Helpful ReplyLocking in Sonar in current Win10 version? [SOLVED]

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Beeej21
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2018/01/05 07:49:48 (permalink)

Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? [SOLVED]

Please pardon me if this question has been answered elsewhere on this fantastic forum (which I hope stays around for a while, because I consider you all a part of my music family!). I did a search and didn't find anything conclusive on here.

My question is fairly simple, the answer may not be. As many of us have discussed, I'm in need of locking in the current Win 10 OS so that no more updates take place for a couple months while I complete projects. The fear being that an OS update may upset the working status of SPLAT.

QUESTION: Does anyone know how to disable the internet connectivity within Win 10 without disconnecting the Ethernet cable physically? I need constant access to the network in my studio for many reasons (based on how my studio is setup on many levels, incl a shared sever and WiFi control of Sonar via V Control), but I do not need internet access. In fact, at this point, I'd really prefer no internet so that I can hold Windows updates hostage. I need a couple months of worry-free session time in SPLAT while I wrap up projects. Does anyone know how to do this if it is possible?? Thanks in advance for any insight, advice, and/or suggestions you might have for me.

PS: Whatever DAW I eventually call home after 20+ years with Cakewalk, I hope that user community is as awesome as this community has been. You guys rock!!
post edited by Beeej21 - 2018/01/07 05:15:41

DAW: Sonar Platinum, Windows 10 Ultimate 64bit**Computer: Intel i7 980x HexaCore Extreme 3.33gHz, Kingston HyperX 24GB RAM, ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 MB, 2x 300GB V-Raptor HDD, 4TB RAID-0 VST/Sounds HDD**Hardware: VS 700 System, Kurzweil SP2XS, Akai MPK49** SoundCloud
#1
GreenwoodStudios
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/05 08:29:24 (permalink)
Somewhere/how you are connected to the internet. A phone line DSL, your cable company, fiber or a dish ~ right?

In your studio where you have this network established via wire and/or wifi router you need to disconnect from that service. It may require getting secondary wifi router in there (if the rest of your house/family is enjoying connectivity) and then NOT connecting it to phone line, cable, fiber or dish. Your studio is in essense your ‘deserted but well equiped island.

As secondary approach is upgrade to Windows Professional where Microsoft has allowed pay for your right for you to defer updates indefinitely which was done away with in the Home version because most people are using there PC to get Email, cruise Facebook or watch Netflix, etc.

This was point out in another thread by I think @CakeAlexSHere

https://www.howtogeek.com/223083/what-does-“defer-upgrades”-in-windows-10-mean/
#2
Beeej21
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/05 09:38:01 (permalink)
Thank you @GreenwoodStudios! That linked article was very insightful. I'm wondering if those security updates that are allowed to still update might be potential issues for Sonar Plat? I'm nervous... Also at the fact that to defer only means to hold off, and that eventually, at Microsoft's discretion, the OS updates will install anyway. I'm thinking I might actually already have the Pro version... I'll have to check in the morning.

I really like your explanation of having my studio on a "deserted but well equiped island"!! Makes perfect sense, and has me thinking along those lines. But here's my current issue. I've got 6 workstations networked in my studio/office including the server. The others for sure need internet access daily. It's ONLY the DAW machine that I need offline... Yet they're all connected on the same router/switch with dedicated IP addresses. So, I need the island to still be connected... I just need one hut on the island to be deserted/disconnected. Ugh.

This has me wondering though... If I'm able to tweak the Ethernet card settings so that I set the default gateway (or whatever that term is) to all zeros, leaving the IP address intact? You are right, my internet provider (V FiOS) has a router set up with internet... I'm running a CAT6 cable to the studio that connects to a switch, which in turn has all the workstations, print servers, and even the office phone line (Voip), hardwired behind that switch. I'm going to toy with it in the morning and see if that renders access to the internet null on the DAW machine, while still allowing connectivity to the network.....

Thanks a million for your input!! I'll follow-up with any updates on what I find....

