• SONAR
  • The psychology of the wallet - and a whole lot about VCA's... (p.14)
2016/04/30 02:22:07
RD9
John
 
There is another reason I like this new model.  I feel more involved in the ongoing programing of Sonar. Its as if I'm in there with the team deciding what feature will come next.  
 .....
Its all in the way one choose to look at things.     




I think John makes an important point about why many users enjoy Sonar.  The updates/upgrades are now an integral part of their workflow and they like it. In a recent unofficial poll on this Forum more than 2/3 of the respondents said they preferred the Monthly update approach to Quarterly or Yearly. 
 
With respect to the value for money; I agree with those above who suggested we take a look at the year as a whole since we are really paying for a year;  I suspect that most users, myself included, would find that Cakewalk has given us our money's worth.
 
In my case, however, I do not enjoy the monthly disruptions and would like my DAW to stay stagnant for a year (except for bug fixes) so I can get on with things.   I am well aware of Craig's argument that we don't need to update but remember, if you don't update then 1) the Forum becomes less useful since most users will have moved on and 2) you can't get the bug fixes alone.   For this reason, and for the improved MIDI editing capability (IMHO), I am slowly moving my work into Cubase.
 
There are a lot of very good DAWs on the market and Sonar is one of them.  It is then a matter of preference.
 
Cheers
2016/04/30 03:16:29
tenfoot
Anderton
tenfoot
I can't for the life of me understand how people can complain about the cost of Sonar.



They never had to buy reels of tape 




Haha - oh so very true!
2016/04/30 05:41:39
lfm
mettelus
For me, the crux of this situation has been mentioned briefly, but doesn't often get considered. Most people buy a product for "what it is" at the time of purchase, not for "what it might become." Only service industries can get away with such a strategy, but this would never fly in products - no one will buy a guitar without pickups or a car without tires because they "might come" in the next year. I happen to consider SONAR a product, and since "subscription" gets beaten down readily, others would confirm this.
 

Basically how I work also, what is there as new when I pay again decides - and started this thread because of it and to see if I was the odd one or if there is good feedback for Cakewalk how to proceed.
 
I felt I was a bit like Scrooge McDuck - just waiting in the car for the parking meter to expire, since he paid for it.
 
Looking at upgrade options when patchpoints came, and no alternative since I had four months paid updates still on Artist. So membership kept me from updating to Professional.
 
So maybe some discount when you do overlapping upgrades or something like that is the psychology of the wallet. 
 
And when time to renew/upgrade - knowing patchpoints are there, the news had cooled off somehow.
And looking for good enough notation all summer and fall, I had gone for another daw already.
 
mettelus

 
One thing that occurred to me recently (and what ultimately bothers me) is that SONAR is a host application first and foremost, and as such should be impeccable as a host (i.e., the things no VST can ever do for it). Functionality, usability, exception handling (big one), optimization, et al. should be the #1 priority above all else IMO. Everyone loves a good host.


I would reason that way too, since I already have all plugins I need in the foreseeable future.
The daw is a holder of clips and plugins - and assist in making edits to finalize result and workflow for doing that decides which daw is preferred.
Since plugins are the tools for creating your sound more than anything - the daw can be replaced more easily if plugins are 3rd party and not stock plugins.
So core daw features are important.
 
But product line is rather sensible still, I find. Really good value entry point with Artist, with Professional all features almost without paying for too many plugins and libraries, and then Platinum for those that like as many plugins and libraries they can get. And to keep flagship Platinum members happy they have to release new plugin stuff all the time - which seems to be much appreciated too.
 
But since my approach is headroom/freedom and flexibility having plugins 3rd party - I feel some resistance when more plugin stuff is added than core daw features. That said, 2015 was incredible still in daw improvements - mixrecall, upsampling and patchpoints biggies to me. So I keep one eye open to see what arrives in Sonar in future.
2016/04/30 06:14:11
pwalpwal
mettelus
Should retitle this thread "Why no VCAs in SONAR?" The OP and where it is truly focused are misleading. Nice original title, but this thread is VCAs.

respectfully disagree - the thread title matches the op, and the op repeatedly asked posters to stay on topic, but yet again the usual suspects have steered the thread off course, onto VCAs, even when the op is repeatedly pointing out the VCA thread on F&R forum (which is where it should be)...
 
hosts especially are supposed to keep threads on topic!
2016/04/30 06:44:19
pwalpwal
Anderton
microapp
Gibson Credit Downgrade
https://www.moodys.com/re...is-negative--PR_344915
http://www.musicrow.com/2...s-to-credit-downgrade/



"Gibson's Caa1 Corporate Family Rating considers its weak liquidity profile, soft credit metrics and the highly discretionary nature of its musical instrument and consumer electronics product lines. Demand for these products was dampened by the deterioration in discretionary consumer spending during the last few years and was exasperated by the poor consumer reception of its 2015 guitar models."

a slight misunderstanding there i think, which gives subtly different meaning. The statement is "highly discretionary nature of its musical instrument and consumer electronics product lines." so not just musical instruments. It was exacerbated ("made worse") by the poor performance of instruments and electronics, not caused by it. So your follow up comments about guitars are made irrelevant by that misunderstanding
 
Gibson only just bought Philips consumer electronics 2 years ago, and it's failing already? And this is/was done by the guy brought in from Philips to oversee this, no wonder he's out already
 
Ignoring the "weak liquidity" and "soft credit metrics" comment makes it seem you think the whole situation is caused solely by last year's guitar models, which seems a stretch as best. Do you honestly think that?
 
