pianodano
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RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2008/12/11 10:48:20
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ORIGINAL: Twigman
I get this problem often.
AND I NEVER UNPLUG ANYTHING!
My Motu MTPAV USB and my BehringerBCR2000 USB get dropped by Sonar regularly and ports assigned in projects get redistributed (presumably to the next port on the list).
Correcting everything every time is a total PITA.
Why would Sonar drop these ports? They are powered ON before Sonar starts, they are plugged into the USB sockets they've always been plugged into.
My HDSP9632 PCI never gets dropped.
Motu MTP ? Say it isn't so. If not, that's bad new for me. I just ordered A Motu MTP for the new machine I am having built because it was very highly recommended as a means to decrease jitter/ increase sync verses my Maudio 8*8.
Best, Danny Core I7, win XP pro, 3 gig ram, 3 drives- Lynx Aurora firewire- Roll around 27 inch monitor, 42 inch console monitor- Motif xs controller - Networked P4's and FX Teleport for samples- Muse Receptor VIA Uniwire for samples and plugs- UAD QUAD Neve - UAD 1- Sonar X1 but favor 8.5 GUI - Toft ATB 32 - Vintage hardware - Tascam MS-16 synched via Timeline Microlynx -Toft ATB32 console
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John
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RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2008/12/11 11:05:18
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I have not had this problem in Sonar but doesn't 8 have this fixed? Below is from the Help file New features. MIDI out port assignments are retained when adding/removing MIDI devices
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In SONAR 8, MIDI tracks and control surfaces retain their current MIDI output port assignments if you add or remove MIDI devices. Changing output ports in the MIDI Devices dialog Changing MIDI output ports in the MIDI Devices dialog has the following effect: Enabling a new output port. All MIDI tracks and control surfaces retain their current output port assignments. Disabling an unassigned output port. All MIDI tracks and control surfaces retain their current output port assignments. Disabling an assigned output port. The result is different for MIDI tracks and control surfaces: MIDI tracks. The Missing MIDI Ports dialog appears and lets you remap the missing output ports to available output ports. Note: If you do not remap a missing device, the track's Output control will display MISSING: <name of missing device>. If the missing device becomes available in the future, the track will automatically be assigned to the correct device. Control surfaces. The control surface output port is assigned to None. Figure 9. The Missing MIDI Ports dialog lets you remap missing output devices Figure 10. A track's Output control shows the name of the missing device Opening projects after MIDI configuration has changed If any assigned MIDI output devices are missing when you load a project, which is likely to happen if you transfer projects between different computers, SONAR will do the following: MIDI tracks. The Missing MIDI Ports dialog appears and lets you remap the missing devices to available devices. Note: If you do not remap a missing devices, the track's Output control will display MISSING: <name of missing device>. If the missing device becomes available in the future, the track will automatically be assigned to the correct device. Control surfaces. Control surface output ports are assigned to None.
post edited by John - 2008/12/11 11:07:53
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chaunceyc
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RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2008/12/11 12:11:46
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ORIGINAL: FastBikerBoy
Unless it's the driver for the E-MU 2x2 which totally screws up Sonar's ability to 'remember' the port and won't enable it when you start Sonar, regardless of whether it was enabled on last shut down or not. The fix for the problem is to remove the E-MU driver and install the Windows generic instead.
I do have one of these (dongle for Emulator X2) in my system, and can't seem to get it to switch over to the Generic USB driver. In driver management, If I turn off "show compatible devices" I get a group of about 5 manufacturers, but don't see the generic one amongst the choices. Is there a better procedure to strip the driver and force the generic one to load?
I guess I should mention that I also have the following midi devices:
Roland RD-700GX (USB) Enabled in Sonar as my main controller
NI Kore 1 HW controller (midi and audio not enabled in Sonar)
Tascam Fireone Firewire (Fireone Control Enabled, audio and Midi not enabled in Sonar)
Korg NanoPad (Enabled in Sonar)
Evolution X-Session (not enabled in Sonar)
Emu 2x2 (not enabled in Sonar)
Plus syncrosoft dongle and pace iLok dongle, Rode Podcaster, and a couple of external drives.
Don't get me started on USB ports and positions and hubs. Most device manufacturers advise against connecting to hubs, but you can only fit so many onboard and external USB ports in a machine, so going hubless is not really an option.
PC AudioLabs Rokbox 7 (Core i7 3.40GHz, Gigabyte Z-68, 20 GB Ram, Windows 10 64-bit), MOTU 2408 Mk II / PCI-424, UAD-2. Sonar Professional, Soulphonic Soundsystem (soulphonicsound.com) Convincing Woodgrain | Portland USA nujazz/brokenbeat/neo-soul/downtempo/deep house www.soundcloud.com/chaunceyc
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chaunceyc
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RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2008/12/11 12:18:05
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ORIGINAL: John
I have not had this problem in Sonar but doesn't 8 have this fixed?
