trimph1
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 06:51:00
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@ JohnT: I think that is almost like the whole question of metering in a way. Some like bar graphs and others seem to like the 'analogue' look of a meter. I think it ties in with the issue of the GUI. Myself, with my low sight vision I preferred something like a bar graph because it did not make me have to peer bleary eyed at my screen to figure out what the percentage is/was. But I can see the point of having the number there as well. Mind, I go carping about the GUI needing to be fully customisable, to each users workflow...almost like a certain other DAW that I shall not name here... 
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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gothic.angel
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 09:17:05
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My personal list of lost "customization" and "workflow system" capabilities: 1) Control Bar old dear flexibility, as the one in X1 is, despite its larger size, is in many cases, unusable: Its "Modules" must be customizable and all visible/usable at once, on screens of ANY size/resolution... 2) Features now moved to those old-fashioned multi-level menus should be taken BACK to their places, set to specific tools/buttons to be placeable, at will, on above mentioned Control Bar "modules"... 3) There are features removed from the Track Headers, now available only within the Inspector. They should be also placed, possibly as an option, at their original place... 4) GUI's colors must be fully customizable, and dark skins are highly requested (also proved by Panup's Mods success...).... 5) The "Track Properties" dialogue, once present in the "Tracks" menu list, is no longer available... It was possible to INSTANTLY set tracks's inputs and outputs, both Audio and MIDI, at choice or all at once, at will, instead of Alt+clicking every and each single track as in X1 (imagine a project full of many audio and midi tracks, needing different ins and outs...) it was very comprhensive and powerful.......... 6) The SONAR logo...
Sure, not that urgent, but it's a sign of SONAR's loss of its real "identiity"... and.. finally... thanks to patient "Vintagevibe" for this second "try".... ;-)
post edited by gothic.angel - 2011/09/01 09:35:09
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NW Smith
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 09:26:38
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I too miss "Track Properties" and the many capabilities that used to be available by right clicking on tracks.
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Beagle
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gothic.angel
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 09:41:07
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...in the meanwhile... at least by now Cakewalk should well know that the Control Bar is a serious issue.....
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Bub 
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 11:46:02
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Beagle
CakeAlexS
> I think you mean YOU can read it quickly. Not everyone else can.
> and not assume others think/feel/see/hear/believe the way they do (without proof).
> it suggests one is demanding or expectingn the same of another.
Um... sorry I just assumed most people are able to read graphs quickly  , guess I stand corrected! People prefer binary! Also I believe you have counteracted my assumption with an assumption of your very own (in bold in case you have missed this) Did you actually mean to write "You cannot read graphs quickly"? Unless you are everybody and I am sole loner here :).... pot .... kettle etc.
Regardless I shall phrase it better -
Create sixteen tracks in Sonar, now replace the volume meters with numbers that change all the time.... now best of luck trying to understand the overall volume. Why should measuring processing be any different. You can hover over the bars and get your percentages BTW.
And did you see this link? http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653
Why is this not the answer to all your prayers? You have lots of numbers, graphs, percentages, whatever you like. Better still Cakewalk doesn't have to waste time catering to your requirements, which I am sure are very important, at least to you.... and perhaps to other people, but I wouldn't want to assume for fear of passing another judgement 
but this is not the same thing as the CPU meters in sonar. the CPU meters in sonar are cakewalk's own interpretation of how SONAR is being utilized by the CPU, not what WINDOWS thinks the CPU utilization is. it has to do with sonar as a program and how the audio engine is using each core.
Beagle ... you are right, but I don't understand why CakeAlex even brought this up? This is a 'list' thread about things that are missing in X1 that were in prior versions. This is the second time Vintagevibe has started a thread and it's been hijacked. Nobody did this in the "Things that are new to X1 thread." ... which by the way didn't last very long.
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dmbaer
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 13:36:53
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vintagevibe
yorolpal
I think you mean "Skylight" there vintagevibe...Silverlight is a windows thingy.
I get those mixed up. Isn't Skylight based on Silverlight?
Nope. Silverlight is a technology for implementing so-called rich internet applications. And of course, Sonar has nothing to do with browsers, so there's no connection whatever between the two.
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gothic.angel
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 13:37:58
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Bub
... This is the second time Vintagevibe has started a thread and it's been hijacked. Nobody did this in the "Things that are new to X1 thread." ... which by the way didn't last very long.
+1... ;-) ...respect to vintagevibe... then... let's keep it on the right tracks and with the right mood...
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jm24
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 13:41:39
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ba_midi
This graphical representation is perfectly fine when working live. You can read it quickly
I think you mean YOU can read it quickly. Not everyone else can.
I really wish people would speak solely for themselves and not assume others think/feel/see/hear/believe the way they do (without proof).
One can do something. I can do something.
But when someone says "You can [fill in the blank]" it suggests one is demanding or expectingn the same of another.
