cclarry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/16 15:42:08
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cclarry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/16 16:17:28
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Downloaded and installed!
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cclarry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/16 17:01:58
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Initial Impressions...
S-Gear seems to sound better.
I went through most of the presets
and wasn't "real" impressed. Did a comparison,
and to me, S-Gear sounds better. But,
I haven't had much time to work with it,
so the verdict is still out...but, at this point
I can say that I won't be paying $300 for it.
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cclarry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/16 17:06:41
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EDIT:
I MOST DEFINITELY will NOT be paying $400 for it!
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rsinger
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/16 18:48:40
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cclarry
Initial Impressions...
S-Gear seems to sound better.
I went through most of the presets
and wasn't "real" impressed. Did a comparison,
and to me, S-Gear sounds better. But,
I haven't had much time to work with it,
so the verdict is still out...but, at this point
I can say that I won't be paying $300 for it.
Thanks for the review. I was curious to see how it compared to S-Gear - now there is no need to hurry and try it out.
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TheSteven
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/16 19:36:48
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cclarry
Initial Impressions...
S-Gear seems to sound better.
I went through most of the presets
and wasn't "real" impressed. Did a comparison,
and to me, S-Gear sounds better.
Was really hoping that it would be awesome...
"Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils" Loius-Hector Berlioz  www.AgitatedState.com MenuMagic - plug-in management powertools! My Tunes
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Mesh
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/16 19:43:52
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☄ Helpfulby cclarry 2017/08/16 20:28:23
rsinger
cclarry
Initial Impressions...
S-Gear seems to sound better.
I went through most of the presets
and wasn't "real" impressed. Did a comparison,
and to me, S-Gear sounds better. But,
I haven't had much time to work with it,
so the verdict is still out...but, at this point
I can say that I won't be paying $300 for it.
Thanks for the review. I was curious to see how it compared to S-Gear - now there is no need to hurry and try it out.
There's still no harm in trying out the 15 day trial........and maybe, just maybe, your ears might be worth $300. 
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
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cclarry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/16 20:30:09
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TheSteven
cclarry
Initial Impressions...
S-Gear seems to sound better.
I went through most of the presets
and wasn't "real" impressed. Did a comparison,
and to me, S-Gear sounds better.
Was really hoping that it would be awesome...
So was I. It sounds, in many ways, like Amplitube, which isn't a bad thing. Just not the "Wow" factor I was expecting. The hardware unit sounds far better. And, at $399, definitely a pass for me...
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/16 21:03:04
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cclarry
hardware unit sounds far better. And, at $399, definitely a pass
for me...
How did you arrive at that conclusion? If you own the hardware it's $99, if you don't how can you tell so quickly? They advertise it as the same algorithms, so if you feed it the same signal, it should sound the same ... it's just 1s and 0s after all ...
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/16 21:03:08
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GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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cclarry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/16 23:00:41
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Rob[atSound-Rehab]
cclarry
hardware unit sounds far better. And, at $399, definitely a pass
for me...
How did you arrive at that conclusion?
If you own the hardware it's $99, if you don't how can you tell so quickly?
They advertise it as the same algorithms, so if you feed it the same signal, it should sound the same ... it's just 1s and 0s after all ...
I don't own the hardware, but I have demo'd the hardware... so now you know...
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LOSTinSWIRL
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/17 01:32:17
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That software sounds pretty cool but at 399.99 I would have to pass. I am having a great time learning the ends and out of TH3 myself. That is one awesome amp sim.
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bapu
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/17 14:57:47
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☄ Helpfulby clintmartin 2017/08/17 15:18:42
At $399 might as well add $600 and get the Helix LT?
At $999 might as well add $400 and get the full Helix?
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Mesh
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/17 15:28:45
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2017/08/17 15:36:10
bapu
At $399 might as well add $600 and get the Helix LT?
At $999 might as well add $400 and get the full Helix?
At this rate, the Variax Shuriken is starting to look mighty good. 
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/17 17:30:54
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☄ Helpfulby cclarry 2017/08/17 19:45:53
It takes a while to get acclimated to using Helix. The more time you spend with it, the more you can make the results "your sound". For me, a huge part of getting sounds I like is making my own cab IRs. Cabs that I like... mic'd the way I like. Regarding the Native Plugin vs. the hardware: - Gain-staging and the front-end are imperative to getting a good sound.
