cbrillow
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 75
- Joined: 2004/12/06 15:31:03
- Status: offline
Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
Apologies in advance for what will probably be a long query filled with minute detail. I'll try to eliminate some of the chaff, but feel it's important to include sufficient detail to fully explain my situation. Briefly, I go back as far as Guitar Tracks 2 and upgraded to GT-3 and, finally, GT Pro 4. At about that time, I stopped recording for a couple of years or more, and didn't really put much time in on 4. When I finally wanted to begin recording again, I found out that they had removed simultaneous multi-track recording from 4, which resulted in extreme disappointment, because I'd formerly been able to record 8 individual tracks at the same time. Now, I was restricted to a stereo track consisting of two channels. Bummer! I contacted Cakewalk, and they generously offered me a good price on Sonar X1 Essential, which would restore the multi-track recording capability. I made the purchase and installed it on my recording computer, which was running Windows XP SP-3. It ran fine, and I was able to read project files from the 3 previous versions of Guitar Tracks. Despite this, I didn't do any new recordings at the time, I just fiddled with it a bit to learn the new interface. Over time, I was notified of and update to X1, which I downloaded, but never installed. Similarly, when I was notified of X2, I purchased and downloaded it, but didn't have the time to play with it, either, so I just saved it on a disk for later installation. (never happened!) When X3 came along, I also bought it and saved it to disk. (In fact, I mistakenly bought it twice, about 6 months apart, but put it on the back burner and never installed it. Until yesterday.) One of the reasons for the delay is that I want/need to update my recording computer. I have a choice of machines to suit the purpose, but I have upgraded other software and have to be careful to use a common-denominator operating system that is supported by all the hardware and software. The biggest limitation is my sound card: an M-Audio Delta 1010LT multi-channel device. Gives my 8 simultaneous channels, and works great. However, Windows 7 is the last version for which drivers were written. From what I've seen, Sonar is supported on Windows 7 & 8.1, but there seem to be mixed results on 10. So, it appeared that everything should be ok if I installed X3 on a 64-bit Windows 7 Professional system, which is what I did last night. Installation went fine -- I chose to install both the 32 & 64 bit versions of X3. Each will open .bun & .cwb files copied from my old XP recording computer. But that's about as far as it goes. I can sometimes play the timeline, but some of the transport controls don't appear to be 'live', despite the fact that they work. And it will frequently freeze, requiring me to shut it down with task manager. Happens with both the 32 & 64 bit versions. Now, I'm filled with questions: 1) I'm having a little trouble even identifying which version of Sonar I have. I originally bought what was called Sonar X1 Essential. X2 also had the 'Essential' name when I bought it, but the next upgrade was simply called Sonar X3. The bottom line is, I'm not exactly certain which version I have anymore. I see that there's an LT version - is this simply Sonar X3, renamed by leaving out the 'Essential' from the name? If I look at the version number in the Help/About section, it shows Sonar X3 (X3a Build 209) 2) I saw references to a version e of Sonar X3, so thought that I might look for it. Clicking on 'Check for program updates' in my X3, returns a message that my software is up-to-date. So what the heck am I running? Sonar X3 Essential? Plain old Sonar X3? 3) What is the latest/most recent update for my product? 4) To attempt a fix, should I uninstall both the 32 & 64 bit versions, and then reinstall one or both? My system is 64-bit Win 7 Pro, with 16GB of RAM. The bundle files that I will importing were written on 32-bit versions of GT 2 through GT4 Pro, and Sonar X1 Essential. I wouldn't think it'd make a different, but... 5) Any other ideas? (more info happily-supplied, if requested...) Thanks, Chuck
System Specs: (updated Feb 2016) Sonar X3 Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit AMD Phenom X3 710 8GB RAM M-Audio Delta 1010LT, using ASIO Drivers
|
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13933
- Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/17 14:36:51
(permalink)
If you look in the help menu there is an "about" option which should (I think) tell you which version of Sonar you are running.