Below is from the Help file New features.
MIDI out port assignments are retained when adding/removing MIDI devices
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This fix only addresses OUT ports...the randomly dropped/reassigned/re-routed IN ports are my main nightmare. It may work perfectly for folks with multiple out port, but I can't confirm since I only have one out port active (I mostly use internal VSTi soft synths).
PC AudioLabs Rokbox 7 (Core i7 3.40GHz, Gigabyte Z-68, 20 GB Ram, Windows 10 64-bit), MOTU 2408 Mk II / PCI-424, UAD-2. Sonar Professional, Soulphonic Soundsystem (soulphonicsound.com) Convincing Woodgrain | Portland USA nujazz/brokenbeat/neo-soul/downtempo/deep house www.soundcloud.com/chaunceyc
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yorolpal
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RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2008/12/11 12:27:19
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Yep, it needs to both output AND INPUT assignments. How come this is, apparently, so hard to implement. I also agree that, if possible, it should be a user "lockable" and "configurable" deal. I mean come on, many of us have more USB and midi devices than Carter has Little Liver Pills. Sheesh.
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pianodano
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RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2008/12/11 13:09:38
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ORIGINAL: yorolpal
Yep, it needs to both output AND INPUT assignments. How come this is, apparently, so hard to implement. I also agree that, if possible, it should be a user "lockable" and "configurable" deal. I mean come on, many of us have more USB and midi devices than Carter has Little Liver Pills. Sheesh.
You mean like this many ? In the past (sonar 3,4 and 5) when a port was not available and Sonar midi ports were reordered including control surface port corruption and all insdef files becoming delinked, I had been able to recover by opening a backup of a file with the correct port setup and it would overwrite the new assignments Sonar invented. That doesn't work in 6. For heavens sake why would they make it worse ? Sonar 6 now overwrites the ports assignments in the backup when it is opened. For those that do not understand the complexities, here's my case and the order I have to keep them in. Inputs in Yamaha Tyros -1 in Motif XS-1 in Motif XS-2 in Motif XS-3 in Motif XS-4 in 1 usb midisport 8*8 in 2 usb midisport 8*8 in 3 usb midisport 8*8 in 4 usb midisport 8*8 in 5 usb midisport 8*8 in 6 usb midisport 8*8 in 7 usb midisport 8*8 in 8 usb midisport 8*8 in USB midi 1*1 tranzport IF/FW/DM midi in USB audio device USB audio device (2) USB audio device (3) Outputs out Yamaha Tyros 1 out Yamaha Tyros 2 out USB 1*1 out 1 usb midisport 8*8 out 2 usb midisport 8*8 out 3 usb midisport 8*8 out 4 usb midisport 8*8 out 5 usb midisport 8*8 out 6 usb midisport 8*8 out 7 usb midisport 8*8 out 8 usb midisport 8*8 tranzport IF/FW/DM midi out USB audio device USB audio device (2) Yamaha motif XS-1 Yamaha motif XS-2 Yamaha motif XS-3 Yamaha motif XS-4 Out - smpte USB midisport 8*8 microsoft midi mapper And that's before inserting even 1 softsynth. These ports will be reordered using no particular sequence I can decipher. Many of these ports, which have 16 channels each are linked to insdef files, drum files, etc of various instruments which themselves become corrupted in that they become delinked and must be reattached. There are 3 control surfaces connected which as I mentioned previously, have their port assignments corrupted. Even the methodology used in reordering by MOVING selected ports to TOP is ridiculous So the result of Sonar's reordering is ALL midi tracks lose the voice/patch/ports assignments. If you have 30, 40 or more midi midi tracks going, you're in a hopeless situation UNTIL you can get the ports back in the correct order. And unless you have taken copious notes on each and every single track, you're (I'm) lost. A couple of years back I wondered and asked why it was not possible to print out (using a printer of course) all track assignments, both audio and midi for safety's sake in cases like this. No response to that request. I'm bewildered by the fact that the programmers have overlooked spooling such a native thing on a computer.