I had to turn the input down about 4dB to get response similar to Helix hardware. - If you've ever listened to DI bass recorded with a cheap DI box... vs going DI thru a Neve channel... the difference is literally night vs. day (and the cost also reflects that
 )
Here's an example of Helix Native... playing a modded Marshall type sound. www.studiocat.com/temp/Helix_Native_ModMarshall.mp3 57/08 Bride Humbucker > Neve Portico II > Fireface UFX. Ignore the crap guitar playing - trying to give an idea of how the sound responds to picking, dynamics, and volume. Cab IR is a Friedman 4x12 (v30 speaker mic'd with a Miktek CV4). You can download the Marshall patch and Cab IR here: www.studiocat.com/temp/JimsMarsh.zipIf the Cab is too bright for your taste, you can use a darker IR or the "high cut" in the IR block. Note that I increased the Sag parameter in the Amp block to 9 (you can dial this back if desired). There's an additional "tone shaping" IR included... which provides a slight boost in the mids (off by default). The patch also has drive, phaser, and delay blocks. The LA-2A type compressor is used before the Cab IR block... to simulate slight speaker compression. Got the idea from when I had the Axe-FX II XL+. Helix Native is sounding very similar to the hardware here... IMO, The biggest part of getting your sound... is getting the Cab right (to your ears). Get that to your liking... and the rest will fall into place.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/17 18:05:55
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bapu
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/17 18:08:54
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/17 18:39:15
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☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2017/08/17 19:10:12
I had one of the first Helix units sold in the US. Was using a Kemper at that time... and thought it sounded better than the Helix. A lot of that was the fact that I'd spent months working with the Kemper vs. a few hours with Helix. Sold the (first) Helix. Over the next couple of months, as strange as this might sound, I couldn't get the Helix UI out of my mind. It was actually FUN making/tweaking sounds. At this point, I had the Kemper and Axe-FX II XL+... so I decided to pick-up another Helix... so I could have the three of them side-by-side. First thing I did when I got the new Helix was to create an "acoustic" patch for my piezo equipped guitars. Loaded an IR of the body resonance from a Taylor acoustic guitar. The sound blew my mind. No more smacky/quacky/smacky piezo guitar sounds. Used a small amount of EQ... and the sound was even better. I'm not going to say it's a replacement for a well mic'd acoustic... But for live... it sounds a whole lot better than it should. To my ears, Helix was better sounding at this application (sounded less processed) than the Axe-FX. My next hurdle; to create a nice dynamic crunch sound... in the ballpark of a 5150-III into a 2x12 with v30s. About this point, I decided to create my own Cab IRs. I had already done some Profiling with the Kemper... so creating Cab IRs seemed logical. Cabs I like... mic'd the way I like. That was the final kicker. Helix was now starting to sound like me (instead of vice-versa). All the while, the UI was genuinely fun to use. Helix was a keeper. It was a hard decision to sell the Kemper. It was the first device to convince me that great guitar sound/response could be had without tubes. The Axe-FX is a great sounding unit... but I just didn't like the form-factor... or the onboard UI. Axe-Edit (software editor) is a breeze... but maybe not the most convenient while holding a guitar. Anyway... just my experience... Everyone is different. If you can, try them all. They're all capable of fantastic sounds.
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cclarry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/17 19:47:54
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Now THAT sounds like it should!!!
I like that the tone your using is relative clean, when lightly picked,
but the crunch kicks in well when you're into it!!! Very nice Jim!!!
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/17 20:12:35
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☄ Helpfulby cclarry 2017/08/17 21:35:01
One big thing with both Helix and Axe-FX (at least to my ears):
You have to run a high-pass filter prior to hitting the Amp block.
Otherwise, the bottom end sounds flabby/muddy (out of control).
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cclarry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/17 21:35:22
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/18 14:19:59
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wst3
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/19 13:11:23
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☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2017/08/19 13:15:33
I'm with Jim on this... I have several amplifiers (although I am envious of Jim's collection<G>!), and a ton of pedals, way too many really. Lugging all that gear around has become less appealing over the years, and yet that's how I get the sounds I like.
I picked up a used PodXTPro or whatever the rack version was called, used it for a couple pit bands, it was ok, and it made life easier for the production staff, so, well, ok.
A friend who has trustworthy ears, and who is a mighty fine player, had been raving about the Helix. He traded a stack of very nice amplifiers and cabinets for the Helix. Hmm... might be something to this (or he had become even lazier than me?)
I've had my Helix for about six months now. I'm in no way a guru, and if I am recording something I still fall back to my amps, pedals, and microphones. But if I were going to play out I think I'd give the Helix a try.
The biggest improvement, for me at least, was the ability to have two amplifiers, two signal chains really. I do that in real life, and was very disappointed that I could not do that with the Pod. The models themselves seem to have been tweaked - to their advantage - as well.
I haven't gotten so deep that I'm using my own IRs, but my impression is that it will be a big help, I've tried a couple that I found on the net, and I will certainly try Jim's (and while that might make me sound a little like Jim - which would be a benefit), but clearly I'm going to need to use my own.
The thing with any of these modelling devices/software is that we need to remember that we didn't plug into our complete rig the first time and think it was perfect. No reason to think software will remove the time and effort required.
