Looking for Audio Interface to run Sonar

Should check this thread IMO
http://forum.cakewalk.com...lk-to-me-m3579834.aspx

You want the mixer too?  Look at the Behringer x32 or the ufx 1604

I love my Roland Studio Capture. 12 combo xlr in, an  additional 4 1/4" in, 1 rca digital in and out, 8 1/4" outputs.  Midi 5 pin in and out.  Ability to daisy chain 2 together.  $800.00 street.  Win 10 plug and play.  No nonsense install with great quality mic preamps and nice ui.  I recently upgraded from an old EMU 1820 which was quite a workhorse.  Roland Studio Capture still blows me away.  I'm a garage band guitar and bass player not heavy on synths but I'm sold on the Studio Capture.  Hope its of some benefit. 
 
 

Before I bought the Studio Capture, I was concerned that a new usb3 compatible interface was coming to market and sure enough, the tascam line has one and so do others that I can't remember. Not Roland.  No 3.0, 3.1 or any discussion of an upgrade.
 
I was checking out what usb 3.0 and 3.1 was really about awhile back and thunderbolt was part of the discussion.  As far as I can tell, USB 3.0 means you don't have to worry about which way you plug in the cable right side up or upside down, it doesn't matter, but no improvement in transfer rate.  USB 3.1 however means a truly improved transfer rate akin to thunderbolt.  Apparently, there is some connection between the 2.  Just wondering if drivers that are usb 3.1 compatible might just be thunderbolt drivers in disguise.  I'm not a programmer in the least but I distinctly remember reading about the usb 3.1 and thunderbolt connection. 
 
All that being said, the transfer rate has not been an issue with Roland's older 2.0 usb connection.  The drivers from Roland for win 10 are spot on from what I can tell.  Roland Studio Capture and Sonar splat running on a win 10 laptop are getting along fine.  I'm not pushing my system at all playing guitar and bass though TH3 Overloud and some effects.  But I am running an entire 5 piece band into the studio capture with all 12 xlrs being used and 2 of the 1/4" inputs used for the keyboards and no dropout problems.  Heavy hardware synth projects you are running may have all kinds of issues of which I am unaware.
 
So maybe there are thunderbolt drivers coming that would work as there is a push in the consumer market for USB 3.1.  Just something to investigate before you drop  serious cash. 

vladasyn
 
I am not Behringer type of person, not that I don't trust it- just not inspiring for me.
 

I understand your hesitance with the Behringer brand name. FWIW I had a Presonus Studio Live and purchased an x32 Producer as a second desk. A week later I sold the Presonus and bought a second X32 (Rack version). Pretty hard to beat both sound and feature wise in the entry level digital desk price range.
 
That said, I use an RME Fireface FX for studio use that leaves both the Presonus and Behringer for dead in recording quality and driver latency. Not as well suited for live sound though as it's FX are underwhelming to say the least.

How many inputs do you need?  The Motu AVB series is expandable through ethernet connections.  They had some driver issues last year, but it looks like they are beyond those now.  I am planning on getting one later this year.

Using the new MOTU AVB series with lots of I/O here. 2x 1248 plus ADAT interface (plus if needed also the traveling unit UltraLite). Extremely happy with the options (sound, routing, DSP mixes, networking, etc.). I have virtually all my outboard and synths cabled up and ready to go ... it is like a gigantic console over only 3x 1 rack unit. 
 
The AVB networking is brilliant and works like charm. If you can afford it I would recommend it. Units like the 1248 (or the 16A which you may need) are >1500$ a piece and if you need a lot of I/O you might need 2 or 3 of them. But the system is perfectly scalable, meaning you can buy one now and other later. I actually added the UltraLite lately as it has sufficient I/O for my traveling/live synth rack and when back in the studio all it takes is a single LAN cable to have it all hooked to the studio racks.

vladasyn
Thank you for all replies. This is new computer and my Presonus Studiolive 24 does not work with it because they did not sign drivers with Windows 10, they may do it one day but nobody knows when or IF they will. Their support is not very helpful. After 3 e-mails they told me, sorry, they can not help me. I called few times, they told me- there is no need to call any more- they will not help. Check back for the driver update that may or may not happen one day.
 
I still strongly considering new Presonus 32 channels board, but the weird thing is they have 16 combo  1/4" and XLR channels, but 16 only XLR, and I don't know if it would accept line input if it unbalanced. And what is with 44.1kHz and 48kHz sample rates? I kind of felt like getting some Class A gear, but not at Protools HD price. Actually Universal Audio is very expansive. I hope their interfaces better than their headphones.
 
I am not Behringer type of person, not that I don't trust it- just not inspiring for me.
 
Just xcalled Asus for my Motherboard and they told me they don't have driver for Thunderbolt card. So I guess if I want Thunderbolt, I would have to wait for their drivers. And while waiting for Thunderbolt, I may as well wait for Presonus. Just saying. This is frustrating.
 