As for installing only one version, my instinct would be to do a complete uninstall of Sonar (including deleting all relevant registry entries - I'm sure there is a guide on how to do this somewhere) and to just install the 64-bit version. I'm sure there will be someone who chimes in that it's perfectly OK to have both 32-bit and 64-bit versions installed, but I'd avoid that if only to rule out any conflicts. I run the 64-bit version and I use 32-bit plugins without any difficulties, although there will certainly be the odd ancient plugin which doesn't work. Probably time to start thinking about the future and move on from 32-bit though - you won't be able to use all of your RAM unless you run the 64-bit version.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/17 15:09:52
(permalink)
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
cbrillow
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 75
- Joined: 2004/12/06 15:31:03
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/17 16:22:13
(permalink)
sharke If you look in the help menu there is an "about" option which should (I think) tell you which version of Sonar you are running. Thank you for your suggestions. With regard to your quotation listed above, I included that information in my original post: "If I look at the version number in the Help/About section, it shows Sonar X3 (X3a Build 209)" Probably will uninstall the 32-bit version and stick with the 64-bit -- if I can get it to work. Main reason for installing the 32-bit was to (maybe) be more compatible with the bundle files recorded in the older, 32-bit programs.
System Specs: (updated Feb 2016) Sonar X3 Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit AMD Phenom X3 710 8GB RAM M-Audio Delta 1010LT, using ASIO Drivers
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/17 16:27:08
(permalink)
cbrillow Main reason for installing the 32-bit was to (maybe) be more compatible with the bundle files recorded in the older, 32-bit programs.
The main reason for this is plugins, and not SONAR itself. I would (at least  ) do the update to X3e. All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
cbrillow
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 75
- Joined: 2004/12/06 15:31:03
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/17 16:37:15
(permalink)
Update: I tried the X3e download link again -- for the 4th time! -- and it worked. Thanks again for your attention. I'll let you know how it goes... Zargg71There is also an update to SONAR X3 (X3e) https://www.cakewalk.com/...13361/SONAR-X3e-Update Thanks for taking the time to respond to my query and for posting the link. I mentioned seeing the reference to the X3e update in my post, but was unsure whether my version was called Sonar X3 or Sonar X3 Essential, given its lineage from Sonar X1 Essential, which was the first version I used. I guess I have Sonar X3a, and would be happy to try the X3e update. Unfortunately for me, the download link on the page you referenced doesn't work. The other two links on that page - for the Studio and Producer updates are ok, but the one I need doesn't start a download dialog. Zargg71You could also take a look at SONAR Platinum, if you feel like looking into the future I don't need a full-blown, Pro-version, recording software. Guitar Tracks was totally adequate for my needs and this package has additional bells, whistles and complexity beyond that. I only want to make music-minus-one tracks for practicing with my band when they're not around.
post edited by cbrillow - 2016/02/17 16:56:17
System Specs: (updated Feb 2016) Sonar X3 Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit AMD Phenom X3 710 8GB RAM M-Audio Delta 1010LT, using ASIO Drivers
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/17 17:07:00
(permalink)
Did you try to log in at http://www.cakewalk.com/ ? If you have not done this recently (last year(s)), I would contact Cakewalk to get your account up and running. All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
cbrillow
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 75
- Joined: 2004/12/06 15:31:03
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/18 07:52:57
(permalink)
Hello, Ken. Once again, thanks for your input. To answer your question, yes, I was logged into my Cakewalk account when attempting the download. For whatever reason, only the Studio and Producer update links started download dialogs - the plain X3 link did not. But I went back and tried a fourth time, and got the download. Next, I uninstalled both the 32 & 64-bit versions and cleaned up the registry with CCLEANER. Then, I installed only the 64-bit version, followed by the 3e update. It is less problematic than the initial attempt, but I'm still not convinced that everything is ok. For one thing, when I read in a bundle file from an earlier version, there's quite a delay after the .wav files have been imported, before the interface becomes 'active'. In other words, some of the controls appear not to be selected. The time counter is blank, no screenset is selected, and all of the playback transport buttons appear inactive. If I hit 'Play', sometimes playback will start, sometimes it won't. I find that relocating the cursor/start position somewhere within the timeline will 'wake things up.' Changing to a different screenset will sometimes also get its attention. It does seem reliable enough that I may move my Delta 1010LT into this box and try out a recording with it. Although it doesn't make a lot of sense, maybe it will be more amenable to files recorded on this newer machine than it is importing bundles from different versions of older Cakewalk software. Take care, Chuck Zargg71 Did you try to log in at http://www.cakewalk.com/ ? If you have not done this recently (last year(s)), I would contact Cakewalk to get your account up and running. All the best.