So, to the OP, for $100 I am sorely tempted to try the native version. Even if it only lets me experiment with patches more quickly it is probably worth it. Downloaded the installer this morning and will take it for a spin over the weekend.
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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wst3
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/19 13:27:49
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Just out of curiosity Jim - are you doing anything tricky when you record your impulse responses?
I use Voxengo Impulse Modeler and Deconvolver to play around with IRs. Too much? Too little?
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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Genghis
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/19 15:19:24
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Nice tones there Jim. Sounds like you know how to get the most out of this type of thing! I was thinking of installing the demo just for the heck of it, but remembered I have a business trip after next week, so I will wait til that is over.
I had an Axe-FX Ultra, then a II. Haven't tried Helix, but I've heard great things about it. I'm now using a Mesa TC50 with a cab, and a Fractal FX8 with an Eventide H9 for effects. I generally like the sound just a touch more than what any of the modelers provide, but the main thing for me is that it got me out of the rabbit hole of trying every amp model and every IR, always looking for the holy grail of tone. I have a fairly technical mentality, so I spent too much time experimenting to see what's around the corner. Not completely paralyzed with options, but just a bit too curious about what else I could find. I can generally get any tone I want to use out of my current setup, and I don't get lost in the options.
I do have a few plugins that allow for scratch tracks late at night if I need to, but I rarely have to do that. I figure the late night sessions I can record other things, and then crank up the amp through a 4x12 during the day. Of course, part of this is that, after being a Southern Cal apartment dweller for about 30 years, I now live in a house in Oregon that is just isolated enough that I can get a reasonable volume level to record a real amp.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/19 17:34:53
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Got both Helix and Native version for a few days now and I'm mighty impressed with either of them.
I'm not the typical guitar player as I seriously lack skills in that area but I'm positive that this a major step forward for my needs in terms of music production as I need it also for bass, possibly route synths thru it and reamp guitar parts played by others.
I needed something that is very flexible and intuitive and Helix does come with a great UI. I browsed the manual once weeks before buying, don't think I will need it again.
Having Helix Native now allows me take the some tool/workflow/sound with me when away and all I need to carry is a small lightweight audio interface. In the studio I can reamp unlimited tracks without having to hook up the hardware unit.
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/20 16:47:57
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wst3
Just out of curiosity Jim - are you doing anything tricky when you record your impulse responses?
I use Voxengo Impulse Modeler and Deconvolver to play around with IRs. Too much? Too little?
Hi Bill, Nothing too tricky. Neve preamp on the front-end. Do a lot of test captures before starting the process. Once you've got everything dialed in and the test captures are sounding good, then capture the various mics/positions. You'll need something to deconvolve. The Voxengo tool works well.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/20 17:27:19
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Genghis
Nice tones there Jim. Sounds like you know how to get the most out of this type of thing! I was thinking of installing the demo just for the heck of it, but remembered I have a business trip after next week, so I will wait til that is over.
I had an Axe-FX Ultra, then a II. Haven't tried Helix, but I've heard great things about it. I'm now using a Mesa TC50 with a cab, and a Fractal FX8 with an Eventide H9 for effects. I generally like the sound just a touch more than what any of the modelers provide, but the main thing for me is that it got me out of the rabbit hole of trying every amp model and every IR, always looking for the holy grail of tone. I have a fairly technical mentality, so I spent too much time experimenting to see what's around the corner. Not completely paralyzed with options, but just a bit too curious about what else I could find. I can generally get any tone I want to use out of my current setup, and I don't get lost in the options.
I do have a few plugins that allow for scratch tracks late at night if I need to, but I rarely have to do that. I figure the late night sessions I can record other things, and then crank up the amp through a 4x12 during the day. Of course, part of this is that, after being a Southern Cal apartment dweller for about 30 years, I now live in a house in Oregon that is just isolated enough that I can get a reasonable volume level to record a real amp.
The Mesa TC50 is a great amp... Combined with the FX8 and H9, that's a formidable/versatile setup. At this point, I spend most of my time playing either that "Acoustic" patch... or the modded Marshall. Over time, I may make slight tweaks... or change the Cab IR... but those are my basic sounds. It took a while to get a full grasp on the Helix. ie: Figuring out the fact that I like to high-pass the signal before going into the Amp block. Very simple step... but makes a significant difference in the quality of the final sound. Having the Axe-FX got me thinking about speaker compression... Seeing what Glenn DeLaune was doing with his patches (using a LA-2A style compressor lightly - to affect feel)... The more time I spend with Helix... the better the results. Like any other piece of gear...
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Zargg
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/20 18:21:51
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Great sound(s) you got there, Jim  Somewhere in there I thought I heard my old Marshall 2550, with my 1960a cabinet A bit too pricey for me, though.. 
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Line 6 Helix Native is coming....
2017/08/20 20:31:26
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Full price on Helix Native is a bit high.
I suspect with discount it would be more palatable.
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