellent and the mix is perfect.
     
    John, I think this is one of the best I've heard from you.
     
     

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    Mark
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    The Band19
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/22 22:21:50 (permalink)
    The transition @ 1:40 didn't really seem to fit John. I liked the different pieces though. I would really like to see you do more with an idea along the lines of verse verse chorus verse verse coda chorus chorus. 

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    AT
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/23 15:00:51 (permalink)
    My, you certainly cover a lot of territory in this one - and make it all work pretty seemlessly.  The guitar into into the transition does seem a bit rough.  Otherwise I didn't hear any problems.  Very cinematic (at times).  A couple of the parts I would have liked to hear more of (around 3:30 was very sweet).  Me like.
     
    @

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    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #18
    theguitarplayer
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/23 15:26:19 (permalink)
    Boomin36Beats, Thanks for listening and for you comments, they are much appreciated.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John

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    clintmartin
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/23 15:47:44 (permalink)
    Good work! I love the acoustic guitars. They sound great. You keep on churning them out!

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    theguitarplayer
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/24 14:23:55 (permalink)
    Mark, Thanks for the listen and the nice comments, they are much appreciated. It went #1 on Christian Rock Charts today, so this arrangement is working to some degree, but still needs a tweak hear and there. I'll just let it play out for the time being and get to the tweaks latter.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John

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    theguitarplayer
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/24 14:34:28 (permalink)
    Robbie, Thanks for listening and for commenting, they are both appreciated. I'll be working on this piece, after it plays out on Sound Click and then see what I can do with a couple of the transitions and a couple of other things I have in mind. But, thanks for the observation. As to doing something according to your suggestions, I will keep your thoughts in mind. As to how I do these mixes are by sheer inspiration, with no formula in mind, only to convey a message of a hire source other than myself. You know Him and He knows us all.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John

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    #22
    theguitarplayer
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/24 20:53:36 (permalink)
    AT, Thanks for listening and for your comments, they are much appreciated. At 3:30, that does sound pretty good and so when I rework this piece, I may add some more to that piece of the arrangement.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John

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    theguitarplayer
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/24 21:02:25 (permalink)
    Clint, Thanks for listening and for your comments, they are much appreciated. I be chrun'in!!
     
    Peace and Blessings, John

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    #24
    theguitarplayer
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/29 23:42:11 (permalink)
    Walt, I was wondering if this sounds any better to you or are you hearing the same issues? Tried to work on it a bit and think the issues maybe fixed. There were some volume issues in those spots, so I adjusted them. Let me know. By the way this went to #1 on Sound Click Christian Rock and 29 in Rock and made Sound Click top 50. Not to bad for having only a couple of mistakes. Thanks for your help.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John

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    #25
    jamesg1213
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/30 12:45:15 (permalink)
    I hear the 'warbling' Walt mentioned. it's quite evident on the acoustic guitar at 1:05. Overall the track sounds very compressed, had a quick look at the waveform and there are a lot of flattened off peaks. It's pretty loud, so I think you've plenty of room to back off on the compression/limiting John. Let 'er breathe

     
    Jyemz
     
     
     



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    Walt Collins
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/30 18:12:47 (permalink)
    theguitarplayer
    Walt, I was wondering if this sounds any better to you or are you hearing the same issues? Tried to work on it a bit and think the issues maybe fixed. There were some volume issues in those spots, so I adjusted them. Let me know. By the way this went to #1 on Sound Click Christian Rock and 29 in Rock and made Sound Click top 50. Not to bad for having only a couple of mistakes. Thanks for your help.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John



    Sorry John, I'm still definitely hearing the time stretch distortion.  I think the only way to fix those is to use a different converter, or just don't change the pitch/tempo as much from the original audio clips.
     
    But the bottom line is that most soundclick listeners aren't audiophiles and it doesn't seem to matter to them, since the song is doing so well!

    Walt Collins - Downtempo & Ambient
    Bandcamp: https://waltcollins.bandcamp.com (FREE downloads),  SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/arcanor
    blog: "Seeking Enlightenment Through Electronic Music" - http://waltcollins.com/music
    I use Ableton, NI, AAS, Arturia, Spectrasonics, Cakewalk, Akai, Yamaha, Fender, Sony, Waves
    Windows 10, Tannoy, KRK, dbx DriveRack
    #27
    theguitarplayer
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/30 21:51:06 (permalink)
    Thanks Walt.
    I will address this issue on my next song and start verifying my conversions. I am also going to pull out my original tracks from my projects files and see if there is any thing I did on the tracks that have caused this issue and see if I can fix it within the project.
    Sometimes I mess up with either to much or to little crossover and that too can cause this type of issue to be heard. I just wanted to make sure you were still hearing the same thing or not before going deeper to find out what was done to cause this. Thanks again for your willingness to be so audiophiles sensitive and finding little issues like this, it is helpful and much appreciated.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John

    Sonar X3 Studio, Acid Pro 7, Sound Forge Pro 9, Sonicfire Pro 5, Kinetic 2, Cinescore, HP Pavilion dv7, CORE i7, Q-740, 8gb Ram, Windows 7- 64 bit, 4 tb mem , Audiobox USB, Digitech GNX4, Gibson SG1 & SG3, Martin J65M, Washburn Custom Cumberland, 3 Marshall Amps, Casio 365 Keyboard, M-Audio Axiom AIR Mini 32,  Behringer Truth Monitors, Garritan Aria, EWQLCC, Alloy 2, Ozone 6, Melodyne 

    http://www.soundclick.com/JohnRKennedy
    #28
    theguitarplayer
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/31 01:39:07 (permalink)
    Walt, This should be better, spent 2 hours on it. Hope you enjoy this better, plus added a couple of things.
     
    Peace and Blessings, John

    Sonar X3 Studio, Acid Pro 7, Sound Forge Pro 9, Sonicfire Pro 5, Kinetic 2, Cinescore, HP Pavilion dv7, CORE i7, Q-740, 8gb Ram, Windows 7- 64 bit, 4 tb mem , Audiobox USB, Digitech GNX4, Gibson SG1 & SG3, Martin J65M, Washburn Custom Cumberland, 3 Marshall Amps, Casio 365 Keyboard, M-Audio Axiom AIR Mini 32,  Behringer Truth Monitors, Garritan Aria, EWQLCC, Alloy 2, Ozone 6, Melodyne 

    http://www.soundclick.com/JohnRKennedy
    #29
    Walt Collins
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    Re: Light Bearers 2013/10/31 09:01:36 (permalink)
    Sorry again John for not communicating effectively, and that you're spending so much time on this, probably chasing after something you're hearing, but it's not the same thing I'm talking about.
     
    I've created a sample of a very short (8 seconds) acoustic guitar performance, and then copied it twice, then time stretched the 2nd copy by 25%.  I used what I consider to be a pretty good tool (SoundForge 10 Pro - Process - Time - Time Stretch), but perhaps not the best.  Hopefully this will isolate exactly what I'm talking about.
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hwAENu-Hic
     
    The 2nd copy shows exactly the audio distortion (flutter) that I'm hearing on the sample you used in your song at 1:05, and again later in the song.

    Walt Collins - Downtempo & Ambient
    Bandcamp: https://waltcollins.bandcamp.com (FREE downloads),  SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/arcanor
    blog: "Seeking Enlightenment Through Electronic Music" - http://waltcollins.com/music
    I use Ableton, NI, AAS, Arturia, Spectrasonics, Cakewalk, Akai, Yamaha, Fender, Sony, Waves
    Windows 10, Tannoy, KRK, dbx DriveRack
    #30
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