Nuh uh ... :P
I know this is a bit to the side. BUt::: It is very annoying and sad that the currently accepted speaking/writing style is to use the "Second Person Universal" when referring to oneself and to humanity in general. As in, "I was standing on the top of the volcano, YOU could see the ocean." Bad grammar at best. Way stupid: "When you are orbiting the Earth", and "When you are a Senator" AS IF !!!!! ============================ Way too many manuals and messages and people write/speak like this::: Remember, when you are working with your music program on your computer in your studio, you must use your index finger on your right hand to click your left mouse button to hi-lite your clip in your song displayed on your monitor. And then use your ring finger (or your middle finger) on your right hand to click your right button on your mouse to display your context menu so you can choose from your choices to change your clip in the way you want to,... And then when you are happy that you did what you wanted to process your clip in your song, click FILE on your menu in your program to save your project to your folder on your hard-drive. -------------- Corrollary:: Equally annoying is the insanity of putting "MY" before everything: MY computer, MY destop, MY sessions, MY documents, MY scans, MY notebooks, MY project,... Currently, this is not MY computer, and it is not MY project. I provide computer support for a bunch of small organizations and individuals. It feels very stupid to say to them, "Double Click the 'My Computer' icon on your desktop." Times like these I envy the French and their language police. ========================= Sorry for the diversion. But BA is correct. This type of language interferes with communication, and has often lead to war. J
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moffdnb
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 14:44:54
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+/- keys on midi track to transpose notation is missed.
Right clicking clips for properties is missed.
Colours obviously.
Control bar too big but nice it can be hidden
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Splat
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 15:39:12
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but this is not the same thing as the CPU meters in sonar. the CPU meters in sonar are cakewalk's own interpretation of how SONAR is being utilized by the CPU, not what WINDOWS thinks the CPU utilization is. it has to do with sonar as a program and how the audio engine is using each core. I am 100% certain Sonar calls Windows libraries for all CPU related info. You want to see thinks relative to Sonar? Check out the Process Explorer utility I gave you, double click on the SONARPDR.EXE process. Here you will find all sorts of info related to Sonar including performance. I suspect this is a million times more useful than Sonar will ever supply, and I suspect they use it themselves in development of the product (if not they should investigate). On the whole I suggest it is more useful to understand how the whole environment is behaving (and you can do that as well of course with Process Explorer). NB You can also do all sorts of thingss with Performance Monitor bundled in Windows. Sonar is not a CPU monitoring application. It does however clearly indicate when you are maxing out, and if you need detailed info (stats... whatever) you should be using the right tool for the right job. Thanks Alex
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Splat
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 15:42:52
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Apols not my intention to hihack threads (not sure I'm doing this but I respect peoples views)- merely responding to a previous suggestion on the first page of this thread.
/END.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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brundlefly
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 16:17:54
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CakewAlexSI am 100% certain Sonar calls Windows libraries for all CPU related info. That's a pretty high level of certainty for someone who presumably had no involvment in programming the application.  The various Bakers who have commented on this have made it pretty clear that what SONAR shows for CPU load is a measure of the time taken to process a buffer of audio vs. the time available. If SONAR has 2ms to complete all processes related to preparing that buffer for delivery to the interface, and a core takes 1ms to do its share of the processing, that core is going to show 50% in SONAR. And if any one core nears or hits 100%, SONAR is going to be forced to drop a buffer of audio... POP! SONAR doesn't care how much headroom is being reported by Windows for that core, it only cares how long it took to get the requested processing done. For a real-time process like audio streaming, this is arguably a more realistic measure of how close to the limit a system is running.
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Beagle
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 16:18:20
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CakeAlexS
but this is not the same thing as the CPU meters in sonar. the CPU meters in sonar are cakewalk's own interpretation of how SONAR is being utilized by the CPU, not what WINDOWS thinks the CPU utilization is. it has to do with sonar as a program and how the audio engine is using each core.
I am 100% certain Sonar calls Windows libraries for all CPU related info. You want to see thinks relative to Sonar? Check out the Process Explorer utility I gave you, double click on the SONARPDR.EXE process. Here you will find all sorts of info related to Sonar including performance. I suspect this is a million times more useful than Sonar will ever supply, and I suspect they use it themselves in development of the product (if not they should investigate). On the whole I suggest it is more useful to understand how the whole environment is behaving (and you can do that as well of course with Process Explorer).
NB You can also do all sorts of thingss with Performance Monitor bundled in Windows.
Sonar is not a CPU monitoring application. It does however clearly indicate when you are maxing out, and if you need detailed info (stats... whatever) you should be using the right tool for the right job.
Thanks
Alex
I do not wish to hijack the thread, either. my apologies. however I have to respond to erroneous information. Alex, please read these technical notes from Noel Borthwick. this information is actually in Noel's tech notes regarding Sonar 8.3, but I doubt they've changed the CPU meter algorithm to away from this type of monitoring verses windows CPU monitoring which you seem to think that sonar does. http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1648597&mpage=1&key= if it doesn't show the paragraph directly from that link, scroll down to the heading labelled: " Improved/more accurate CPU Metering"
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brundlefly
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 16:25:12
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"Improved/more accurate CPU Metering" Phew! I sure am glad that agrees with what I just posted. Here's the key takeaway: CPU% = (BufTimeMs / BufDurationMs) * 100.