DAW: Sonar Platinum, Windows 10 Ultimate 64bit**Computer: Intel i7 980x HexaCore Extreme 3.33gHz, Kingston HyperX 24GB RAM, ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 MB, 2x 300GB V-Raptor HDD, 4TB RAID-0 VST/Sounds HDD**Hardware: VS 700 System, Kurzweil SP2XS, Akai MPK49** SoundCloud
#3
genimo001
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/05 23:00:23 (permalink)

PC: Sonar Platinum - Windows 10 - 16 GB - Samsung EVO 960 - i7700k - Maximus IX Hero - A ton of HDDs
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#4
Cactus Music
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/05 23:46:13 (permalink)
I have a similar situation as I use 2 computers one upstairs one downstairs and I use One drive to share my CWP files. Otherwise I rarely need the internet other than updates ( that's history) and looking for a lyric. 
So what I did was installed a new C drive SSD and used W 8.1. Problem solved. 
Sonar seems more stable on W8.1 so far. W10 was a bad idea for music computers.. the opposite of a Mac. 

Johnny V  
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#5
msmcleod
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/06 00:02:46 (permalink)
If it's just windows updates you want to block, the easiest way is to disable the Windows Update service:
  • Win + R:  type services.msc then click OK
  • Go down to Windows Update, right click and select properties
  • Click Stop if the service is already running
  • Change Startup Type to disabled
  • Click Apply
  • Click OK
if/when you're ready to enable updates,
  • Win + R:  type services.msc then click OK
  • Go down to Windows Update, right click and select properties
  • Change Startup Type to manual
  • Click Apply
  • Click OK
#6
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/06 01:34:47 (permalink)
That's what I use to do, and it works fine, been doing it since build 1511, but unfortunately it is not a permanent thing as I have recently found out. I had 5 Pc's and laptops with Windows 10 updates disabled that way, eventually they updated anyway even though 'Windows Update' service was disabled. All of a sudden without any notice the updates started to download and install, upon checking I noticed that disabled had been set to manual and the rest is history. After checking that the othe machines were still set to 'disable', which they were, another started downloading and updating. So I just bit the bullet and updated them all, everything is fine. So while disabling the Windows Update service works . . . for a time, in the end Windows 10 WILL update. I now just have my 2 main DAW PC's disconected from the net as it is the only way to be sure, a PITA as far as convenience goes, but what else can you do, there is no way known I would downgrade to Windows 7 or 8, Windows 10 has just been superior in every way (update situation aside), speed, stability, all far ahead of Windows 7 and 8 in my experience, wouldn't go back if you paid me.

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#7
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/06 01:57:04 (permalink)
msmcleod
If it's just windows updates you want to block, the easiest way is to disable the Windows Update service:
  • Win + R:  type services.msc then click OK
  • Go down to Windows Update, right click and select properties
  • Click Stop if the service is already running
  • Change Startup Type to disabled
  • Click Apply
  • Click OK
if/when you're ready to enable updates,
  • Win + R:  type services.msc then click OK
  • Go down to Windows Update, right click and select properties
  • Change Startup Type to manual
  • Click Apply
  • Click OK



I don't think that works under Windows 10, only for earlier OS's... it resets if you reboot or after a period of time.

Anyway here's another article if you have Win 10 Pro:
https://www.petri.com/und...indows-update-business

There is the business ring, a delay field and you can even pause updates for a number of days in group policy.
#8
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/06 02:00:20 (permalink)
No, it works under Windows 10, Pro or Home versions (I have both), it doesn't get reset after a reboot, although as I mentioned above, even with it disabled Windows 10 eventually will have its way, and update you will. It takes a while though, months, but eventually you loose.

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#9
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/06 02:34:17 (permalink)
Weird. Mine always reset the service, but then it was quite a while since I have done it, I found the group policy solution anyway.
#10
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/06 02:41:59 (permalink)
Group Policy method, Isn't that time limited also? I have read (right or wrong) that even doing it via Group Policy, eventually, Windows 10 will update itself regardless, so I didn't bother pursuing that avenue after my experience with disabling the Win Update Service, assuming all bases would be covered by Microsoft one way or another.

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#11
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/06 02:56:57 (permalink)
Matron Landslide
Group Policy method, Isn't that time limited also? I have read (right or wrong) that even doing it via Group Policy, eventually, Windows 10 will update itself regardless, so I didn't bother pursuing that avenue after my experience with disabling the Win Update Service, assuming all bases would be covered by Microsoft one way or another.