I think getting into arguing the business side of things in a music forum might not be the best approach, and at the very least should be in the coffee house...
 
aota is fwiw/imo, etc
2016/04/30 09:04:03
azslow3
Anderton
If someone said "Well since Cakewalk won't give me what I want at the price I want to pay, I'm just going to go to a torrent and get the stuff for free," that would be a very different matter altogether.

What about that: "Well since Cakewalk won't give me what I paid for, I'm just going to a torrent and get the stuff which is not calling home and say I am not legit user".
 
That just has happened to me... DEMO MODE. I am not a "pro", so I was not on stage and I was not working with clients. I was recording a tutorial how to use Control Surfaces with Sonar.
 
THEY DO NOT TRUST ME. I have paid for Sonar upright, but they still "checking" me all the time. So the claim "if you pay for Sonar upright you can use it as long as you want" is NOT true! Sonar will continue to check and any time its buggy code think I am a "bad boy" it immediately pop-up with "Demo mode. Contact support.". THEY DO NOT TRUST ME. And after that, should I trust they deliver something useful "next year"? Should I think "they are nice"? "Support" them? Sorry, NO!
 
2016/04/30 09:54:48
mettelus
azslow3
 
That just has happened to me... DEMO MODE. I am not a "pro", so I was not on stage and I was not working with clients. I was recording a tutorial how to use Control Surfaces with Sonar.
 


A few ancillary comments, the first triggered by the above.
  1. Field failures are the #1 way for a company to give itself a black eye and create negative marketing that can never be "bought" back, specifically word-of-mouth advertising. *If* I relied on any income or had clients relying on me to do things for them, the DEMO-mode issue would scare the crap out of me (gross understatement actually). The decision to make support more difficult just adds fuel to this fire. Of all the people to tick off, you hit one who is busting his ass to make SONAR better for free - congratulations.
  2. "Innovation" gets thrown around so much anymore that the word has lost meaning. For me it has fallen into the same bin as "gimmick;" but the extension of it (which is truly fearful in business) is "disruptive innovation," specifically those things that already exist or have existed for a long time. My personal favorite is Wii - technology that existed for decades - created to tap a market of gamers never tapped before (older and female). Highly successful and cheap as dirt, so cheap that they made profit on the simple sale of the initial unit, where all competition sold the unit as a loss and "hoped" to sell games to make up for it. From a SONAR perspective, tempo maps could have been introduced in X3, and been extended to "map track to master" similar to AS - syncing audio to MIDI is a thorn everyone deals with at some point, and the "innovation" has been there.
  3. Listening to the users. I had posted a video regarding listening/conversation earlier, and the real point to the entire video is "Most people listen to respond, they do not listen to understand." Unfortunately, when those listening to respond are also biased to that response, they will never understand... they assume what they didn't hear and cater their response accordingly; in essence, no "conversation" ever took place... as the video stated "You are just two people talking remotely related topics with each other." Simple advice, if a user tells you they want something, they will pay you for it... Astute advice, if a company listens and takes it one step further (i.e., exceed expectations), they create a fierecely loyal customer base that grows exponentially... by word of mouth.
There isn't anyone who offers feedback here in hopes to see Cakewalk fail!!! Yet the ones driving this train in that direction continue to attack these people who are investing their time in "hope" of being not only heard, but listened to. Once that resource goes "offline," surveys aren't going to cut it one iota.
 
2016/04/30 10:39:57
Anderton
azslow3
 
That just has happened to me... DEMO MODE. I am not a "pro", so I was not on stage and I was not working with clients. I was recording a tutorial how to use Control Surfaces with Sonar.
 
THEY DO NOT TRUST ME. I have paid for Sonar upright, but they still "checking" me all the time. So the claim "if you pay for Sonar upright you can use it as long as you want" is NOT true! Sonar will continue to check and any time its buggy code think I am a "bad boy" it immediately pop-up with "Demo mode. Contact support.". THEY DO NOT TRUST ME. And after that, should I trust they deliver something useful "next year"? Should I think "they are nice"? "Support" them? Sorry, NO!

 
Yes, I agree that really sucks, and it has happened to more people than you. However to be fair it was a bug that was in the list of fixes for the April release so hopefully that's the end of it.
 
 
 
 
2016/04/30 10:59:08
mettelus
Anderton
azslow3
 
That just has happened to me... DEMO MODE. I am not a "pro", so I was not on stage and I was not working with clients. I was recording a tutorial how to use Control Surfaces with Sonar.
 
THEY DO NOT TRUST ME. I have paid for Sonar upright, but they still "checking" me all the time. So the claim "if you pay for Sonar upright you can use it as long as you want" is NOT true! Sonar will continue to check and any time its buggy code think I am a "bad boy" it immediately pop-up with "Demo mode. Contact support.". THEY DO NOT TRUST ME. And after that, should I trust they deliver something useful "next year"? Should I think "they are nice"? "Support" them? Sorry, NO!

 
Yes, I agree that really sucks, and it has happened to more people than you. However to be fair it was a bug that was in the list of fixes for the April release so hopefully that's the end of it.
 



Unless I misconstrued Alexey's other post, this did occur in the April release. Only he can confirm such.
2016/04/30 11:23:30
Sanderxpander
If there is going to be any kind of envelope linking at all I would really like it if it extended beyond just volume. E.g. when I need to automate a Sonitus delay or a Z3TA+ dual filter I always have to create two curves even though the delay L/R side or Z3TA+ filters are linked. I would really like a better way to do this and I don't think "traditional" VCA faders are the solution. 
© 2026 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account