BufTimeMs = Time taken to process a single buffer of audio in milliseconds
BufDurationMs = Duration of a single buffer of audio in milliseconds
I wasn't a 100% certain I had it right.
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Beagle
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roughly
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 19:16:15
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i cant get past the colours issues and the lack of a disable edit filters
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Notecrusher
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/01 20:48:07
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moffdnb
+/- keys on midi track to transpose notation is missed.
Seriously that's gone? I use that every day to move through Battery cells and try different loaded drum sounds. I guess the keyboard equivalent is still there?
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gothic.angel
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/02 05:07:49
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Notecrusher
moffdnb
+/- keys on midi track to transpose notation is missed.
Seriously that's gone? I use that every day to move through Battery cells and try different loaded drum sounds. I guess the keyboard equivalent is still there?
Yes... unfortunately, +/- keys feature is now unconveniently only available within the relative track "Inspector" MIDI tab.... ...far from the track header you're working at............. it should certainly be available at least as an option back to the track header.....
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moffdnb
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/02 05:55:36
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Yes... unfortunately, +/- keys feature is now unconveniently only available within the relative track "Inspector" MIDI tab....
...far from the track header you're working at............. But can you still use +/- keyboard here? I can't. I have to type incremental numbers to achieve this. ;<
post edited by moffdnb - 2011/09/02 05:56:53
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SvenArne
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/02 11:08:19
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Seems to me that most of the complaints go something like this:
- "I can no longer get X to happen by pressing/clicking Y".
Strickly, those aren't removed capabilities and should be listed in a different thread IMO. "Which changes made in SONAR X1 have killed your workflow?", for example.
Sven
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Splat
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/02 13:11:16
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In regards to Cakewalk process monitoring....
Happy to be corrected. Although I still maintain ultimately Windows libraries are called and process explorer and performance monitor really is the best way to detect where performance issues may lay. I think the point:
> I think it ties in with the issue of the GUI. Myself, with my low sight vision I preferred something like a bar graph because it did not make me have to peer bleary eyed at my screen to figure out what the percentage is/was.
Now this is a good point I hadn't thought of, the graph display is small, maybe if you doubleclick the bar charts a larger window could be displayed which could be cliped to multidock.
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John T
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/02 15:07:37
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Alex, you're wrong on this. The Sonar CPU monitor is different from the Windows on for very good reasons There are conditions under which Task Manager CPU usage can be fairly high, but Sonar is doing fine, and vice versa.
The Sonar CPU monitor tells you when the CPU load is going to cause problems for Sonar. This is not linearly related to overall CPU usage.
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Splat
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/03 09:21:21
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John I''ve already admitted I am wrong, or I have at least been interpretted incorrectly (either way it does not matter to me): "Happy to be corrected although I still maintain ultimately Windows libraries are called." What I said is entirely compatible with what you just said. Back to topic please...
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2011/09/03 11:13:57
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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bitflipper
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/03 18:53:50
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John T
bitflipper
MIDI icon missing from track header to distinguish a MIDI track from and audio track with the same name.
?
These are definitely still there. In fact, you can see them on pretty much any screen shot of X1 on Google Image search.
We're not talking about the same thing. In the image below, there is nothing to distinguish which of the two tracks is a MIDI track and which one is an audio track, because the header has been shortened to maximize the track view. In the bottom image, the MIDI track is easily identified by the keyboard icon. It is this picture that has been removed in X1. A small thing, perhaps, but an annoyance nonetheless. 
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/04 01:10:12
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Bitflipper, how have you got the track headers to look like that? I want to get rid of the small MIDI/Audio icon and no matter how narrow I make the tracks I can't get it to disappear at all. Even the track name goes before them. I can get rid of the larger icon by using "show icons" but can't seem to get rid of the small one. I can even get the track header so narrow all that's left is the track number and MIDI/Audio icon. Is there a setting somewhere or is there really, as I've long suspected, two versions of X1 in circulation?
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John
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/04 02:00:37
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FBB goto views in the main menu and icons deselect show in header.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/04 02:32:43
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Thanks John, another niggle out the way.
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gmp
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/05 00:58:01
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This is the first version Cakewalk has come out with, back to 1992, that has no display of which midi recording mode you're in: Overwrite, Sound on sound, autopunch. You have to stop playback and look at the preferences. You have to close preferences to resume playback.
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gothic.angel
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Re:List of capabilities that have been removed in X1 (second try)
2011/09/05 08:37:13
(permalink)
gmp
This is the first version Cakewalk has come out with, back to 1992, that has no display of which midi recording mode you're in: Overwrite, Sound on sound, autopunch. You have to stop playback and look at the preferences. You have to close preferences to resume playback.
+1... nice remark..... ...that is due to the lack of a PROPER, USEFUL Control Bar..... which STILL remains THE issue....... ;-)
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