With Pro there are a number of options, most useful is number of days delayed and business cycle. You can also pause by a number of days. These settings won't get reset.

If you want to delay indefinitely then you need Enterprise.

Best look at the link.
#12
Cactus Music
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/06 03:48:43 (permalink)
I did some digging into this and the nerd squad all say the same thing,, eventually, all versions of w10 will update because of security issues. This can be delayed with the Business gizmo in pro but only about 6 months, So it's a loosing battle. I have Sonar Splat and Home Studio on
3x W 7
1X W 8.1
3x W 10
 
We'll see how it pans out. My main DAW is 8.1 and so far it's smooth sailing. I'm pretty fed up with re authorizing AD2 and iLok and e licencer just because W10 screws this up.  

Johnny V  
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#13
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/06 04:08:39 (permalink)
That's what I figured, it's all pretty much just buying time, as I discovered Windows will eventually win. The updates don't really concern me as such anymore, they did have me a little concerned way back when I started disabling, but they have never caused me an issue apart from having to reauthorize a couple of plugins when I did let them through. Now that I have found it's a lossing battle, I am prepared to let it be. The recent Intel bug thing and reported possible performance hit from the 'fix' concerned me a little, so I just disabled network connection for my 2 main DAW's to be sure, after a while if the reports are good I'll  reconnect them and let them do the update dance again. For convenience sake I would like them connected to the network, I rarely if ever fire up SONAR Platinum so don't really care if it gets hosed by some future update.

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#14
Tom Riggs
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/06 10:45:32 (permalink)
I just go into the setting for the network adapter and set the dns to manual and enter 2 invalid dns. I'm using 1.2.3.4 and 5.6.7.8
I can still access my local lan but can't resolve a name to get to the internet.

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#15
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/06 13:38:22 (permalink)
Cactus Music
I did some digging into this and the nerd squad all say the same thing,, eventually, all versions of w10 will update because of security issues. This can be delayed with the Business gizmo in pro but only about 6 months, So it's a loosing battle. I have Sonar Splat and Home Studio on
3x W 7
1X W 8.1
3x W 10
 
We'll see how it pans out. My main DAW is 8.1 and so far it's smooth sailing. I'm pretty fed up with re authorizing AD2 and iLok and e licencer just because W10 screws this up.  


Not the enterprise version. That's total control.
With AD2 the issue is with the way they do the authorization not Windows otherwise all the other software would have problems.

Ultimately if you don't want to install patches on Win10 then best take offline and never install software again. Not even patches or updates for applications.

For me delaying Windows update and being on the business ring works just fine, I've never had a problem whilst watching others handle the bugs. I worked out reauthorizing AD2 takes 6-10 minutes of my life per year and I've avoided iLok.

I probably spent 0.5 to 1 days per year making fine adjustments to Windows performance as well.
post edited by CakeAlexSHere - 2018/01/06 14:00:00
#16
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? 2018/01/06 14:01:45 (permalink)
Tom Riggs
I just go into the setting for the network adapter and set the dns to manual and enter 2 invalid dns. I'm using 1.2.3.4 and 5.6.7.8
I can still access my local lan but can't resolve a name to get to the internet.


That may bring performance problems ultimately.
If you don't want access to the internet remove the gateway.
#17
Beeej21
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? [SOLVED] 2018/01/07 02:04:51 (permalink)
Thanks everyone so much for your input on this.  I ended up going into the settings for my Network adapter and changing the default gateway settings to a single digit number (1) and that's it.  I left the assigned IP address and the DNS server settings alone.

This immediately took my machine offline from the internet, however, as I suspected might be the case, I am still very much connected to the network!!! Yesssss!!  I have access to the studio server, and I also still have V Control access!!  Whoohoo!!

Now fingers crossed that SPLAT will continue to work seamless while offline until I can wrap up these projects.

Thanks again everyone!

DAW: Sonar Platinum, Windows 10 Ultimate 64bit**Computer: Intel i7 980x HexaCore Extreme 3.33gHz, Kingston HyperX 24GB RAM, ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 MB, 2x 300GB V-Raptor HDD, 4TB RAID-0 VST/Sounds HDD**Hardware: VS 700 System, Kurzweil SP2XS, Akai MPK49** SoundCloud
#18
Piotr
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? [SOLVED] 2018/01/07 18:07:15 (permalink)
You could also additionally to ensure not accidental discover IP again by your computer to block access on router if possible (your ethernet card has unique MAC address).
 