post edited by pianodano - 2008/12/11 13:15:01
Best, Danny Core I7, win XP pro, 3 gig ram, 3 drives- Lynx Aurora firewire- Roll around 27 inch monitor, 42 inch console monitor- Motif xs controller - Networked P4's and FX Teleport for samples- Muse Receptor VIA Uniwire for samples and plugs- UAD QUAD Neve - UAD 1- Sonar X1 but favor 8.5 GUI - Toft ATB 32 - Vintage hardware - Tascam MS-16 synched via Timeline Microlynx -Toft ATB32 console
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John
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RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2008/12/11 16:04:30
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My take on this is its not a good idea to use the USB MIDI ports on various gear. Its best to use a single multi port MIDI interface if at all possible. Now I have had a very similar setup to the one above except I never used the USB from any gear. I still do things that way and have had very few problems. The only times I have run into problems is when I update Sonar to a new version and a new OS. Day to day operations never drop MIDI ins and outs. I have have it so that only two MIDI interfaces are used with Sonar or any other audio app. I use the ports on my sound card and the ports on my MIDI interface. I could use the USB but early on I ran into these problems you guys talk about. Since I don't do things that way I haven't had a problem. One reason I think its problem is many of these USB MIDI ports are second rate and really thrown in to make the gear look better to the buyer. Also there is no true specs on the USB end of it as far as what they need to provide where when they have a MIDI interface specs have to be met. Not to a computer but to other MIDI gear. That is what its for and that is where it shines. To get the same level of performance from these devices you need a good dedicated stand alone MIDI USB interface. Thats the way I see.
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chaunceyc
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RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2008/12/11 16:54:05
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I had a dedicated 4-port Midiman Midisport interface for years and never had this problem--they were simply labeled A, B, C, D and I had complete control over what was attached to them. The tradeoff was that the thing would make Sonar hang more often than I could stand. Whenever Sonar crashed and I couldn't even kill the Sonar process, more often than not I would unplug the Midisport and the gridlock would break free. That is actually what drove me to get specialized USB midi control interfaces like I mentioned above. Unfortunately, lots of these controllers add either audio (or Audio hardware adds midi ports) that clutter up your midi port maps and/or your audio driver list. They also expect to be bus-powered, even if you are using the midi interface instead of USB--so you still get the USB port complexity, with none of the auto-configuration benefits of a detected Midi device with drivers.
It gets complicated when you only want to use certain controllers in certain apps -- you don't want to be unplugging/hot plugging devices and rebooting all the time to rejigger your ports.
PC AudioLabs Rokbox 7 (Core i7 3.40GHz, Gigabyte Z-68, 20 GB Ram, Windows 10 64-bit), MOTU 2408 Mk II / PCI-424, UAD-2. Sonar Professional, Soulphonic Soundsystem (soulphonicsound.com) Convincing Woodgrain | Portland USA nujazz/brokenbeat/neo-soul/downtempo/deep house www.soundcloud.com/chaunceyc
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John
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RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2008/12/11 16:58:48
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I had a dedicated 4-port Midiman Midisport interface for years and never had this problem--they were simply labeled A, B, C, D and I had complete control over what was attached to them. The tradeoff was that the thing would make Sonar hang more often than I could stand. Whenever Sonar crashed and I couldn't even kill the Sonar process, more often than not I would unplug the Midisport and the gridlock would break free. That is actually what drove me to get specialized USB midi control interfaces like I mentioned above. Unfortunately, lots of these controllers add either audio (or Audio hardware adds midi ports) that clutter up your midi port maps and/or your audio driver list. They also expect to be bus-powered, even if you are using the midi interface instead of USB--so you still get the USB port complexity, with none of the auto-configuration benefits of a detected Midi device with drivers.
It gets complicated when you only want to use certain controllers in certain apps -- you don't want to be unplugging/hot plugging devices and rebooting all the time to rejigger your ports.
Absolutely true. I will say that M-Audio MIDI interfaces are not the ideal solution. I have found much the same on an old MIDIsport box.
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FastBikerBoy
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RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2008/12/11 17:27:42
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ORIGINAL: chaunceyc
ORIGINAL: FastBikerBoy
Unless it's the driver for the E-MU 2x2 which totally screws up Sonar's ability to 'remember' the port and won't enable it when you start Sonar, regardless of whether it was enabled on last shut down or not. The fix for the problem is to remove the E-MU driver and install the Windows generic instead.
I do have one of these (dongle for Emulator X2) in my system, and can't seem to get it to switch over to the Generic USB driver. In driver management, If I turn off "show compatible devices" I get a group of about 5 manufacturers, but don't see the generic one amongst the choices. Is there a better procedure to strip the driver and force the generic one to load?
I guess I should mention that I also have the following midi devices:
Roland RD-700GX (USB) Enabled in Sonar as my main controller
NI Kore 1 HW controller (midi and audio not enabled in Sonar)
Tascam Fireone Firewire (Fireone Control Enabled, audio and Midi not enabled in Sonar)
Korg NanoPad (Enabled in Sonar)
Evolution X-Session (not enabled in Sonar)
Emu 2x2 (not enabled in Sonar)
Plus syncrosoft dongle and pace iLok dongle, Rode Podcaster, and a couple of external drives.