System Specs: (updated Feb 2016) Sonar X3 Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit AMD Phenom X3 710 8GB RAM M-Audio Delta 1010LT, using ASIO Drivers
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/18 08:07:29
(permalink)
I had a M-Audio Delta 1010lt in Win7 for years, so you should be ok in that area. Do you use ASIO drivers? Have you tried to adjust your latency in SONAR, in Preferences (P), Audio, Playback And Recording. Is your "allocate files" set to anything other than 0 (will slow down that start of project, and is on the same page)? Hope it helps. All the best.
post edited by Zargg71 - 2016/02/18 08:21:52
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/18 08:12:42
(permalink)
And if your AI suddenly becomes unavailable, it could be due to connection problems of some sort. But it could also be due to taking time to unpack the .bundle, and copying all content to a new location. They can get quite big... All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
cbrillow
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 75
- Joined: 2004/12/06 15:31:03
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/18 11:01:07
(permalink)
Zargg71 I had a M-Audio Delta 1010lt in Win7 for years, so you should be ok in that area. Do you use ASIO drivers? Yes, I use ASIO drivers in the old Win XP Pro machine, in which the Delta is currently located. Today, I'll move it to the Windows 7 machine and see what happens. Zargg7 Have you tried to adjust your latency in SONAR, in Preferences (P), Audio, Playback And Recording. Is your "allocate files" set to anything other than 0 (will slow down that start of project, and is on the same page)? Hope it helps.
Given that I had no difficulty in setting it up in XP all those years ago, I don't recall these settings, or if I had to change anything. Seems like it just worked... I'll certainly keep these in mind as I try to get everything going in Windows 7, though. Thanks again, and --- cheers!
System Specs: (updated Feb 2016) Sonar X3 Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit AMD Phenom X3 710 8GB RAM M-Audio Delta 1010LT, using ASIO Drivers
|
cbrillow
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 75
- Joined: 2004/12/06 15:31:03
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/18 11:06:37
(permalink)
Zargg71 And if your AI suddenly becomes unavailable, it could be due to connection problems of some sort. But it could also be due to taking time to unpack the .bundle, and copying all content to a new location. They can get quite big...
My assumption was that the copying was finished when I'd get a popup about certain plugins not being available in this version of Sonar, and dismissed that dialog, but it still could be doing some kind of housekeeping, I guess. And, yep -- the bundle file for the current recording project consists of 6 tracks of audio for 13 songs, so it's pretty big. There are no extended jams -- they're all around 3 minutes -- but it's still quite a bit of data, not just one song's worth... Wish me luck!
System Specs: (updated Feb 2016) Sonar X3 Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit AMD Phenom X3 710 8GB RAM M-Audio Delta 1010LT, using ASIO Drivers
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/18 14:27:40
(permalink)
I used my 1010lt in both XP, Vista and Win 7. Let us know how it goes. All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
cbrillow
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 75
- Joined: 2004/12/06 15:31:03
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/19 18:58:01
(permalink)
I moved the Win 7 machine down into the music room yesterday, and methodically began swapping out parts from my video editing/recording XP system to the newer one, taking the time after each step to assure that the system would still boot and seemed to be operating correctly. When it came time to deal with the Delta 1010, I downloaded the most recent 64-bit Windows 7 drivers, plugged in the card and let her rip. No difficulty with the installation, and it came up in Sonar X3 without problems. I was somewhat surprised that Sonar didn't automatically run the profile routine on the 'new' card, which always seemed to happen automagically whenever I made a change in previous versions of Cakewalk recording programs. I loaded some of the bundle files that I'd previously tried, and experienced similar results. In most cases, I would load the bundle file, and then be patient, waiting for the UI to show some life. In some cases, it still seems like it's waiting for me to select something or try to play the file before it would spring to life. I'd usually save the project as a new cwp, which, of course, means that it will start up much faster the next time around. This is far more acceptable, and makes it seem like X3 is running almost as I'd expect it to. There are still a couple of weirdnesses, though. I haven't even pinned those down, yet - either they seem a little random/not repeatable, or my aging brain isn't capable of remembering and putting the pieces together to present logically, here. That's as far as I got yesterday, and I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, today. I haven't looked at buffers or latency settings, and have not yet tried to record anything. I've only tested playback.