For instance exclude that computer from beeing served by DHCP service on router and if possible (depends on router - creates direct rule to block it).

Regards,
Piotr
Sonar Platinum Lifetime
#19
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? [SOLVED] 2018/01/07 18:44:08 (permalink)
Piotr
You could also additionally to ensure not accidental discover IP again by your computer to block access on router if possible (your ethernet card has unique MAC address).
 
For instance exclude that computer from beeing served by DHCP service on router and if possible (depends on router - creates direct rule to block it).


This method will kill the local LAN as well.
If you want to completely disable the internet you just need to disable the network adapter in device manager, that's it. Sure add a rule if you are paranoid it may get reenabled.
If you want LAN but not internet then remove the gateway.
#20
Cactus Music
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? [SOLVED] 2018/01/07 19:14:41 (permalink)
I bought a wireless USB stick. I have no LAN cable plugged in. If I want internet to share my files I plug the wireless USB in. Use the internet and unplug it when done.  Only Windows defender seems mad.. so I update that when bugged. And now with W 8.1  I can manually update when I'm in the mood and have time. 
 
Alex. I see that Pro sells for $259 but know where is there pricing for Enterprise, I can assume its more like $359 which is a lot to pay just to shut of windows update. And it does not actually say anywhere that it does this. Do you have Enterprise? 
What I read on forums is that ALL versions will eventually force an update otherwise they cannot stay on line or something weird like that. Just curious, for some with serious studio set ups it would seem the answer to have a proper OS. I've always had the top tier versions of XP and W7. 

Johnny V  
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#21
Piotr
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? [SOLVED] 2018/01/07 19:56:30 (permalink)
CakeAlexSHere
Piotr
You could also additionally to ensure not accidental discover IP again by your computer to block access on router if possible (your ethernet card has unique MAC address).
 
For instance exclude that computer from beeing served by DHCP service on router and if possible (depends on router - creates direct rule to block it).


This method will kill the local LAN as well.
If you want to completely disable the internet you just need to disable the network adapter in device manager, that's it. Sure add a rule if you are paranoid it may get reenabled.
If you want LAN but not internet then remove the gateway.


Nope. The method is selective and addressed on router so point where internet is connected.
 
Ok, I have read again, so need to correct and precise what I wrote.
 
If PC has assigned IP by DHCP for using LAN not manually it needs of course still use it to get IP (and often automatically gateway). Sorry if I misunderstood. 
 
Accidental (I mean Windows can be trying to get access and you could get in unpredictable moment dialog box with a question and put accidentally 'enter' if dialog get focus) changing manual do DHCP could cause reading automatically gateway hence providing Internet access.
 
Anyway creating rule on router to block access to Internet for PC would be additional protection.
 
Sorry for my English :(

Regards,
Piotr
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#22
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? [SOLVED] 2018/01/07 20:17:45 (permalink)
Cactus Music
Alex. I see that Pro sells for $259 but know where is there pricing for Enterprise, I can assume its more like $359 which is a lot to pay just to shut of windows update. And it does not actually say anywhere that it does this. Do you have Enterprise? 

 
Enterprise give you full control over Windows update, that's what it's designed to do.
I do have an Enterprise license kicking around somewhere but I'm not using it.
You need to be connected to a largish organisation to buy it, there's probably other methods. I won mine at an M$ conference.
I'm happy with Pro delaying stuff myself, works great.
#23
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? [SOLVED] 2018/01/08 15:14:02 (permalink)
Interesting article on Windows release cycles in case it helps  anybody:
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-info.aspx
 
This blog may be useful as well:
https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/windowsitpro/2017/07/27/waas-simplified-and-aligned/
 
#24
Serious_Noize!
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? [SOLVED] 2018/01/08 15:44:01 (permalink)
This may not be what you are looking for, but there is a freeware program you can get that allows you to right click your mouse over it's icon in the task bar after you've installed it to turn the internet connection on or off, you can turn it off for a predefined amount of minutes or for good until you want to turn it back on again using the program. You can also schedule when you want your PC connection to the internet on or off.
 