 

Sorry for your problems with Presonus support! To answer your question about the inputs, there are 16 Mic inputs and 16 Mic/Line Inputs. The Mic/Line inputs on the StudioLive can also accept line-level signals. These inputs use TRS-XLR combo jacks that can accept both XLR and balanced or unbalanced 1/4” cables. The ¼-inch TRS connectors bypass the gain stage and are scaled to accept line-level signals up to +18 dBFS.
 
Here is a link to the manual if you want to check the other features:
 
http://www-media-presonus.netdna-ssl.com/downloads/products/pdf/StudioLiveSeriesIII_OwnersManual_14022017.pdf
 
Take care,
 
h

What is going on with my thread? I posted long reply yesterday, it was there at first, then it disappeared. Then I used Back function, copied it and posted it again, it would not post. Then I typed something to make sure not everything is just copy/paste, and it posted. I saw it there last night. And it disappeared again today! This is strange. Was trying to post it again and it would not post but "Why cant I post" above did posted.
 
hBarton, what are the Mic inputs used for? (Other than mics)? Can it be used for line signal if I had TRS to XLR cable? Otherwise- they would be useless for me. What a waist of real estate! I just watched video on new StduoLive 32. All these features... are nice if you doing live gigs with the band. I just need to connect bunch of hardware keyboards. Currently I have all 24 ports taken (Mic, Guitar and 10 synths/keyboards, plus electronic drum set). I need ONE mic input, not 16. Also I have no use for motorized faders, remore iPad control or onboard effects. I tried their reverb for vocals. It is alright but I would not record vocals with oit. May be compressor could be useful...
 
I am actually thinking- I may end up keeping presonus 24 and use it as a patch bay, running its output in to what ever audio interface I select. It is not ideal, but I don't use hardware that much now days, so for those occasions where I want to record one track from hardware synths, it can go through Presonus in to let's say MOTU... Also In that video they said, "Connect AVB to AVB port on Mac- now all new Macs come with AVB ports". What is AVB port? I thought it was Ethernet-like port that connects in regular Ethernat port on ANY computer.
 
So with MOTU... AVB series: on Windows, I would be using Ethernet port? The 1248 model is Thunderbolt- AVB. Looks like AVB is to connect more than one unit in chain, not to connect to computer? Will still need Thunderbolt (will have to wait for that Thunderbolt card). What 256 inputs and outputs they talking about? (128in, 128out)?
 
Thunderbolt (compatible with 1 and 2) Here is already a problem: I am waiting for Thunderbolt 3 card, when driver for it available, I don't know if it will be compatible with TB 1 and 2.
 
1 x USB 2.0 audio class compliant
      USB 3.0 and iOS compatible
1 x AVB Ethernet (requires OS X Yosemite)- Does it means- AVB will only work on Mac? (It does not say Windows 10).
 
Antelope Audio Orion32 HD 64-channel HDX and USB3 AD/DA Interface
https://www.sweetwater.co...splay&utm_term=2x2
Looks like it supports Windows. Here is Antelope web site. What are those connections- looking like female serial ports- how do you stick TRS in to it? The price is intimidating. $3,500- is it that good? How good can it get? My Ultra 8R sounds relatively good, and it coast $700 back when it was available. how is $3,500 sounds?
http://en.antelopeaudio.com/products/orion32-hd/
 
Thank you, all.

You mention the StudioLive is good for live bands but not for your situation. I think that it's a pretty good assessment - it was designed exactly for that. Your patchbay idea isn't so strange. Do you really need that many simultaneous recording channels? Or do you just like the convenience of having everything plugged in?

Hi vladasyn,

The Presonus SL 32 has 16 mic ins and 16 combo mic/line, so I don't think it give you the I/O you need. Your idea of using your Presous 24 channel board as a patch bay would probably work, but my suggestion would be to call a place like Sweetwater and talk to one of their sales techs and explain your setup/difficulties and what you are trying to set up. A few minutes spent talking with them may end up saving a bunch of money and not have you go down the "gear rat hole."  

AVB stands for Audio Video Bridging and at a simple level it is a protocol developed by the IEEE enables audio and video signals to be transmitted over a dedicated section of Ethernet bandwidth. Maybe that didn't sound simple - sorry. By the way, if you wanted to go the AVB route with the Presonus board, the only AVB switch they are presently supporting is a the $400 Motu AVB switch (which add more to your costs).

For me, I purchased the SL32 because I mostly use Studio One for recording and it and is designed for that DAW (and the track count works for me). I also still have my old setup which consists of a Focusrite Liquid 56 and two Berhinger ADA8200 connected via ADAT which gives me up to 24 mic or line inputs. This might be a solution for you and it looks like one of the Motu units have ADAT I/O so it should allow you to expand the I/O (similar to my Focusrite).