Don't get me started on USB ports and positions and hubs. Most device manufacturers advise against connecting to hubs, but you can only fit so many onboard and external USB ports in a machine, so going hubless is not really an option.
I posted a sort of fix here but as stated in that I don't know whether it will continues to act as a dongle or not. It will definitely let Sonar remember that the port is enabled as opposed to having to manually enable it every time you start Sonar. I read somewhere on here that E-MU is now aware of the problem and will be posting an updated driver in January that will fix the issue. For now though this will definitely enable the MIDI ports, as to the dongle feature........... suck it and see.
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bbach
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RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2008/12/11 18:01:02
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I believe the fix for this is one of the new features of Sonar 8. It would be nice if a patch could be provided to legacy owners, but I suppose that might be a disincentive to upgrade.
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chaunceyc
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RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2008/12/11 18:11:24
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ORIGINAL: bbach
I believe the fix for this is one of the new features of Sonar 8. It would be nice if a patch could be provided to legacy owners, but I suppose that might be a disincentive to upgrade.
Unfortunately, I'm still experiencing this with Producer 8.0.2. The recent fixes were geared to Outputs, not inputs.
PC AudioLabs Rokbox 7 (Core i7 3.40GHz, Gigabyte Z-68, 20 GB Ram, Windows 10 64-bit), MOTU 2408 Mk II / PCI-424, UAD-2. Sonar Professional, Soulphonic Soundsystem (soulphonicsound.com) Convincing Woodgrain | Portland USA nujazz/brokenbeat/neo-soul/downtempo/deep house www.soundcloud.com/chaunceyc
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mandrake
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RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2012/09/29 10:06:57
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yorolpal
I believe he's talking about midi "routing I/O" assignments. It actually happens quite often that Sonar will lose those. I used to think it was just upon a new install or update but it's happened to me at other times as well. I have a master template that has all my most used softsynths along with a click track and multiple midi and audio tracks. I also have three outboard hardware sound generators (my controller, an Alesis QS8 and a Roland TD10 and a Korg Wavestation SR) that are set on different and various midi channels. What happens I think is that any time you make a change or add a new midi device in your Global settings you run the risk of having all your midi routing changed as well. While there may be a "quick fix" (and if there is, somone please clue me in to it) I generally just go back and change all my individual tracks back one at a time and then resave the template or project. It is a PITA ain't it?
now that x2 is out, does anyone know if this issue has been fixed? I quoted yorolpal because he describes the issue well.
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rvosse
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Re: RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2018/06/08 18:49:00
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Never, never, never had this kind of problems with my hardware synth. Yes it is a show stopper for me. I 'm a programmer and I know the problem can be fixed. I fixed it in my own software. Now Cakewalk has to do it.
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msmcleod
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Re: RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2018/06/08 20:27:22
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My hardware synths are mainly off nowadays, but what I used to do was keep a backup of my TTSSEQ.INI
SPLAT used to overwrite this if MIDI devices were missing, so copying my backup over the original before starting SPLAT up made sure any missing devices were restored and enabled.
Not sure if this still works for CbB, but maybe worth a try.
Mark McLeod Cakewalk by BL | ASUS P8B75-V, Intel I5 3570 16GB RAM Win 10 64 + Win 7 64/32 SSD HD's, Scarlett 18i20 / 6i6 | ASUS ROG GL552VW 16GB RAM Win 10 64 SSD HD's, Scarlett 2i2 | Behringer Truth B2030A / Edirol MA-5A | Mackie MCU + C4 + XT | 2 x BCF2000, Korg NanoKontrol Studio
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jimoliver
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Re: RE: Locking MIDI port assignments
2018/06/09 21:55:57
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I have had this issue for several years. Sonar 8.53 was the last time MIDI I/O was totally solid.
I have tried copying the TTSSEQ.INI when everything was OK and then replacing the current TTSSEQ.INI when MIDI gets rearranged/renumerated - this has not worked for me. Previously SPLAT would only change most of the 14ish MIDI inputs. Now CbB changes many of the outputs as well as inputs too. I always have all hardware synths and the 2 MOTU MIDI Express XTs on before starting the computer. All MIDI keyboards are on 2 MOTU MIDI Express XTs. Sometimes Windows 7 Pro does not see both XTs when I boot up. I restart the computer as many times as necessary until both XTs are seen. This is troubling because if I have an event about to happen and both XTs are not seen it is a major issue. Any resolution from Bandlab would be greatly appreciated.
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