http://crystalrich.com/internetoff/
 
 

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CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? [SOLVED] 2018/01/08 16:08:16 (permalink)
Serious_Noize!
This may not be what you are looking for, but there is a freeware program you can get that allows you to right click your mouse over it's icon in the task bar after you've installed it to turn the internet connection on or off, you can turn it off for a predefined amount of minutes or for good until you want to turn it back on again using the program. You can also schedule when you want your PC connection to the internet on or off.
 
http://crystalrich.com/internetoff/


IMHO I would avoid anything that is continuously running which this appears to do, it could be data collection or keylogging or whatever... regardless totally unnecessary.
 
You can turn off your network adapter in device manager, you can also do it in your network settings. The link below covers other possibilities, not sure about the "fake proxy server" method to be honest though...
 
https://www.wikihow.com/Disable-Internet-Access
 
Scheduling could happen a the router end if that is important to you.
#26
Serious_Noize!
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? [SOLVED] 2018/01/08 16:41:06 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby CakeAlexSHere 2018/01/08 16:43:58
CakeAlexSHere
Serious_Noize!
This may not be what you are looking for, but there is a freeware program you can get that allows you to right click your mouse over it's icon in the task bar after you've installed it to turn the internet connection on or off, you can turn it off for a predefined amount of minutes or for good until you want to turn it back on again using the program. You can also schedule when you want your PC connection to the internet on or off.
 
http://crystalrich.com/internetoff/


IMHO I would avoid anything that is continuously running which this appears to do, it could be data collection or keylogging or whatever... regardless totally unnecessary.
 
You can turn off your network adapter in device manager, you can also do it in your network settings. The link below covers other possibilities, not sure about the "fake proxy server" method to be honest though...
 
https://www.wikihow.com/Disable-Internet-Access
 
Scheduling could happen a the router end if that is important to you.




True, I can only speak for myself and say that I've never had any problems using it in the past, but you never know now days, everyone thought CCleaner was safe until it was reported they were hacked. 
 
The wikihow.com link you mention mentions using an Internet Toggling app and shows a picture of Internet Off by Crystal Rich. 
 
One easy alternative would be to go into Control Panel and network and sharing center, select Change Adapter settings and right click over your connection to create a desktop shortcut to disable the internet connection, once disabled next time you click the shortcut it will enable the connection. 
 
 

Dell XPS 8700, 16GB's Ram, Sonar Platinum.
#27
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? [SOLVED] 2018/01/08 16:43:54 (permalink)
Serious_Noize!
 
True, I can only speak for myself and say that I've never had any problems using it in the past, but you never know now days, everyone thought CCleaner was safe until it was reported they were hacked. 

 
Thanks for the tip, I need to check that one out.
 
Serious_Noize!
The wikihow.com link you mention mentions using an Internet Toggling app and shows a picture of Internet Off by Crystal Rich. 

 
hahaha!
 
Cheers
#28
Serious_Noize!
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? [SOLVED] 2018/01/08 16:49:07 (permalink)
CakeAlexSHere
Serious_Noize!
 
True, I can only speak for myself and say that I've never had any problems using it in the past, but you never know now days, everyone thought CCleaner was safe until it was reported they were hacked. 

 
Thanks for the tip, I need to check that one out.
 
Serious_Noize!
The wikihow.com link you mention mentions using an Internet Toggling app and shows a picture of Internet Off by Crystal Rich. 

 
hahaha!
 
Cheers




You find more information about it here : 
 
https://www.howtogeek.com...what-you-need-to-know/

Dell XPS 8700, 16GB's Ram, Sonar Platinum.
#29
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Locking in Sonar in current Win10 version? [SOLVED] 2018/01/08 16:55:15 (permalink)
^^
Thx. Appears version I was using was too old for that problem anyway, I only use it as a last resort, and I've now updated to the latest CCCleaner (without the issue one hopes) and I'm now doing a Malwarebytes and Bitdefender scan which shouldn't come to much (I noticed CC Cleaner has monitoring devices on startup which are fully disabled as well).
#30
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