Hope that helps, but seriously, I would talk to an expert to get the best advice for your needs.

Take care,

h

A couple of points:
- The audio interface has no effect at all on the internal sound processing Sonar or any of your softsynths do. The only place where sound quality of softsynths comes into play is the DA conversion. It is doubtful you'd be able to hear the difference between the various mentioned medium and upmarket devices, although really cheap devices can sound flat and lifeless.
- Latency is where the audio interface and its drivers come into play. While Thunderbolt can in theory do better than USB, really the drivers make a huge difference. E.g. my RME UCX gets 2.9ms roundtrip at the lowest buffer setting and even their own new Thunderbolt enabled interface the UFX+ shows that USB is no slower than Thunderbolt. It's the track count that's the bottleneck. If you don't record a huge amount of tracks at the same time there really is no reason to go for Thunderbolt specifically.

- Latency will always be affected by certain plugins, independent of which audio interface you use. E.g. limiters with a look ahead function, pitch correction plugins, convolution reverbs and linear phase EQs all induce significant amount of latency simply because of the way they work, you can't really change that. When such a plugin is inserted on one track, Sonar will delay all the other tracks by the same amount in order to line up everything correctly on playback. During recording, you can get around this by hitting the PDC (Plugin Delay Compensation) button, which disables this artificial delay for the track you're actively monitoring. This only works if you don't have any of those delay-inducing plugins on the signal chain of that track, of course. Again, this has nothing to do with the quality of the interface, it is necessitated by the process.
EDIT: good point about Nectar having a tracking/mixing switch. Some plugins do. Linear phase EQs usually have a non linear mode too, and Waves makes a "live" version of their convolution reverb IR1 if you want to use it during tracking. /EDIT

I would also concur with hbarton that it would be a good idea to talk with a store representative to see if you can get an easier way to hook up a bunch of synths without needing a million inputs on your interface. You can only spend your money once and it seems like a waste. Traditionally, what you're describing is solved by having a patch bay - as an example, you would have all of your synths plugged into the backside of a patchbay, say on the top row. Then you hook up your interface inputs to the backside of the patchbay as well, but on the bottom row. Now you can use short patch cables to quickly patch any synth to any input on your interface, all from your comfortable desk chair.

The PDC button is at the top in your control bar.

I guess your M-Audio would in theory be a step "below" some of the mentioned interfaces like RME and UAD, but if you think the sound quality is good and you get low enough latency (before using those plugins like we talked about) I don't think there's any reason to spend thousands of bucks on something else. Again, the interface quality has nothing to do with the quality of processing inside the box, though obviously everything that comes out of your speaker has gone through its DA conversion.

You say you already hardly use your hardware synths but if you want them hooked up for peace of mind a patchbay seems more than sufficient. It is indeed an "extra" bit of gear between the computer and the synths but it doesn't do any processing and with line level signals like from your synths it really won't have a significant impact on sound quality. Maybe not buy the very cheapest you can find, but that tends to go for everything.

Also, tell your partner to shut up. Whole albums have been made on laptop soundcards for crying out loud, especially when they're based on softsynths.

I don't know what kind of work you do mostly, you say you record vocals but not much else. If you really want to spend some money and upgrade, perhaps invest in a nice analog channel strip for your vocals. Or, if you get a stereo one, you can also use it for your synths. Or upgrade your monitoring, or treat your room, etc. etc.
In other words, if you're basically happy with the operation of your M-Audio and you don't even need the "best-you-can-buy" recording quality (because you don't record that much), there are a ton of things to spend money on that will do a lot more for improving your sound and your experience in the studio.

Well if you put a patchbay where the Presonus is now you can leave all those cables where they are. Put your soundcard on top of it and use patchcables to hook up whichever hardware synth you want to record to whichever input you want to use. If the inputs are on the back or hard to reach you can hook them up to the patchbay too and use a patchcable to connect a synth to an input.

If you're still worried about the soundquality and want something beyond doubt you could get perhaps a smaller RME interface like a Babyface or an UCX, but the principle with the patchbay remains the same.

Behringer's PX3000 is a perfectly good TRS patchbay. All jack patchbars are is a bunch of TRS sockets in a rack case and the connections betwen them. You can spend a fortune on them, but there's little point. They really are very basic, simple things. Not much to go wrong really.

As for what plugs into what, you might find it more productive to download a few manuals for interfaces you're interested in than post questions here. The answers to many of your questions are in the manuals.

As for how you plug TRS leads into the mic pres on most interfaces, the XLR sockets on most interfaces usually have a TRS jack socket in the centre of the XLR one. They're combined sockets usable for both and the interface and its software sort out the signal flow. There may be interfaces that only have XLRs, bit you'd need to check their manuals for that information.