System Specs: (updated Feb 2016) Sonar X3 Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit AMD Phenom X3 710 8GB RAM M-Audio Delta 1010LT, using ASIO Drivers
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/19 19:01:50
(permalink)
If SONAR seems unresponsive, check and make sure that there are no hidden windows behind waiting for your input. All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
bassman999
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 44
- Joined: 2007/11/09 10:04:20
- Location: UK
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/20 01:53:20
(permalink)
Chuck, I have a Delta 1010LT and it works just fine with Sonar Platinum on Windows 10, using Windows 7 64-bit ASIO drivers. Good luck
|
cbrillow
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 75
- Joined: 2004/12/06 15:31:03
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/20 07:15:32
(permalink)
Zarrg71 If SONAR seems unresponsive, check and make sure that there are no hidden windows behind waiting for your input.
No, that's not the case. At any rate, it seems that things have improved enough that it's something that I can live with for the moment. I really appreciate your suggestions! bassman999 I have a Delta 1010LT and it works just fine with Sonar Platinum on Windows 10, using Windows 7 64-bit ASIO drivers.
Thanks, bassman! That's certainly good information for future consideration. Nice to know somebody is able to use the Win 7 drivers with Windows 10. Surely, there must be others, as well! The other thing I haven't yet done is to look closely at the drivers that have been chosen by default. With XP - at least at one time in the past - I used ASIO drivers. (think it was ASIO-for-All, but I'm not sure...) As I recall, my new Sonar X3 installation selected MME drivers. I haven't looked at changing them, or even try to record with the system as-is. Maybe that's a project for today... I didn't investigate this situation extensively before deciding on my Win 7 machine for this use. It so happens that this particular machine is more capable than the one on which I currently have Windows 10, which is an older computer that was basically decommissioned. I loaded the Win 10 tech preview on it a couple of years ago, not knowing that Microsoft was going to allow it to legally become a Windows 10 machine at the end of the preview period. Had I known that, I would've installed it on a more capable hardware! The first thought was to put together a new box with a leftover copy of Windows 8 that I've been reserving for updating my XP video/music computer. Then I read about the lack of Windows 10 drivers for the Delta. Can't really justify a new multichannel audio interface, being a retiree who only dabbles in recording, especially when my 1010 works so well. Maybe I'll try it in one of my Win 8 machines, which could be easily updated to 10, for free...
System Specs: (updated Feb 2016) Sonar X3 Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit AMD Phenom X3 710 8GB RAM M-Audio Delta 1010LT, using ASIO Drivers
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/20 07:19:40
(permalink)
If you have ASIO4ALL, I would uninstall it. I used ASIO drivers on my 1010lt with luck. MME drivers will give you a bigger latency (at least when recording, IIRC). Try setting your ASIO buffer to 1024, and see if it helps. All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
cbrillow
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 75
- Joined: 2004/12/06 15:31:03
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/20 12:28:10
(permalink)
Don't have ASIO4ALL on the 'new' computer. And it's also possible that I was using ASIO4ALL on a different machine, for a different application. Just to satisfy my curiosity, I'll see if that's what I was using with the Delta on the XP machine. It's been too long and too many computers ago to remember, for certain... And, yes -- I need to change my system specs to reflect the newer hardware...
System Specs: (updated Feb 2016) Sonar X3 Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit AMD Phenom X3 710 8GB RAM M-Audio Delta 1010LT, using ASIO Drivers
|
cbrillow
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 75
- Joined: 2004/12/06 15:31:03
- Status: offline
Re: Longtime -- but only occasional -- user deeply mired in confusion
2016/02/20 15:28:26
(permalink)
Baby steps... Ok, changed driver mode to ASIO, and the M-Audio ASIO drivers show up in both the input and output categories. Did a very short record test, one channel only. Seems to work ok. Hoping that there will be no more surprises... (Also noticed that my system specs already indicated that I was using the M-Audio ASIO drivers, not ASIO4All! Sheesh...)
post edited by cbrillow - 2016/02/20 15:47:25
System Specs: (updated Feb 2016) Sonar X3 Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit AMD Phenom X3 710 8GB RAM M-Audio Delta 1010LT, using ASIO Drivers
|